Theos-Talk Archives (January 2009 Message tt00317)

Especially on election day!
 
Chuck the Heretic
 
 
In a message dated 1/11/2009 6:07:33 P.M. Central Standard Time,  
silva_cass@yahoo.com writes:

 
 
 
Well the dead walk amongst and through  us
Cass

________________________________
From:  Morten Nymann Olesen <_global-theosophy@global-thgl_ 
(mailto:global-theosophy@stofanet.dk) >
To:  _theos-talk@yahoogrotheos-t_ (mailto:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com) 
Sent:  Sunday, 11 January, 2009 8:25:53 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World A Strange  Story (preferable to Zanoni or The Coming 
Race IMO)

Yeah.
Sometimes  I also get the exact same feeling, similar to Glyndon's.

I start  shaking and huges sort of 'bliss' shivers goes up and down my spine. 
The hairs  moves around the neck etc. etc.
Something out of the ordinary is at play.  Someone walk, as they say "past my 
grave".
:-)

M.  Sufilight

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Cass Silva 
To:  theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com 
Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 3:31  AM
Subject: Re: Theos-World A Strange Story (preferable to Zanoni or The  Coming 
Race IMO)

ThanksMorten

____________ _________ _________  __
From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
To:  theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Saturday, 10 January, 2009 9:13:05  PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World A Strange Story (preferable to Zanoni or The  Coming 
Race IMO)

Dear friends 

My views are:

Here is a  part from that book by Zanoni...

ZANONI

BOOK II.âART, LOVE, AND  WONDER.
Diversi aspetti in un confusi e misti.
"Ger. Lib," cant. iv.  7.

Different appearances, confused and mixt in one.

CHAPTER  I.
Centauri, e Sfingi, e pallide Gorgoni.
"Ger. Lib.," c. iv.  v.

(Centaurs and Sphinxes and pallid Gorgons.)

One moonlit  night, in the Gardens at Naples, some four or five gentleman 
were seated under  a tree, drinking their sherbet, and listening, in the 
intervals of  conversation, to the music which enlivened that gay and favourite resort 
of an  indolent population. One of this little party was a young Englishman, 
who had  been the life of the whole group, but who, for the last few moments, 
had sunk  into a gloomy and abstracted reverie. One of his countrymen observed 
this  sudden gloom, and, tapping him on the back, said, "What ails you, 
Glyndon? Are  you ill? You have grown quite pale,âyou tremble. Is it a sudden 
chill? You had  better go home: these Italian nights are often dangerous to our 
English  constitutions. "

"No, I am well now; it was a passing shudder. I cannot  account for it 
myself."

A man, apparently of about thirty years of age,  and of a mien and 
countenance strikingly superior to those around him, turned  abruptly, and looked 
steadfastly at Glyndon.

"I think I understand what  you mean," said he; "and perhaps," he added, with 
a grave smile, "I could  explain it better than yourself." Here, turning to 
the others, he added, "You  must often have felt, gentlemen, each and all of 
you, especially when sitting  alone at night, a strange and unaccountable 
sensation of coldness and awe  creep over you; your blood curdles, and the heart 
stands still; the limbs  shiver; the hair bristles; you are afraid to look up, to 
turn your eyes to the  darker corners of the room; you have a horrible fancy 
that something unearthly  is at hand; presently the whole spell, if I may so 
call it, passes away, and  you are ready to laugh at your own weakness. Have 
you not often felt what I  have thus imperfectly described?âif so, you can 
understand what our young  friend has just experienced, even amidst the delights of 
this magical scene,  and amidst the balmy whispers of a July night."

"Sir," replied Glyndon,  evidently much surprised, "you have defined exactly 
the nature of that shudder  which came over me. But how could my manner be so 
faithful an index to my  impressions? "

"I know the signs of the visitation," returned the  stranger, gravely; "they 
are not to be mistaken by one of my  experience."

M. Sufilight

----- Original Message ----- 
From:  Cass Silva 
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com 
Sent: Saturday, January 10,  2009 1:45 AM
Subject: Re: Theos-World A Strange Story (preferable to Zanoni  or The Coming 
Race IMO)

this may help the reading of  Zanoni
Cass
No. I.
ALL over the world the Theosophical Society has  from time to time attracted 
persons of both sexes with abnormal gifts or  faculties of some kind or 
another. These occult faculties are of the most  diverse nature, but it has become a 
habit to refer in a general way to those  possessing them as "psychics."
We propose to make a point of interviewing  several of our psychic friends, 
and to publish the results - with or without  names. The facts we shall be able 
to elicit cannot fail to interest and to  instruct all students of psychology.
The first interview which is appended  is with Mr. H. Wiedersehn, one of the 
oldest T.S. members in Australia. Mr.  Wiedersehn is known throughout the 
Commonwealth, and has helped almost all our  Lodges in turn in his ever-willing 
and unostentatious way. He is a clairvoyant  of no mean order, and even our very 
brief talk elicited a number of facts  which are of the greatest value to 
students of the subject: -

