Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
Jan 17, 2009 04:47 PM
by christinaleestemaker
Also Deepak Chopra unveiled the true Jesuz.
--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Martin <Mvandertak@...> wrote:
>
> Sai Blabla speaks on Jesus
> ISBN: 90-902-0360-5
> Compiler Luc Courtois
>
>
> --- On Sat, 1/17/09, Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@...>
wrote:
> From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@...>
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Saturday, January 17, 2009, 11:16 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear friends and Martin
>
>
>
> My views are:
>
>
>
> Sorry if I sound a bit confused, because was it not you who sought
to use words by Sathya Sai Baba on Jesus as a proof on that Sathya
Sai Baba was what you call a "fake"?
>
>
>
> So far I have only been offered your "feelings" now transformed
into a "Heart" as a proof on that Sathya Sai Baba was what you call a
"fake".
>
>
>
> Please, what was the actual title on that book about Jesus, which
you say Sathya Sai Baba have written, where you claim to have found
proof?
>
>
>
> Yes agreed, there are discrepancies between the theosophical
teachings given by H. P. Blavatsky and the ones given by Sathya Sai
Baba with regard to Jesus life and teachings.
>
>
>
> What I have is for instance the following:
>
>
>
> 1.
>
> Jesus was born year 120 bc. in Lydda /Lod says H. P. Blavatsky.
>
> Sathya Sai Baba have according to a number of devotees and authors
several times said that he was born year 0 in the december. BUT,
those saying this are most of the time westerners and not Sathya Sai
Baba himself. But look in the below links.
>
>
>
> As far as I remember, one can find a quote on Sathya Sai Baba
saying:
>
> Jesus died on the croos, but resurrected, and really died in
Kashmir year 115 a.d. and was in fact a promotor of Mahayana Buddhism.
>
>
>
> What is important is not whether Sathya Sai Baba is worshipped or
another idol or thought of an Avatar, which you call God, so says the
man from India. Jesus, Buddha, Krishna and other Avatars can be used,
no problem there. It is your actions and deeds or lack of deeds,
which are important.
>
>
>
> 2. The following I find to be close to the truth, though we can
discuss, why the events occured:
>
>
>
> "As stated at the beginning of this article, the first fleeting
mention of Jesus in the Discourses does not occur until Christmas
1970. SB was already aged 44. This was a crucial time in the
development of the Organisation when Western interest was
accelerating considerably. Subsequent more detailed mentions of Jesus
by SB came at Christmas 1971, 1972, 1976, 1978, and almost annually
to date as more and more Westerners flocked to Puttaparthi for
Christmas."
>
>
>
> "SB's main emphasis, and his references to Jesus elsewhere, is not
on Jesus as a full Avatar"
>
>
>
> "However, in the references that follow, there is a bewildering
series of discrepancies and inconsistencies regarding the
participants at the birth of Jesus, His life and travels, His
statements, and His father's death, and even the date. For much of
this, as with so many aspects of the Sai Baba story, there is an
unfortunate lack of documentary evidence. But the facts themselves
are not so important, since even Christian theologians are endlessly
arguing about them and there have also been several serious scholarly
books which attempt to disprove the physical existence of Jesus
Christ. As far as the credibility of the allegedly omniscient Sai
Baba is concerned, it is the confusion, the discrepancies and the
continual variations on themes which are damaging."
>
> http://bdsteel. tripod.com/ More/Jesus1. htm
>
>
>
> Based on my own experiences, Jesus was not a full Avatar, at least
in the sense that he was only blended with the Avatar principle
during a certain part of his physical incarnation. If one read H. P.
Blavatsky carefully, one will find that she also seems to agree on
this view.
>
> Sai Baba says that he was pure without mistakes, and elsewhere he
says, that Jesus developed during his incarnation, and heard a voice
guiding him at one time or other.
>
>
>
> 3.
>
> "Do not talk ill of any one with contempt, do not think of any one
as low or mean. Christ
>
> declared, "All are One; be alike to everyone." Hating an
individual, or institution, or a religion is
>
> a low act."
>
> (Sathya Sai Speaks, vol. 12, p. 72 - edited by N. Kasturi)
>
> http://www.sathyasa i.org/search/ volume12/ sss12.pdf
>
>
>
> 4.
>
> "Jesus was a person whose only joy was in spreading Divine Love,
offering Divine Love,
>
> receiving Divine Love and living on Divine Love.
>
> There are various theories about the birth date of Jesus based on
the 'bright star that appeared at his birth.' It is visible once in
800 years, it is said. Some say he was born on the fifteenth day of
September. But, he was born at 3-15 a.m. (early morning) on December
28, 1980 years ago. It was Sunday. The Star that appeared that day
appears only once in 800 years. Its appearance had nothing to do with
the birth of Jesus. There is no rule that, when Divine Energy or
Divine Incarnation descends on Earth, a star has to appear. That is
the opinion of devotees only. But, Jesus was himself a 'Star' of
infinite value, spreading brialliance of infinite dimension. Why
posit another less brilliant glow?"
>
> ...
>
> "We are true Christians only when we live according to the
teachings of Christ and practise them in daily life."
>
> (Sathya Sai Speaks, vol. 14, p. 153 - edited by N. Kasturi)
>
> http://www.sathyasa i.org/search/ volume14/ sss14.pdf
>
>
>
> But this passage have been edited by N. Kasturi, and perhaps it is
a mistake.
>
> H. P. Blavatsky flatly disagreed upon this view, and her Masters as
well.
>
>
>
> - - -
>
> 5.
>
> About smoking:
>
> "One bad habit that has taken deep root in this area is the smoking
of tobacco, an evil that is fast becoming universal. It destroys
aarogyam, aanandham, uthsaaham (health, happiness, energy) and even
andham (charm). Smoke will not quench your thirst or fill the hungry
stomach. It disfigures your face and denigrates your lungs. It
debilitates you and makes you diseased. Control yourself and do not
yield to the snares of friends or society or, what is miscalled
social convention, and become a prey to this and other bad habits."
>
> (Sathya Sai Speaks, vol. 1, p. 73 eller 87 - edited by N. Kasturi
or Indulal Shah)
>
> http://www.sathyasa i.org/search/ volume14/ sss14.pdf
>
>
>
> At another place in 1994:
>
> "Cigarettes have a poison nicotine, which is dangerous and leaves
marks in the nerves of the body. In addition to nicotine, carbon
monoxide is also present in the smoke. These spoil the lungs, and
cause heart diseases and cancer. (Swami shows his white
handkerchief. ) ...When the lungs, blood vessels and nerves are thus
affected, it is difficult to control the senses."
>
> (Sai News Australia , IV, Spring & Summer 1994, 4 - now
discontinued)
>
>
>
> - - -
>
> 6.
>
> This is a good place to search info on what Sathya Sai Baba
actually said, and not what romours put down his mouth. These books
are near 100% in accordance to what Sathya Sai Baba said:
>
>
>
> >>> Sathya Sai Speaks - Searchable Discourses - edited by N.
Kasturi and Indulal Shah <<<
>
> http://www.sathyasa i.org/search
>
>
>
> Seeking a more balanced view.
>
>
>
> - - -
>
> There are four types of persons---those who see only right
everywhere, those who are less spiritual in their vision and so see
right as right and wrong as wrong, those who shut their eyes to right
and see only wrong and lastly, the worst of all, those who judge even
the right to be wrong.
>
>
>
> Other views?
>
>
>
> M. Sufilight
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Martin
>
> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>
> Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 1:46 AM
>
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
>
>
>
> Morten,
>
> not to be too harsh on you:
>
> I could change the word feeling into the word heart, so my heart
has never betrayed me. Ok with you now?
>
> Also, why interested in Jesus? The guy never exsisted as put down
in the Bible ( or By-baäl ).
>
> All religion has but one cause, the reflection of people's minds
on the effect of Nature in them and around them. That Nature is
called Love in Harmony, which on Itself is a reflection of Truth
which is the Mirror-Shield ( or the Middle of the Balance ) of the
Unknown or Parabrahm or Paramapadatmawa ( beyond the Spirit or Atma ).
>
>
>
> --- On Sat, 1/17/09, Martin <Mvandertak@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
> From: Martin <Mvandertak@yahoo. com>
>
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
>
> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>
> Date: Saturday, January 17, 2009, 12:11 AM
>
>
>
> Dear Morten:
>
>
>
> you know nothing about my feeling nor what I mean with feeling...so
MY feeling is not in discussion, judgement is different to prejudice
as is richness from Love.
>
>
>
> Baba wrote a book about Jesus, google will help...
>
>
>
> --- On Fri, 1/16/09, Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@
stofanet. dk> wrote:
>
>
>
> From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
>
>
>
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
>
>
>
> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>
>
>
> Date: Friday, January 16, 2009, 9:15 PM
>
>
>
> Dear friends and Martin
>
>
>
> My views are:
>
>
>
> Martin wrote:
>
>
>
> "However when we claim ourselves out in the open being an avatar
and proof otherwise, it is a lot harder to get back on track. "
>
>
>
> Agreed.
>
>
>
> Martin wrote:
>
>
>
> "And of course there are avatars and Avatars...Avatars of Light and
of Darkness even...the most difficult to find are those disguised as
dugpa's, the easiest who are disguised as 'avatars'"
>
>
>
> Agreed.
>
>
>
> Martin wrote:
>
>
>
> "My feeling ( which have never betrayed me )"
>
>
>
> That is wrong.
>
>
>
> Feeling always betray anyone who is not an Avatar himsefl or
herself.
>
>
>
> You cannot base your judgement on mere "feeling" and no evidence.
That is bad Wisdom teaching.
>
>
>
> Can we hear that story about Jesus?
>
>
>
> (There are several of them, you know.)
>
>
>
> M. Sufilight
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
>
> From: Martin
>
>
>
> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>
>
>
> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 8:52 PM
>
>
>
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
>
>
>
> Hi Morten:
>
>
>
> If we consider ourselves to be only temporary human, we could say
we are all avatars. As soon as we attach ourselves to being human, we
become human...then perfect human..buddha. .and again avatar. However
when we claim ourselves out in the open being an avatar and proof
otherwise, it is a lot harder to get back on track. And of course
there are avatars and Avatars...Avatars of Light and of Darkness
even...the most difficult to find are those disguised as dugpa's, the
easiest who are disguised as 'avatars'... My feeling ( which have
never betrayed me ) tells me this Sai Baba is a fake in spite of all
his nice words ( copied from books ); read his story on Jesus and you
know this guy is completely gone...
>
>
>
> --- On Fri, 1/16/09, Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@
stofanet. dk> wrote:
>
>
>
> From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
>
>
>
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
>
>
>
> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>
>
>
> Date: Friday, January 16, 2009, 8:24 PM
>
>
>
> Yes. I am aware of this.
>
>
>
> And I do find it strange, that Sathya Sai Baba, who is naming
himself an
>
>
>
> Avatar of the Age are allowing these accusations to pass, without
doing more
>
>
>
> about it.
>
>
>
> My problem is, that the India Court have reject any atempts of
lawsauits
>
>
>
> against him so far du to lack of evidence. So as long, as no
concrete
>
>
>
> evidence can be produced, I can hardley agree with just supporting
romours.
>
>
>
> The situation was and is quite different when we talk about C. W.
>
>
>
> Leadbeater, and TS Adyar is painfully aware of it!
>
>
>
> - - -
>
>
>
> Remember, that Sathya Sai Baba's views on sexuality have clearly
been told
>
>
>
> about by himself on several ocassions.
>
>
>
> >>> Here are a few words written in the early days <<<
>
>
>
> "Do not be contented if you give some food for the worldly hunger
of the
>
>
>
> senses. Do not lower your ideals for the sake of cheap fame or
vulgarise
>
>
>
> public taste. Instead of loukika sringaram (worldly enjoyment of
sex), give
>
>
>
> aloukika Aathmaanandham (Bliss of the Self). Contribute to the
expansion of
>
>
>
> love, the purification of motives, the enlargement of sympathy, the
>
>
>
> tolerance of difference, the respect for individual striving."
>
>
>
> (Sathya Sai Speaks, vol. IV, p. 21 - published 1964)
>
>
>
> http://www.sathyasa i.org/search/ volume04/ sss04.pdf
>
>
>
> "You must be careful about the food you take; for, the jihva
(tongue) and
>
>
>
> the guhya (organ of generation) are the two great foes of man; the
cravings
>
>
>
> of hunger and sex drag you into perdition. Desist from catering to
the
>
>
>
> tongue and its greed; do not be a victim of lust or taste. Have
pure food
>
>
>
> and eat it in company of the pure. Be moderate in food and keep the
senses
>
>
>
> strictly under control."
>
>
>
> (Sathya Sai Speaks, vol. V, p. 9 - published 1965)
>
>
>
> http://www.sathyasa i.org/search/ volume05/ sss05.pdf
>
>
>
> "In this world which is impermanent and ever transforming, the
Immanent
>
>
>
> Power of the Lord is the only permanent and fixed entity. In order
to
>
>
>
> realise the eternal and the true, one has perforce to attach
oneself to that
>
>
>
> Source and Sustenance. There is no escape from this path. It is the
destiny
>
>
>
> of one and all, irrespective of age or scholarship, clime or caste,
sex or
>
>
>
> status."
>
>
>
> (Sathya Sai Speaks, vol. I, p. 22 - published 1956)
>
>
>
> http://www.sathyasa i.org/search/ volume01/ sss01.pdf
>
>
>
> "The Mahapurushas, the Mahatmas, the Jnanis, the Yogis ... will all
be
>
>
>
> co-operating in the task of re-establishing righteousness and
clearing the
>
>
>
> path for the World-attaining Santhi. " (Sathya Sai Speaks, vol. I,
p. 29 -
>
>
>
> published 1958)
>
>
>
> http://www.sathyasa i.org/search/ volume01/ sss01.pdf
>
>
>
> "Before marriage, he is half body. Before marriage, she is half
body. Lady
>
>
>
> is always left side. Right side is gent's. The gent's body is
always the
>
>
>
> right side of the wife. Now you have only one body. In Indian
philosophy or
>
>
>
> custom, this is called ardhangi. (Ardha means half.) Wife before
marriage is
>
>
>
> only ardhangi, half body. Now the left side is joined with the
right side
>
>
>
> and you are full body."
>
>
>
> (Divine Memories of Sathya Sai Baba)
>
>
>
> Sai Baba also says:
>
>
>
> 'The real marriage is with God'; 'First man has 2 legs, he gets
marries and
>
>
>
> becomes an animal with 4 legs. They get one child, a six-legged
scorpion,
>
>
>
> then another, an 8-legged cockroach.'
>
>
>
> - - -
>
>
>
> Sai Baba's Yoga is of 5 parts - Dharma, Jnana, Karma, Bakthi, and
Dhyana are
>
>
>
> blended into one. Harmoni between head, heart and hands are your
duty.
>
>
>
> Thoughts should be ciltivated in your spiritual Heart, where they
grow up
>
>
>
> and out over the head and spreads to the joy and happiness of the
whole
>
>
>
> world.
>
>
>
> Yes. - Sure I am concerned. I am not a Sai devotee, because of the
manner
>
>
>
> the SathyaSai organisation is being run. Too much (almost blind)
bakthi, way
>
>
>
> too much to my taste. Yet the most emotional persons among us
craves
>
>
>
> something like that even when it is not what they spiritually NEED.
>
>
>
> And you are saying that none of the romours come from the Jesuits
or the
>
>
>
> Militant Christians in USA? None at all?