Q.: Mr.  Wiedersehn, we want you to tell us something about clairvoyance. 
Perhaps we  might begin with a personal question, and ask you what your own 
earlier  experiences of the faculty were?
A.: As a child, I was clairvoyant. My  mother before me would occasionally 
see things: it was a case with her, I  think, of so-called second-sight.
Q.: With yourself, was clairvoyance  occasional and accidental?
A.: It would come over me from time to time. Its  effect at first was very 
disagreeable, and created a feeling of terror. What I  saw as a child was a 
form, and in later years, when I read Lytton's "Zanoni,"  I found his description 
of "The Dweller on the Threshold" exactly fitted the  horror that I frequently 
saw.
Q.: Then you are a believer in the reality of  "The Dweller on the Threshold"?
A.: How can I help it? Often as a child the  fear of the creature almost 
drove me into convulsions. I once heard Mr.  Leadbeater tell a meeting that he had 
never seen such an object as Lytton's  "Dweller," and doubted its existence. 
There was no room for doubt with me,  however. Subsequently one other member 
of the T.S. has told me of a similar  experience.
Q.: What was the next stage?
A.: Associated with the  appearance of the "Dweller" were scenes of a vast 
desert. This desert would  respond to my own fear emotion by producing great and 
oppressive-looking  clouds of dust and smoke. Quite a fitting environment for 
that awful  "Dweller."
Q.: Did you grow out of that?
A.: At Sunday school I was, of  course, taught to pray, and when I was about 
five years old it oc-

---  8

curred to me that Jesus could make me blind, so that I should not see  these 
things. I prayed very hard indeed for blindness, and it came. After that  I 
could feel the influence of the creature sometimes, though I did not see  it.
Q.: What happened next?
A.: At an early stage I would have the  feeling of leaving the physical body, 
and did so consciously, seeing as I  went. This would be followed by a sort 
of waking up in the body with a  recollection of all that I had experienced 
while away from it. For several  years I saw what I have since learned to 
recognize as elementals of various  descriptions - mostly like miniature humans or 
fragments of them. Scenery:  usually a replica of physical nature, often very 
beautiful. With the sight  came sounds which always appealed to my emotions; 
quite sweet songs often came  from the elementals. Often, too, when I was 
perplexed about something or  other, a panoramic scene would open before me, 
something like the movies. In  these there was life and color and sound, and even 
fragrance, and these  pictures always would solve my difficulty.
Q.: Could you describe  one?
A.: Yes. When I was fifteen I was taken ill. The doctor gave my mother  a 
serious report, and she dutifully suggested to me the need of preparation  for 
death. I was at first delighted to think of release, and the close touch  that 
would follow with what had become to me an inner life full of  attractions; but 
then came the after-thought that I was an only son, and that  my mother could 
not spare me. In the moment of my perplexity, I saw myself in  a 
semi-tropical country, standing beside another European. Around us were a  number of grass 
huts like bee-hives, forming what appeared to be a native  village, in 
semi-tropical country, and many black-skinned inhabitants. I  recognized myself as a 
grownup and mature man, about thirty years of age. He  wore a moustache, 
which, at the time of my illness, was merely a boyish  ambition with me. Clearly I 
was not going to die. To me that was final: the  picture was the answer to my 
mental questioning.
Q.: Did you ever see the  native village in later life?
A.: Yes. At the time of the vision I was in  training for Lutheran mission 
work in Africa. I never went to Africa, but when  I was about twenty I came to 
Australia. Some twelve years later I found myself  on the Pusses River in North 
Queensland. I was building for a sugar company  that employed Kanakas. A 
sickness broke out amongst the Kanakas, and they were  isolated in their native 
camp some distance away. One day I walked over to  this camp to make some 
enquiries, and met the European who was in charge. As I  stood beside him the whole 
scene of my vision of seventeen years before was  there in front of me. Huts, 
jungle, and natives to the life.
Q.: That  experience should have been convincing. Did your pictures ever 
suggest past  experiences rather than future?
A.: Oh yes. As far back as I can remember -  and I may say I can remember 
learning to walk - I seemed to live in the  continuation of a past. This past was 
a definite memory just like the memory  of the last few years of my present 
life. I had been a bigger boy, and also a  man. I remembered a different mother 
and different surroundings. I knew,  indeed, how I had been dressed in what I 
always sensed - nay, knew - was a  previous life.
Q.: How did this sense develop as you grew up? 
A.: You  may imagine for yourself the difficulties that beset one who came 
back to  earth life with but a partially broken memory. I had to learn to be 
cautious;  to avoid being regarded as non compos mentis. I not only held my 
tongue, but  strove to suppress both memory and sight. Occasionally, in spite of 
this  effort, glimpses of what Schiller describes as his cruel, cruel gift, 
would  occur to me; but I got on quite normally until I was about twenty-four. 
Then I  read "Zanoni." That book was to me a revelation, as you may well imagine, 
if  you have read it. I promptly got hold of Lytton's other books. At this 
period  I was busy making a fortune on the then newly-discovered Broken Hill 
mining  field. It rather absorbs one to get the gold fever. I spent some time in  
making fifty thousand pounds, and another year or two in losing it, which I  
did in the Melbourne land boom. Then I was free once more to think, and even  
to enjoy life, for, as I
look back, that money stage is a nightmare. Having  to set out once more, I 
met on a small mining field a man who had had psychic  experiences somewhat 
similar to my own. I found myself a butt for his many  questions. These set me 
thinking, but I had no answers to many of his  enquiries. I became a voracious 
reader, and my friend had some rare books -  translations of Hindu literature 
and several mystic treatises.
Q.: Did you  discover Theosophy then?
A.: In a way, but not in name. I relaxed my  restraint of the inner seeing, 
and having no further dread of the "Dweller," I  found it possible to explore 
many avenues of speculation and enquiry by moving  around in what I have since 
learned to call the astral world.
Q.: Could you  control your going and coming in the astral world?
A.: Entirely. The will  to project myself was all that was ever necessary. Of 
course, a few physical  precautions must be taken. I have stood up and left 
my body, but that is not  wise, as the body may fall in a heap. One just lies 
down and consciously moves  off. It was soon after this period, about 1891, that