>
>
>
> Yet I also remain a critic of Sathya Sai Baba's acitivties
regarding his
>
>
>
> silences in the years after the romours and accusations. Yet no
actual proof
>
>
>
> has emerged so far, and that we will have to take into account.
>
>
>
> All those who are a treath to secterian beliefs are a treath to the
Jesuit
>
>
>
> and Dugpa schemes, and they will do all in their power to throw
these
>
>
>
> treaths to pieces.
>
>
>
> - - -
>
>
>
> I am just seeking to present a more balanced view upon the issue.
>
>
>
> M. Sufilight
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
>
> From: "Martin" <Mvandertak@ yahoo. com>
>
>
>
> To: <theos-talk@ yahoogro ups.com>
>
>
>
> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 6:39 PM
>
>
>
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
>
>
>
> http://www.rickross .com/reference/ saibaba/saibaba7 .html
>
>
>
> --- On Fri, 1/16/09, Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@
stofanet. dk>
>
>
>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
>
>
>
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
>
>
>
> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>
>
>
> Date: Friday, January 16, 2009, 5:31 PM
>
>
>
> Dear friends and Cass
>
>
>
> My views are:
>
>
>
> Cass wrote:
>
>
>
> "we shall know them by their fruits is a biblical quote. "
>
>
>
> My answer:
>
>
>
> This biblical quote is esoteric teaching for those who knows about
its
>
>
>
> meaning.
>
>
>
> Blavatsky refers to it in her book The Key to Theosophy.
>
>
>
> Cass wrote:
>
>
>
> "I didn't suggest that Krishnamurti outshone Sai Baba - I said that
>
>
>
> Krishnamurti helped me whereas Sai Baba offers me nothing. His
teaching is
>
>
>
> not even close to Advaita. "
>
>
>
> My answer:
>
>
>
> You are dead wrong. And your answer tells me that you have only
superfiscial
>
>
>
> knowledge about Sathya Sai Baba's teachings.
>
>
>
> Sathya Sai Baba's teachings are much more close to the true
methaphysical
>
>
>
> teachings on Adwaita Vednata and in accordance with H. P.
Blavatsky's and
>
>
>
> her Masters views. - Whereas J. Krishnamurti is not allowing any
Guru's and
>
>
>
> Chela-realtions to exists. Only his on books - whereby he have
created a
>
>
>
> sect of seperatism, opposing the Wisdom teachings of ages past. -
H. P.
>
>
>
> Blavatsky, Ammonius Saccas and Sathya Sai Baba sought and are
seeking to
>
>
>
> unite the wisdom teaching from all religions. J. Krishnamurti' s
teaching
>
>
>
> taken as an overall teaching is an obstacle to this teaching.
>
>
>
> Cass wrote:
>
>
>
> "Krishnamurti was a boy playing on a beach when he was spotted by
>
>
>
> Leadbeater. I think he was 8 years old, so Leadbeater got a hold of
him
>
>
>
> before his brain was fully developed. "
>
>
>
> My answer:
>
>
>
> How can a World Teacher of the Age allow himself to be discovered
by the
>
>
>
> Phaedofile Magician of the Age?
>
>
>
> There is clearly something wrong here.
>
>
>
> Cass wrote:
>
>
>
> "I think he was 8 years old, so Leadbeater got a hold of him before
his
>
>
>
> brain was fully developed. Apparently he was a vacant kind of kid.
>From K's
>
>
>
> point of view, Leadbeater was offering a life less poverty stricken
and no
>
>
>
> doubt K's father thought this option would benefit his son. "
>
>
>
> My answer:
>
>
>
> So he was "vacant". I bet CWL liked that. And Krishnamurti' s
father agreed
>
>
>
> without any protests?
>
>
>
> How can a vacant child write a book named "At the Feet of the
Master", and
>
>
>
> publish it a year later in 1910 ? - Was he suddenly transformed in
the magic
>
>
>
> hands of CWL?
>
>
>
> Try to read the content of this link:
>
>
>
> 1.
>
>
>
> And that was why J. Krishnamurti' s Father went to court so to
avoid the
>
>
>
> adoption???
>
>
>
> http://www.questia. com/PM.qst? a=o&d=55090725
>
>
>
> 2.
>
>
>
> Evolution of Mrs. Besant. Being the life and public activities of
Mrs. Annie
>
>
>
> Besant, secularist, socialist, theosophist and politician. With
sidelights
>
>
>
> on the inner workings of the Theosophical Society and the methods
by which
>
>
>
> Mr. Leadbeater arrived at the threshold of divinity by The Editor
of
>
>
>
> Justice, Madras, 1918.
>
>
>
> "From Mr. Leadbeater to Mrs. Besant, September 11th., 1906:
>
>
>
> You know I never for a moment suggested that the Masters dictated
or
>
>
>
> approved such teaching. I should myself simply infer that They left
me to
>
>
>
> make my own discoveries, and presumably therefore did not consider
that this
>
>
>
> one thing out-weighs everything else, as you apparently do now,
though you
>
>
>
> as certainly did not think so when we were together at Benares.
Both
>
>
>
> matrimony and prostitution must obviously be worse, because in each
case
>
>
>
> they involve action upon radically wrong, is it not more probable
that in
>
>
>
> spite of that defect, they were willing to use what was good in me,
than
>
>
>
> that both of us and several other people have been consistently and
>
>
>
> successfully deluded for many years, especially when you consider
how much
>
>
>
> good came out of the delusion. If we are to suppose the whole
transaction
>
>
>
> carried out by Dark Powers at the cost of infinite trouble, you do
not see
>
>
>
> that the balance of result of that transaction is enormously
against them? I
>
>
>
> suppose it is
>
>
>
> useless to write, because you have felt a certain line to be your
duty and
>
>
>
> you naturally therefore see everything from that point of view; but
at least
>
>
>
> do not let yourself be persuaded to think that I am still carrying
on that
>
>
>
> line of teaching in spite of you; I yielded my opinion to yours at
once, but
>
>
>
> it does not seem to have made any difference. All through the
affair, I have
>
>
>
> guided my self as far as possible by what I thought you would wish.
(Italics
>
>
>
> ours)
>
>
>
> (Exhibit Narayaniah Case)"
>
>
>
> www.phx-ult- lodge.org/ manifesto. htm
>
>
>
> http://blavatskyarc hives.com/ besantleadbeater lettersfull17. pdf
>
>
>
> 3.
>
>
>
> "In the Court of the District Judge OF CH1NGLEPUT, 0. S. No. 47 of
1912, Q.
>
>
>
> NARAYANIAH-Plaintif f
>
>
>
> Versus ANNIE BESANT-Defendant"
>
>
>
> http://74.125. 77.132/search? q=cache:NrrF7riM QYcJ:krotonaarch
ives.com/
>
>
>
> Annie_Besant_ Cases_files/ 12.11.06. OS47.Besant_ Statement_
only.Vasanta_
>
>
>
> Press.pdf+ Besant+court+ 1912+judge+ Krishnamurti+ filetype:
pdf&hl=da&
>
>
>
> ct=clnk&cd= 3&gl=dk
>
>
>
> - - -
>
>
>
> About Sathya Sai Baba, I questions all and everything.
>
>
>
> What I am referring to is that his teachings have a lot in common
with
>
>
>
> Ammonious Saccas teachings, where he is seeking to promote a
synthesis of
>
>
>
> the wisdom teachings within all the major religions on the Planet.
B. P.
>
>
>
> Blavatsky dis the same. A synthesis of the kernal of the major
religions
>
>
>
> wisdom teahings is important so to end (or at least keep down) the
strife
>
>
>
> and battles on this planet among ignorant and non-compassionate
fanatics and
>
>
>
> bigots. - J. Krishnamurti only created a secterian teachings -
without
>
>
>
> anyone to guide you on how to use cliarvoyance and other powers. No
Gurus
>
>
>
> are allowed. These are important differences
>
>
>
> M. Sufilight
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
>
> From: Cass Silva
>
>
>
> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>
>
>
> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 1:10 AM
>
>
>
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
>
>
>
> Morten
>
>
>
> we shall know them by their fruits is a biblical quote. I didn't
suggest
>
>
>
> that Krishnamurti outshone Sai Baba - I said that Krishnamurti
helped me
>
>
>
> whereas Sai Baba offers me nothing. His teaching is not even close
to
>
>
>
> Advaita. But that is only my opinion - Krishnamurti was a boy
playing on a
>
>
>
> beach when he was spotted by Leadbeater. I think he was 8 years
old, so
>
>
>
> Leadbeater got a hold of him before his brain was fully developed.
>
>
>
> Apparently he was a vacant kind of kid. From K's point of view,
Leadbeater
>
>
>
> was offering a life less poverty stricken and no doubt K's father
thought
>
>
>
> this option would benefit his son. To lay the blame at K's feet is
harsh of
>
>
>
> you - as soon as he was mature he saw the folly and abandoned it
for his own
>
>
>
> path - and who can blame him for that as it is exactly what HPB
said - each
>
>
>
> man's path is different.
>
>
>
> Sathya Sai Baba, I believe, states that he is the reincarnation of
the
>
>
>
> original Sai Baba with a 10 year gap between the death of Sai Baba
and the
>
>
>
> birth of Sathya Sai Baba. Didn't you question this?
>
>
>
> Cass
>
>
>
> ____________ _________ _________ __
>
>
>
> From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
>
>
>
> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>
>
>
> Sent: Friday, 16 January, 2009 4:05:02 AM
>
>
>
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
>
>
>
> Dear friends and Cass
>
>
>
> My views are:
>
>
>
> I have a more relaxed attitude. I follow the theosophical view: We
shall
>
>
>
> know them on their fruits and their teachings. (I.e. Not on romours
and the
>
>
>
> like.) The court in India have, when asked, rejected to do
anything, because
>
>
>
> of the lack of evidence.
>
>
>
> Yet, I entirely agree on being careful about accepting him as an
Avatar.
>
>
>
> So why should we find J. Krishnamurti better than Sathya Sai Baba
in
>
>
>
> promoting the Wisdom Teachings of All Ages Past?
>
>
>
> Remember, that J. Krishnamurti allowed himself to be singlehandedly
>
>
>
> discovered by a Phaedofile or similar named C. W. Leadbeater.
>
>
>
> M. Sufilight
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
>
> From: Cass Silva
>
>
>
> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>
>
>
> Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 2:08 AM
>
>
>
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
>
>
>
> No he is not for me Morten - too much controversy around him -
claims of
>
>
>
> sexual abuse too!
>
>
>
> Cass
>
>
>
> Sathya Sai Baba on November 23, 1926[1][2] - or later than 1927[3]
- with
>
>
>
> the family name of "Ratnakaram" ,[4] and is a controversial[ 5]
South Indian
>
>
>
> guru controversially described by his followers as a Godman[1][6]
and a
>
>
>
> miracle worker.[7][8] Several controversies including of homosexual
abuse
>
>
>
> [5], deciet[5] and economic offences[5] surround Sathyanarayana
Raju. A BBC
>
>
>
> Documentary notes that such controversies have persisted for at
least 30
>
>
>
> years [5]. The website of the American Embassy in Delhi, referring
to Sai
>
>
>
> Baba[5], warns Americans visiting Andhra Pradesh of a "noted
godman" who
>
>
>
> reportedly engages in "inappropriate sexual behaviour" with young
male
>
>
>
> devotees.[5]
>
>
>
> According to the Sathya Sai Organization there are an estimated
1,200
>
>
>
> Sathya Sai Baba Centers in 114 countries world-wide.[ 9] The number
of
>
>
>
> Sathya Sai Baba adherents is estimated sometimes as around 6
million, and
>
>
>
> followers cite "50 to 100 million."[10] He is considered by his
followers to
>
>
>
> be an avatar and the reincarnation of the saint Sai Baba of Shirdi,
however
>
>
>
> this has been strongly disputed
>
>
>
> ____________ _________ _________ __
>
>
>
> From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
>
>
>
> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>
>
>
> Sent: Thursday, 15 January, 2009 3:58:59 AM
>
>
>
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
>
>
>
> Dear friends and Cass
>
>
>
> My views are:
>
>
>
> Have you read Sathya Sai Baba's books with the SAME emphasis and
compared
>
>
>
> them with J. Krishnamurti' s?
>
>
>
> Commercials are not always objective. I think we know that.
>
>
>
> Try this easy one: GUIDE TO INDIAN CULTURE AND SPIRITUALITY (Q &
A's between
>
>
>
> Sai Baba and a Seeker).
>
>
>
> http://sss.vn. ua/guide_ in.htm
>
>
>
> Here are writings given by Sathya Sai Baba - taken down by a near
follow
>
>
>
> named N. Kasturi.
>
>
>
> http://www.sssbpt. info
>
>
>
> A book about the Avatar and the allegations etc etc.
>
>
>
> "SATHYA SAI BABA AS AVATAR" by Michael James Spurr, 2007, 450 pages
>
>
>
> http://ir.canterbur y.ac.nz/bitstrea m/10092/1025/ 1/thesis_
fulltext. pdf
>
>
>
> Sathya Sai Baba's teachings are called Purusothama Yoga (Something
like -
>
>
>
> Karma, Bakhti, Jnana blended all one in one. Or something like the
heart
>
>
>
> path of Adwaita Vedanta.)
>
>
>
> - - -
>
>
>
> Those interested will find a disagreement in dead letters between
Sai Baba
>
>
>
> and H. P. Blavatsky on when the Kali Yuga began.
>
>
>
> One will also find that Sathya Sai Baba's teaching are very
synthetic in
>
>
>
> nature, similar to H. P. Blavatsky's. Whereas J. Krishnamurti' s
was only a
>
>
>
> pseudo-Adwaita teaching where he almost always referred to himself
and never
>
>
>
> to the sages and Avatars of the ancient times. And almost never
comparing
>
>
>
> his words with others. No chela teachings like HPB and Sathya Sai
Baba are
>
>
>
> in agreement about.
>
>
>
> And when you read H. P. Blavatsky's book a Key to Theosophy you
will
>
>
>
> understand the IMPORTANCE of seeking to promote, the mutual essence
of the
>
>
>
> wisdom teachings from a religions of ancient past and present - so
to seek
>
>
>
> to END all the strifes. And NOT to do like J. Krishnamurti - merely
creating
>
>
>
> his own doctrine and sect, without really relating it to anything
else but
>
>
>
> almost only his own thoughts.
>
>
>
> But these are my views, and are written so that some of you might
catch a
>
>
>
> glimpse of the true light and not a fanatical one no matter who is
right or
>
>
>
> wrong.
>
>
>
> M. Sufilight
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
>
> From: Cass Silva
>
>
>
> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>
>
>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 2:26 AM
>
>
>
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
>
>
>
> I can only speak for myself - I gained considerable knowledge from
>
>
>
> Krishnamurti concerning the ego and how it operates.
>
>
>
> From Sai Baba all I learnt was the materialism of trinkets
>
>
>
> Cass
>
>
>
> ____________ _________ _________ __
>
>
>
> From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
>
>
>
> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>
>
>
> Sent: Wednesday, 14 January, 2009 3:58:27 AM
>
>
>
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
>
>
>
> Dear friends and Cass
>
>
>
> My views are:
>
>
>
> You wrote:
>
>
>
> "I believe Krishnamurti fulfilled Blavatsky prediction that a
Teacher
>
>
>
> would come"
>
>
>
> H. P. Blavatsky wrote the following in her famous book The Secret
Doctrine
>
>
>
> (Volume I + II):
>
>
>
> "The same may be said of the whole Esoteric system. One turn of the
key, and
>
>
>
> no more, was given in "ISIS." Much more is explained in these
volumes. In
>
>
>
> those days the writer hardly knew the language in which the work
was
>
>
>
> written, and the disclosure of many things, freely spoken about
now, was
>
>
>
> forbidden. In Century the Twentieth some disciple more informed,
and far
>
>
>
> better fitted, may be sent by the Masters of Wisdom to give final
and
>
>
>
> irrefutable proofs that there exists a Science called Gupta-Vidya;
and that,
>
>
>
> like the once-mysterious sources of the Nile, the source of all
religions
>
>
>
> and philosophies now known to the world has been for many ages
forgotten and
>
>
>
> lost to men, but is at last found."