--- 9

I  came across a copy of the "Voice of the Silence." That was my real  
introduction to Theosophy. I joined the T.S. a couple of years later, and  
thenceforward contacted the literature of the Society. The "Secret Doctrine"  has been 
my chief study, but naturally all the books by other psychic writers  have 
been of great interest. Much of what these record corresponds with my own  
experiences, though it seems to be demonstrated that psychics do not all see  just 
the same things. Perhaps they do not see them in quite the same  way.
Q.: Can you give an illustration?
A.: Well, a lady who sees  astrally, a member of the T.S., I believe, came to 
me the other day in great  trouble. She had been attending service at a 
certain church where angels are  reported to take a prominent part, and are 
apparently seen by other psychics  who attend. The trouble of my visitor was, that 
instead of seeing the angels,  she saw the church full of ugly little 
elementals; in fact, she described them  to me as little devils. She was very much 
shocked.
Q.: How do you account  for different psychics seeing different things at the 
same time?
A.: An  adequate answer would take a long time. Had you not better leave it 
to another  occasion? I am simply recording a fact common to the experience of 
psychics.  The inner world is a fairly vast one, as is this, and we only 
compass a scrap  of it at a time with our pair of eyes.
Q.: How do you proceed if you want  to investigate some specific subject?
A.: To investigate consecutively, one  needs to be first of all capable of 
concentration. By concentration I mean the  real thing. Few can sufficiently 
stop their normal thinking to see with  clearness on the other planes. The first 
thing, then, with me, is deliberately  to stop thinking; that is, to get 
behind that which H.P. Blavatsky describes  as "the slayer of the real." This 
procedure does not involve  going
------------ --------- --------- --------- ---
- Cole's Book  Arcade
- 346 George Street is the Sydney Depot for " DAWN " 
- Single  Copies, Price Ninepence
------------ --------- --------- ---------  ---
out of the body, as I have previously described it. One does it while  
retaining normal physical consciousness. 
Q.: I suppose there are other  ways of doing it? 
A.: Certainly. There are methods, for instance, known to  spiritualists which 
I would describe as entirely negative. There are also  certain Hatha Yoga 
methods against which our literature warns us, because of  their accompanying 
dangers. Of course, in acquiring faculties like this one  must learn to walk 
before he can run.
Q.: I suppose you can get about best  at night when the body is asleep? Have 
you any difficulty in bringing back the  memory of night work?
A.: There is no difficulty about remembering  everything on awakening if I 
pass out with full self-consciousness. If I lay  down casually and go to sleep, 
as I often do, I should not look for any memory  on awaking. Occasionally some 
memory would impinge itself even in that case.  When one goes forth 
consciously at night, one experiences a sequence of events  much as when awake.
Q.: Do you meet your friends?
A.: Well, yes; but one  does not find them quite as normal as when they are 
awake. Some are quite  unconscious of one's presence, and cannot hear when one 
addresses them. Others  are more awake. Some, indeed, seem always quite all 
there in every way. I  suppose it is a case of some being more capable than 
others of functioning  consciously outside the physical body.
Q.: I suppose you often contact  invisible helpers such as are described in 
our books?
A.: Yes. Our older  T.S. members seem to be used on the other side. Many, 
however, though they  seem able to carry out directions, do not appear to be 
self-conscious there. A  lot of good useful work is done in that way all the same. 
But now I must go.  We can have another talk later on if you wish.