>
>
>
> (H. P. Blavatsky "The Secret Doctrine", vol. 1., ULT-edition,
Facsimile of
>
>
>
> the original edition from 1888 ).
>
>
>
> - - -
>
>
>
> Now if J. Krishnamurti fulfilled H. P. Blavatsky's prediction he
must have
>
>
>
> been giving - as Blavatsky said in the above - "final and
irrefutable proofs
>
>
>
> that there exists a Science called Gupta-Vidya; and that, like the
>
>
>
> once-mysterious sources of the Nile, the source of all religions
and
>
>
>
> philosophies now known to the world has been for many ages
forgotten and
>
>
>
> lost to men, but is at last found."
>
>
>
> Where were and are those - quoted - "irrefutable proofs" given by
J.
>
>
>
> Krishnamurti?
>
>
>
> And if Dalai Lama is the hot shot, where were or are his - quoted -
>
>
>
> "irrefutable proofs"?
>
>
>
> And C. W. Leadbeater, who only were a clairvoyant for about 16
years
>
>
>
> before he singlehandedly discovered, lo, the Teacher of the AGE -
and not
>
>
>
> the teacher of the decade, - where was his - quoted - "irrefutable
proofs"
>
>
>
> on Gupta Vidya?
>
>
>
> I conclude there were and are none yet.
>
>
>
> Whereas - if anyone since 1925 until 2009 - should we said to have
given
>
>
>
> such a proof, it aught to be Sathya Sai Baba despite the many bad
romours
>
>
>
> about him.
>
>
>
> Is there anyone who disagree with me on this?
>
>
>
> Although, I am not the one saying that Sathya Sai Baba is the
Avatar of the
>
>
>
> Age, despite he him self are saying that.
>
>
>
> M. Sufilight
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
>
> From: Cass Silva
>
>
>
> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>
>
>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 3:57 AM
>
>
>
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
>
>
>
> How would I know?
>
>
>
> Cass
>
>
>
> Mr. J.M. Prentice followed, and Dawn is able to reproduce his
eloquent
>
>
>
> address in full. He said: -
>
>
>
> "In view of the importance of this occasion, in view of the
importance of
>
>
>
> the work we are starting tonight, I want - by way of introduction -
to refer
>
>
>
> to something which I have never hitherto referred to in public: I
want to
>
>
>
> tell you the circumstances in which H.P.B. died. I wish you to go
back with
>
>
>
> me some thirty-two years and picture a room - half bedroom, half
study, and
>
>
>
> see there an old woman, worn out in the work of Humanity, diseased
and ill,
>
>
>
> gasping out her last few life-breaths. And I want you to note that
as she
>
>
>
> dies a wave of despair well-nigh engulfs her, despair not for
herself, but
>
>
>
> for the movement to which she has devoted her life. See her seated
in a
>
>
>
> great arm-chair, and hear the last words which she whispers ere she
dies:
>
>
>
> "Tell Annie to keep the link unbroken." That was the link with the
Great
>
>
>
> Powers which were behind the Society and the White Lodge which was
>
>
>
> responsible for bringing it into
>
>
>
> existence. I want to tell you something of the happenings in the
years
>
>
>
> that have followed since then, and how Annie, who is, of course,
Mrs.
>
>
>
> Besant, has acted in regard to keeping the link unbroken. It is a
sad story.
>
>
>
> It is the story of one who failed to reach the level of greatness
indicated
>
>
>
> for her, who failed so utterly as to make H.P.B.'s despair
understandable
>
>
>
> now.
>
>
>
> "Within two years of Blavatsky's death the lust for power that has
been
>
>
>
> such a feature of Mrs. Besant's career manifested itself, and that
dominant
>
>
>
> pride of personality that H.P.B. had so severely rebuked, had shown
itself.
>
>
>
> In 1892 (3-4), there was - what shall I call it? - a conflict
between two of
>
>
>
> the personalities that were left in charge of the movement, and the
result
>
>
>
> of the clash was the ruinous experience known as the Judge
secession in
>
>
>
> 1895. There is little profit in reviewing all the details, but I
want to say
>
>
>
> this: it was largely the result of Annie Besant's work, of her
failure to
>
>
>
> understand the principles of universal brotherhood, that the
movement was
>
>
>
> well-nigh wrecked then. That section of the movement which followed
Mr.
>
>
>
> Judge in 1895 passed, after his death in 1896, into the hands of
Mrs.
>
>
>
> Katherine Tingley, who is still the leader of a comparatively small
section
>
>
>
> of the Theosophical Society, and who is doing good work.
>
>
>
> She has devoted herself to the cause of Universal Brotherhood and
world
>
>
>
> peace, and we recognize the value of the work she has done in
America,
>
>
>
> Holland, and the Scandinavian countries; but she again, because of
this
>
>
>
> terrific lust for power, was not able to control even that portion
of the
>
>
>
> movement which came under her control, so there was a further
split, and
>
>
>
> that movement, that second secession, is now known as The United
Lodge of
>
>
>
> Theosophists, which in turn is doing a splendid work, more
especially in
>
>
>
> republishing Blavatsky's books exactly as she wrote them, and not
as they
>
>
>
> have been re-edited since.
>
>
>
> "The years that followed the Judge secession were marked by the
>
>
>
> introduction of Neo-Theosophy. Slowly there emerges the sinister
figure of
>
>
>
> an old friend - C.W. Leadbeater. He
>
>
>
> represents all that is worst in the whole movement. In 1906, and
right on
>
>
>
> until 1908, there were launched round him a series of scandals that
are so
>
>
>
> unsavory that I am not going to inflict any of them on you. He
resigned in
>
>
>
> 1906, and, as Mr. Gillespie has told you, he went out originally
with the
>
>
>
> unsparing condemnation of Mrs. Besant. However, she very soon
brought him
>
>
>
> back, because she found him necessary in supplying her with all the
psychic
>
>
>
> stuff requisite to the career on which she found herself embarked.
She was
>
>
>
> not able to get all the choice bits of psychic information required
to feed
>
>
>
> the flock of devotees with which she had surrounded herself, so, as
our
>
>
>
> sinister friend had already succeeded in cultivating a world-wide
impression
>
>
>
> that he was the greatest clairvoyant in existence, he was recalled
to assist
>
>
>
> her. Moreover, in connection with the appearance of some
questionable spooks
>
>
>
> that were construed in the Persons of the Masters at the
>
>
>
> death-bed
>
>
>
> of the President-Founder, Colonel Olcott, Leadbeater had performed
a
>
>
>
> signal service to Mrs. Besant by declaring, from the kindly shelter
of a
>
>
>
> Sicilian villa to which he had retired in the hour of his downfall,
that
>
>
>
> they were genuine. True, he was not there, and knew nothing of what
had
>
>
>
> actually happened; but so cleverly had he worked himself in a
position of
>
>
>
> being the mouthpiece of the Masters, that his testimony was
sufficient to
>
>
>
> swing over many of the doubters, and so, by his help, Mrs. Besant
had been
>
>
>
> elected President.
>
>
>
> "In 1908 he triumphantly returned to the movement, and very shortly
we see
>
>
>
> the first evidences of a plan which had been slowly maturing in his
mind -
>
>
>
> the first direct evidence of absolute departure from Universal
Brotherhood,
>
>
>
> and the neutrality that goes with it is in the beginnings of the
"Order of
>
>
>
> the Star in the East." I know that we were told, until we were sick
of
>
>
>
> listening to it, that the O.S.E. had no direct or official
connection with
>
>
>
> the Theosophical Society; but it was one of the first fruits of
>
>
>
> Neo-Theosophy, it fastened itself on to the movement, and the
parasitic
>
>
>
> growth has drawn its very life therefrom ever since.
>
>
>
> "In 1911-12 there was another split. If there is anything in the
world
>
>
>
> that Mrs. Besant will not tolerate, it is the possibility of a
rival. She
>
>
>
> saw one in the person of Dr. Rudolph Steiner. It did not take long
for Mrs.
>
>
>
> Besant to inaugurate a plan of campaign. She saw fit to expel the
whole of
>
>
>
> the German Section of 2,500 members. And why? What do you think was
her
>
>
>
> excuse for literally kicking out all these members? Because, she
said, Dr.
>
>
>
> Steiner was giving a presentation of Theosophy which was Christian
in its
>
>
>
> nature, that it would probably be offensive to non-Christian
members in
>
>
>
> other parts of the world. And yet she now does everything she
possibly can
>
>
>
> to foster and enliven the Liberal Catholic Church, another
parasitic growth
>
>
>
> that has caused endless trouble in regard to the free-running life
of the
>
>
>
> Society. The Liberal Catholic Church is much more likely to offend
>
>
>
> non-Christian Theosophists than ever was Dr. Steiner's presentation
>
>
>
> of Theosophy. Indeed, it has offended many of us who were nominally
>
>
>
> Christian Theosophists - Christian by accident of birth, but
Theosophists by
>
>
>
> conviction and long study. This is just a little example of the
inconstancy
>
>
>
> that goes with Neo-Theosophy. And there are dozens of others. The
chain that
>
>
>
> H.P.B. forged by her selfless service to Humanity has been broken,
not once,
>
>
>
> but dozens of times, the chain that linked the world of today with
all the
>
>
>
> splendid workers of the past, and which should have gone on into
the future
>
>
>
> in unbroken splendor, has been broken into fragments because
"Annie" was
>
>
>
> unfaithful to the charge given to her by the dying Blavatsky, and
had failed
>
>
>
> to keep the particular link delivered into her hands unbroken.
>
>
>
> ____________ _________ _________ __
>
>
>
> From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
>
>
>
> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>
>
>
> Sent: Tuesday, 13 January, 2009 4:54:46 AM
>
>
>
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
>
>
>
> And which of them gace "irrefutable proof of Gupta-Vidya" ?
>
>
>
> Dalai Lama, J. Krushnamurti, or C. W. Leadbeater?
>
>
>
> M. Sufilight
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
>
> From: nhcareyta
>
>
>
> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>
>
>
> Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 2:02 AM
>
>
>
> Subject: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
>
>
>
> Dear Cass
>
>
>
> If I may add to your discussion, your point concerning
>
>
>
> a teacher rather than Messiah is, from my perspective,
>
>
>
> well made and significant.
>
>
>
> Moreover, Madame Blavatsky's words "...numerous and
>
>
>
> united body of people..." and "..an organisation awaiting
>
>
>
> his arrival..." are also significant.
>
>
>
> As I have mentioned previously, in 1973 the Dalai Lama
>
>
>
> first visited the West in Europe.
>
>
>
> He found "...numerous and united body of people..."
>
>
>
> and an organisational structure ready for his teachings.
>
>
>
> Many of these teachings are theosophical and from Madame
>
>
>
> Blavatsky's masters' tradition.
>
>
>
> She was entrusted to bring some of these same teachings to
>
>
>
> the West a century earlier.
>
>
>
> The Dalai Lama has certainly been a torchbearer for the light
>
>
>
> of compassion and non-violence in the world.
>
>
>
> And contrary to most religions, he also teaches we have to
>
>
>
> discover the nature of our self, by ourselves, through
>
>
>
> studying our mind and not through blindly following dogma,
>
>
>
> despite his tradition's many dogmas.
>
>
>
> Kind regards
>
>
>
> Nigel
>
>
>
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, Cass Silva <silva_cass@ ...>
wrote:
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > No I haven't - Blavatsky stated "the next impulse will find a
>
>
>
> numerous and united body
>
>
>
> > of people ready to welcome the new torch-bearer of Truth. He will
>
>
>
> find the minds of men prepared for his message, a language ready for
>
>
>
> him in which to clothe the new truths he brings, an organization
>
>
>
> awaiting his arrival . . . ." The Key to Theosophy, pp. 306-7.
>
>
>
> Italics added.
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > She stated a "new torch-bearer of Truth" which isn't the same
thing
>
>
>
> as a 'new messiah' - I see no problem in translating torch bearer
>
>
>
> into teacher?
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > Cass
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > ____________ _________ _________ __
>
>
>
> > From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ ...>
>
>
>
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>
>
>
> > Sent: Sunday, 11 January, 2009 8:41:05 PM
>
>
>
> > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > No.
>
>
>
> > You wrote:
>
>
>
> > "I believe Krishnamurti fulfilled Blavatsky prediction that a
>
>
>
> Teacher would come"
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > I take it that you have changed your mind or wanted to tell me
>
>
>
> something else.
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > - - -
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > And you did not answer my questions.
>
>
>
> > And I ask myself why.
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > M. Sufilight
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
>
>
>
> > From: Cass Silva
>
>
>
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>
>
>
> > Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 3:29 AM
>
>
>
> > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > As I have said he was a lesser teacher - as we have mini cycles we
>
>
>
> also have mini teachers - if you get my point
>
>
>
> > Cass
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > ____________ _________ _________ __
>
>
>
> > From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
>
>
>
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>
>
>
> > Sent: Saturday, 10 January, 2009 8:55:54 PM
>
>
>
> > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > Dear friends and Cass
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > My views are:
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > Cass wrote:
>
>
>
> > "I believe Krishnamurti fulfilled Blavatsky prediction that a
>
>
>
> Teacher would come"
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > My answer:
>
>
>
> > I see no reason to believe this. A Trre is known on its fruits.
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > ". . .during the last quarter of every hundred years an attempt is
>
>
>
> made by those 'Masters' . . . to help on the spiritual progress of
>
>
>
> Humanity in a marked and definite way. Towards the close of each
>
>
>
> century you will invariably find that an outpouring or upheaval of
>
>
>
> spirituality - or call it mysticism if you prefer - has taken place.
>
>
>
> Some one or more persons have appeared in the world as their agents,
>
>
>
> and a greater or less amount of occult knowledge and teaching has
>
>
>
> been given out . . . . .If the present attempt, in the form of our
>
>
>
> Society, succeeds better than its predecessors have done, then it
>
>
>
> will be in existence as an organized, living and healthy body when
>
>
>
> the time comes for the effort of the XXth century. The general
>
>
>
> condition of men's minds and hearts will have been improved and
>
>
>
> purified by the spread of its teachings . . . . but besides a large
>
>
>
> and accessible literature ready to men's hands, the next impulse
will
>
>
>
> find a numerous and united body
>
>
>
> > of people ready to welcome the new torch-bearer of Truth. He will
>
>
>
> find the minds of men prepared for his message, a language ready for
>
>
>
> him in which to clothe the new truths he brings, an organization
>
>
>
> awaiting his arrival . . . ." The Key to Theosophy, pp. 306-7.
>
>
>
> Italics added.
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > My answer:
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > 1.
>
>
>
> > I did not see an Organisation awaiting his (J. Krishnamurti' s)
>
>
>
> arrival. He was made a Messiah by the mis-conduct C. W. Leadbeater
to
>
>
>
> promote his and Annie Besants fantasies about a Messiah in the flesh
>
>
>
> as something theosophical.