------------ ---------  --------- --------- -

_http://theosophy._ (http://theosophy./)  katinkahesselink .net/dawn/  
Vol-1-1-DAWN. htm

____________ _________ _________ __
From:  kpauljohnson <kpauljohnson@ yahoo.com>
To: theos-talk@yahoogro  ups.com
Sent: Saturday, 10 January, 2009 6:54:48 AM
Subject: Theos-World  A Strange Story (preferable to Zanoni or The Coming 
Race IMO)

Zanoni  was written in 1842, and is awfully didactic. A Strange Story 
appeared  twenty years later and is far more worthwhile. I also 
prefer it to The  Coming Race. I would highly recommend to Cass to 
start with this because  going to Australia is a pivotal plot element 
and is the setting for a good  part of the book.

--- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, Drpsionic@.. .  wrote:
>
> I've read it once, fell asleep 14 times in the  process.
> 
> BL was very influential in Euro occult circles. He  was one of 
Eliphas 
> Levi's sources of inspiration and a lot of the  stuff in the Golden 
Dawn comes 
> right out of his work.
>  
> Chuck the Heretic
> 
> 
> In a message dated  1/9/2009 6:56:21 A.M. Central Standard Time, 
> silva_cass@. ..  writes:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes Paul, I would be very  interested in reading those extracts. 
My first 
> teacher pointed me  to Bullwer Lytton's Zanoni, but still haven't 
read it. 
> Perhaps  this is the cue I needed
> 
> Cass
> 
> ____________  _________ _________ __
> From: kpauljohnson <_kpauljohnson@  kpauljohn_ 
(mailto:kpauljohnso n@...) 
> >
> To:  _theos-talk@ yahoogrotheos- t_ (mailto:theos-
talk@yahoogroups. com)  
> Sent: Friday, 9 January, 2009 6:51:55 PM
> Subject: Theos-World  Bulwer-Lytton and Bunsen
> 
> Hello all but especially Cass and  Frank,
> 
> I have noticed the recent references to Edward  Bulwer-Lytton and 
Ernest 
> Bunsen, and while these were made in  other contexts I want to 
point out 
> that there is an important  connection between these individuals 
and the 
> founding of the  Theosophical Society. The first two books 
published by 
> a Founder  of the TS, in the first year of its existence, were Art 
Magic 
> and  Ghost Land by Emma Hardinge Britten. Robert Mathiesen's 
monograph 
>  The Unseen Worlds of Emma Hardinge Britten is an amazing tour de 
force,  
> establishing beyond reasonable doubt that Bunsen was 
the  "Chevalier 
> Louis" of those two books, and that the "Orphic Circle"  depicted 
in 
> them was a genuine occult research group whose most  eminent member 
was 
> Edward Bulwer-Lytton. Emma and Bunsen first  met as adolescent 
trance 
> mediums used in the experiments of this  group around 1840; then 
renewed 
> acquaintance years later after  the emergence of the Spiritualist 
> movement.
> 
> When I  read Marion Meade's HPB biography years ago, I found 
ridiculous 
>  her assertion that a primary basis for HPB's description of the 
Masters  
> was the novels of Bulwer-Lytton. Why, I thought, would someone  
with 
> such vast documented experience with so many authentic  teachers 
have to 
> rely on silly Victorian novels for her  inspiration? What Meade and 
I 
> both missed was that it wasn't  B-L's *novels* that inspired HPB, 
it was 
> the man himself and his  nearly lifelong devotion to occultism. In 
a 
> letter written  NOVEMBER 16, 1875, THE DAY BEFORE THE INAUGURAL 
ADDRESS 
> OF  OLCOTT, HPB wrote to Stainton Moses of Bulwer-Lytton that "He 
was an  
> *adept* [italicized in the book, presumably underlined in the  
letter] 
> and kept it secret-- first for fear [of] ridicule..and  then 
because his 
> vows would not allow him to explain himself  plainer than he did." 
> (Letters I:202) At the moment I'm reading  Leslie Mitchell's 2003 
> biography of Bulwer-Lytton, and if any here is  interested will 
share 
> some excerpts about his occult  preoccupations. HPB was very 
accurate 
> about his fear of ridicule  over his occult involvements.
> 
> Paul
> 
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inbox. Take a  
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