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > 2.
>
>
>
> > He (J. Krishnamurti' s) if true, came 50 years earlier than
>
>
>
> predicted by H. P. Blavatsky. Do any of youreally HONESTLY within
>
>
>
> your minds find it to be possible that H. P. Blavatsky and her
>
>
>
> Masters was so bad in calculating when a new out-pouring would come?
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > If you compare J. Krishnamurti with other contemporary spiritual
>
>
>
> teacher and later teacher I find him to be a gnat in front of an
>
>
>
> elephant when compared with for instance persons like Idries Shah's
>
>
>
> teachings, Sathya Sai Baba's teachings, and even the persons behind
>
>
>
> the Disclosure Project on Ufology.
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > 3.
>
>
>
> > Do you honstely find his (J. Krishnamurti' s) messages to be NEW?
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > 4.
>
>
>
> > The body was not "united". It exploded thanks to C. W. Leadbeater
>
>
>
> and Annie Bests misconducts. How on earth can people find themselves
>
>
>
> believing, that the World Teacher of the Age was discovered
>
>
>
> SINGLEHANDEDLY by a man who just 3 years earlier was thrown out of
>
>
>
> the TS because of Sexual misconduct, something even admitted by
>
>
>
> himself? And a "body" which litterally en C. W. Leadbeater was
>
>
>
> admitted entrance to the Society again, forcing a great number of
>
>
>
> honest theosophists to resign?
>
>
>
> > Why should such an activity be the hallmark of theosophical TRUTH
>
>
>
> and COMPASSION?
>
>
>
> > I call it a disgrace!
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > 5.
>
>
>
> > Why do you not find H. P. Blavatsky's masters being more able to
>
>
>
> predict the future than Annie Besant's ?
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > M. Sufilight
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
>
>
>
> > From: Cass Silva
>
>
>
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>
>
>
> > Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 12:48 AM
>
>
>
> > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > It was Leadbeater who pronounced Krishnamurti as being the new
>
>
>
> World Teacher - Besant went along with it even though she should
have
>
>
>
> known better - Messiah's are not found on beaches - I believe
>
>
>
> Krishnamurti fulfilled Blavatsky prediction that a Teacher would
>
>
>
> come - Leadbeater and Besant presumed the teacher would be a World
>
>
>
> Teacher - a christ acting through maitreya - the whole episode
>
>
>
> confounds me as Besant and Leadbeater must have been aware that such
>
>
>
> a World Teacher would not have required any education from those
>
>
>
> lesser evolved.
>
>
>
> > I believe Krishnamurti when he reached adulthood recognised the
>
>
>
> bullshit - that he was not the second christ but could offer the
>
>
>
> world a new teaching on the self, hence his reasoning to abandon
>
>
>
> everything that supported the second christ claim.
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > Cass
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > ____________ _________ _________ __
>
>
>
> > From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
>
>
>
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>
>
>
> > Sent: Saturday, 10 January, 2009 3:13:49 AM
>
>
>
> > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > Yes. - Let me rephrase it:
>
>
>
> > And her activities when talking about J. Krishnamurti?
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > M. Sufilight
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
>
>
>
> > From: Cass Silva
>
>
>
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>
>
>
> > Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 11:33 PM
>
>
>
> > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > Morten - you are wrong Besant did not carnalize Jesus
>
>
>
> > Cass
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > ____________ _________ _________ __
>
>
>
> > From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
>
>
>
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>
>
>
> > Sent: Friday, 9 January, 2009 3:58:08 AM
>
>
>
> > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > Dear Pedro and friends
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > My views are:
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > Pedro asked:
>
>
>
> > "Why not burn them in public places, with sufficient notice given
>
>
>
> to
>
>
>
> > those interested to attend?"
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > My answer and questions:
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > Why especially seek to burn them all like revolutionaries? Why not
>
>
>
> just simply avoid selling them?
>
>
>
> > Let each person have their free choice in accordance with the Law
>
>
>
> of Karma. And let us tell people that we do NOT promote and sell
>
>
>
> these books, and that we have our reasons for not doing so. They
are -
>
>
>
> perhaps and only perhaps - available at our libraries alongside the
>
>
>
> books by the Spiritists, the Christian dogmatics and other
misleading
>
>
>
> teachings.
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > Can you with your compassionate heart and conscience say to any
>
>
>
> beginner seeker who visits a TS Bookshop say:
>
>
>
> > "Try this book. It is very good. It was written by one of the best
>
>
>
> theosophical authors of the past 150 years, and he was indeed a good
>
>
>
> and wise man? Honestly Pedro, if you agree to this I will have to
ask
>
>
>
> you: What planet do you come from?
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > Pedro asked:
>
>
>
> > "As a matter of fact, why stop at
>
>
>
> > Leadbeater's books? Why not include Besant's, Arundale's,
>
>
>
> > Jinarajadasa' s, Sri Ram's, Taimni's and perhaps many others?"
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > My answer and question:
>
>
>
> > Each authors books and literary output have to valued in the face
>
>
>
> of their contents and whether the individual author stands as a
>
>
>
> disgrace to the theosophical teachings. H. P. Blavatsky clearly
spake
>
>
>
> out against selling all kind of books. And TS Adyar are not selling
>
>
>
> all kind of books.
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > Today we theosophists are faced with numerous websites bashing the
>
>
>
> theosophical teachings because of C. W. Leadbeaters misconduct and
>
>
>
> the promotion of a Messiah only 3 years after he were thrown out of
>
>
>
> the Society.
>
>
>
> > You tell them all and tell us, that we and they ALL are wrong in
>
>
>
> their and our views on C. W. Leadbeater dammaging behaviour to the
TS
>
>
>
> teachings as they were given by H. P. Blavatsky and Master.
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > I had to start at one place, and choose CWL. And yes, maybe other
>
>
>
> authors books aught to be prevented from being sold so not to damage
>
>
>
> the WISDOM TEACHINGS of ALL AGES PAST. What do each of you think the
>
>
>
> Master would say if you just would go on and sell all and
everything.
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > Remember H. P. Blavatsky for instance recommended reading Hargrave
>
>
>
> Jennings book about The Rosicrucians: Their Rites and Mysteries
>
>
>
> (1870). And she did well doing it. Can we say the same about C. W.
>
>
>
> Leadbeaters books? No certainly not!
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > These are some the differences in view Pedro.
>
>
>
> > I will avoid to promote something that damages the WISDOM
TEACHINGS
>
>
>
> of ALL AGES PAST.
>
>
>
> > Whereas I find that you appearntly would allow this damage to take
>
>
>
> full effect in a Christian Church or something almost similar to it?
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > - - -
>
>
>
> > Now, Annie Besant, C. W. Leadbeater and Alice A. Bailey promotes
>
>
>
> the idea of a carnalized saviour in the flesh. They do it by the use
>
>
>
> of pseudo-Christian vocabulary, I will admit that. But they DO it.
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > H. P. Blavatsky spoke about against this idea of emotionalism.
>
>
>
> > And when people will teach theosophy they aught to consider the
>
>
>
> following views by H. P. Blavatsky.
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > H.P. Blavatsky wrote in December 1887:
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > In CARNALIZING the central figure of the New Testament, in
imposing
>
>
>
> > the dogma of the Word MADE FLESH, the Latin Church sets up a
>
>
>
> doctrine
>
>
>
> > diametrically opposed to the tenets of Buddhist and Hindu
>
>
>
> Esotericism
>
>
>
> > and the Greek Gnosis. Therefore, there will always be an abyss
>
>
>
> > between the East and the West, as long as neither of these dogmas
>
>
>
> > yields. Almost 2,000 years of bloody persecution against HERETICS
>
>
>
> > and INFIDELS by the Church looms before the Oriental nations to
>
>
>
> > prevent them from renouncing their philosophic doctrines in favor
of
>
>
>
> > that which degrades the CHRISTOS principle. [372-373]
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > ...the Christians, by localizing and isolating this great
Principle,
>
>
>
> > and denying it to any other man except Jesus of Nazareth (or the
>
>
>
> > Nazar), CARNALIZE the Christos of the Gnostics; that alone
prevents
>
>
>
> > them having any point in common with the disciples of the Archaic
>
>
>
> > Wisdom. . . . [374]
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > . . . true Theosophists will never accept ...a Christ made
>
>
>
> > Flesh. . . .[390]
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > - - -
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > C.W. XII, p. 501-
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > (From the "Book of Discipline" in the schools of "Dzyan.")
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > "1. To the earnest Disciple his Teacher takes the place of Father
>
>
>
> and Mother. For, whereas they gave him his body and its faculties,
>
>
>
> its life and casual form, the Teacher shows him how to develop the
>
>
>
> inner faculties for the acquisition of the Eternal Wisdom.
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > "2. To the Disciple each Fellow-Disciple becomes a Brother and
>
>
>
> Sister, a portion of himself, for his interests and aspirations are
>
>
>
> theirs, his welfare interwoven with theirs, his progress helped or
>
>
>
> hindered by their intelligence, morality, and behavior through the
>
>
>
> intimacy brought about by their co-discipleship.
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > "3. A co-disciple or associate cannot backslide or fall out of the
>
>
>
> line without affecting those who stand firm through the sympathetic
>
>
>
> tie between themselves and the psychical currents between them and
>
>
>
> their Teacher.
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > "4. Woe to the deserter, woe also to all who help to bring his
soul
>
>
>
> to the point where desertion first presents itself before his mind's
>
>
>
> eye, as the lesser of two evils. Gold in the crucible is he who
>
>
>
> stands the melting heat of trial, and lets only the dross be burnt
>
>
>
> out of his heart; accursed by Karmic action will find himself he who
>
>
>
> throws dross into the melting-pot of discipleship for the debasement
>
>
>
> of his fellow-pupil. As the members to the body, so are the
disciples
>
>
>
> to each other, and to the Head and Heart which teach and nourish
them
>
>
>
> with the life-stream of Truth.
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > "5. As the limbs defend the head and heart of the body they belong
>
>
>
> to, so have the disciples to defend the head and the heart of the
>
>
>
> body they belong to (in this case Theosophy) from injury."
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > (From the Letter of a Master.)
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > " ... and if the limbs have to defend the head and heart of their
>
>
>
> body, then why not so, also, the Disciples their Teachers as
>
>
>
> representing the SCIENCE of Theosophy which contains and
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > ----------
>
>
>
> > * "So shalt thou be in full accord with all that lives; bear love
>
>
>
> to men as though they were thy brother-pupils, disciples of one
>
>
>
> Teacher, the sons of one sweet mother." (Vide Fragment III, in Voice
>
>
>
> of the Silence, p. 49.)
>
>
>
> > ----------
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > Page 503
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > includes the 'head' of their privilege, the 'heart' of their
>
>
>
> spiritual growth? Saith the Scripture: -
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > "He who wipeth not away the filth with which the parent's body may
>
>
>
> have been defiled by an enemy, neither loves the parent nor honours
>
>
>
> himself. He who defendeth not the persecuted and the helpless, who
>
>
>
> giveth not of his food to the starving nor draweth water from his
>
>
>
> well for the thirsty, hath been born too soon in human shape. "
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > http://www.katinkah esselink. net/blavatsky/ articles/ v12/y1890_
>
>
>
> 052.htm
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > M. Sufilight
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
>
>
>
> > From: Pedro Oliveira
>
>
>
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>
>
>
> > Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 8:01 AM
>
>
>
> > Subject: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen"
<global-
>
>
>
> > theosophy@ .> wrote:
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > > So therefore I would keep recommending: Stop selling books by C.
>
>
>
> > W. Leadbeater and his LLC Church.
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > Why not burn them in public places, with sufficient notice given
to
>
>
>
> > those interested to attend? As a matter of fact, why stop at
>
>
>
> > Leadbeater's books? Why not include Besant's, Arundale's,
>
>
>
> > Jinarajadasa' s, Sri Ram's, Taimni's and perhaps many others?
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > In view of the statemts included in it, such as the ones below,
>
>
>
> > should not "The Secret Doctrine" be also considered as a book
whose
>
>
>
> > sale may not be allowed to go on?
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > "The Aryan views of the symbolism were those of the whole Pagan
>
>
>
> > world; the Semite interpretations emanated from, and were pre-
>
>
>
> > eminently those of a small tribe, thus marking its national
>
>
>
> features
>
>
>
> > and the idiosyncratic defects that characterize many of the Jews
to
>
>
>
> > this day - gross realism, selfishness, and sensuality. They had
>
>
>
> made
>
>
>
> > a bargain, through their father Jacob, with their tribal deity,
>
>
>
> self-
>
>
>
> > exalted above all others, and a covenant that his "seed shall be
as
>
>
>
> > the dust of the earth"; and that deity could have no better image
>
>
>
> > henceforth than that of the symbol of generation, and, as
>
>
>
> > representation, a number and numbers." (SD, vol. II, p. 470)
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > "But Phallic worship has developed only with the gradual loss of
>
>
>
> the
>
>
>
> > keys to the inner meaning of religious symbols; and there was a
day
>
>
>
> > when the Israelites had beliefs as pure as the Aryans have. But
now
>
>
>
> > Judaism, built solely on Phallic worship, has become one of the
>
>
>
> > latest creeds in Asia, and theologically a religion of hate and
>
>
>
> > malice toward everyone and everything outside themselves. Philo
>
>
>
> > Judæus shows what was the genuine Hebrew faith. The sacred
>
>
>
> Writings,
>
>
>
> > he says, prescribe what we ought to do . . . commanding us to hate
>
>
>
> > the heathen and their laws and institutions. They did hate Baal or
>
>
>
> > Bacchus worship publicly, but left its worst features to be
>
>
>
> followed
>
>
>
> > secretly; and it is with the Talmudic Jews that the grand symbols
>
>
>
> of
>
>
>
> > nature were the most profaned. With them, as now shown by the
>
>
>
> > discovery of the key to the correct Bible reading - Geometry, the
>
>
>
> > fifth divine Science ("fifth" - because it is the fifth key in the
>
>
>
> > series of the Seven Keys to the Universal esoteric language and
>
>
>
> > symbology) was desecrated, and by them applied to conceal the most
>
>
>
> > terrestrial and grossly sexual mysteries, wherein both Deity and
>
>
>
> > religion were degraded." (SD, vol. II, p. 471)
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > On the other hand, an easier solution would be to allow people the
>
>
>
> > freedom to choose what they want to read and study. Alas, this has
>
>
>
> > always been the most difficult path to follow, particularly for
>
>
>
> those
>
>
>
> > bred and born with the nourishment of the received truth.
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > Pedro
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter
inbox.
>
>
>
> Take a look http://au.docs. yahoo.com/ mail/smarterinbo x
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter
inbox.
>
>
>
> Take a look http://au.docs. yahoo.com/ mail/smarterinbo x
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter
inbox.
>
>
>
> Take a look http://au.docs. yahoo.com/ mail/smarterinbo x
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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> >
>
>
>
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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> >
>
>
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> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter
>
>
>
> inbox. Take a look http://au.docs. yahoo.com/ mail/smarterinbo x
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter inbox.
Take a
>
>
>
> look http://au.docs. yahoo.com/ mail/smarterinbo x
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter inbox.
Take a
>
>
>
> look http://au.docs. yahoo.com/ mail/smarterinbo x
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter inbox.
Take a
>
>
>
> look http://au.docs. yahoo.com/ mail/smarterinbo x
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter inbox.
Take a
>
>
>
> look http://au.docs. yahoo.com/ mail/smarterinbo x
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
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>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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> ------------ --------- --------- ------
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>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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