Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
Jan 11, 2009 06:53 PM
by nhcareyta
Dear Cass
Thank you for your response.
You write, "Do you believe he has succeeded in his mission?"
It seems the "mission" is ongoing, that of developing love,
harmony and balance within this manifestation of consciousness,
through self-reflection, self-knowledge, self-realisation and
selflessness.
The "real basis" of his teachings is the selfless compassion of
the boddhisattva, as was Madame Blavatsky's.
"Now bend thy head and listen well, O Bodhisattva ?
Compassion speaks and saith: "Can there be bliss when all that
lives must suffer? Shalt thou be saved and hear the whole
world cry?"
Voice of the Silence 3rd Fragment
And:
"Compassion is no attribute. It is the LAW of LAWS...
eternal Harmony, Alaya's SELF; a shoreless universal
essence, the light of everlasting Right, an fitness of all
things, the law of love eternal."
Voice of the Silence 3rd Fragment
Unfortunately humanity at large is still disinclined to
think too reflectively or selflessly. Our age of rampant
materialism and lack of concern for those it hurts means
the deeper truths of interconnectedness, interrelatedness
and interdependence, with all that implies, falls largely
on deaf ears.
And so the Dalai Lama's teaching for the masses has to be
simple and non-threatening whilst itself being rooted in
the most profound occultism of the ageless wisdom.
Kind regards
Nigel
--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Cass Silva <silva_cass@...> wrote:
>
> So perhaps the Dalai Lama is the torch bearer -Â Do you believe he
has succeeded in his mission? My impression of the DL is that he is
a holy man - a man wanting to bring peace to our world - what is the
real basis of his teachings ?
>
> Cass
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: nhcareyta <nhcareyta@...>
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, 12 January, 2009 12:02:16 PM
> Subject: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
>
>
> Dear Cass
>
> If I may add to your discussion, your point concerning
> a teacher rather than Messiah is, from my perspective,
> well made and significant.
>
> Moreover, Madame Blavatsky's words "...numerous and
> united body of people..." and "..an organisation awaiting
> his arrival..." are also significant.
>
> As I have mentioned previously, in 1973 the Dalai Lama
> first visited the West in Europe.
> He found "...numerous and united body of people..."
> and an organisational structure ready for his teachings.
> Many of these teachings are theosophical and from Madame
> Blavatsky's masters' tradition.
> She was entrusted to bring some of these same teachings to
> the West a century earlier.
> The Dalai Lama has certainly been a torchbearer for the light
> of compassion and non-violence in the world.
> And contrary to most religions, he also teaches we have to
> discover the nature of our self, by ourselves, through
> studying our mind and not through blindly following dogma,
> despite his tradition's many dogmas.
>
> Kind regards
> Nigel
>
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, Cass Silva <silva_cass@ ...>
wrote:
> >
> > No I haven't - Blavatsky stated "the next impulse will find a
> numerous and united body
> > of people ready to welcome the new torch-bearer of Truth. He will
> find the minds of men prepared for his message, a language ready
for
> him in which to clothe the new truths he brings, an organization
> awaiting his arrival . . . ." The Key to Theosophy, pp. 306-7.
> Italics added.
> >
> > She stated a "new torch-bearer of Truth" which isn't the same
thing
> as a 'new messiah' - I see no problem in translating torch bearer
> into teacher?
> >
> > Cass
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ____________ _________ _________ __
> > From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ ...>
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> > Sent: Sunday, 11 January, 2009 8:41:05 PM
> > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> >
> >
> > No.
> > You wrote:
> > "I believe Krishnamurti fulfilled Blavatsky prediction that a
> Teacher would come"
> >
> > I take it that you have changed your mind or wanted to tell me
> something else.
> >
> > - - -
> >
> > And you did not answer my questions.
> > And I ask myself why.
> >
> > M. Sufilight
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Cass Silva
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> > Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 3:29 AM
> > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> >
> > As I have said he was a lesser teacher - as we have mini cycles
we
> also have mini teachers - if you get my point
> > Cass
> >
> > ____________ _________ _________ __
> > From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> > Sent: Saturday, 10 January, 2009 8:55:54 PM
> > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> >
> > Dear friends and Cass
> >
> > My views are:
> >
> > Cass wrote:
> > "I believe Krishnamurti fulfilled Blavatsky prediction that a
> Teacher would come"
> >
> > My answer:
> > I see no reason to believe this. A Trre is known on its fruits.
> >
> > ". . .during the last quarter of every hundred years an attempt
is
> made by those 'Masters' . . . to help on the spiritual progress of
> Humanity in a marked and definite way. Towards the close of each
> century you will invariably find that an outpouring or upheaval of
> spirituality - or call it mysticism if you prefer - has taken
place.
> Some one or more persons have appeared in the world as their
agents,
> and a greater or less amount of occult knowledge and teaching has
> been given out . . . . .If the present attempt, in the form of our
> Society, succeeds better than its predecessors have done, then it
> will be in existence as an organized, living and healthy body when
> the time comes for the effort of the XXth century. The general
> condition of men's minds and hearts will have been improved and
> purified by the spread of its teachings . . . . but besides a large
> and accessible literature ready to men's hands, the next impulse
will
> find a numerous and united body
> > of people ready to welcome the new torch-bearer of Truth. He will
> find the minds of men prepared for his message, a language ready
for
> him in which to clothe the new truths he brings, an organization
> awaiting his arrival . . . ." The Key to Theosophy, pp. 306-7.
> Italics added.
> >
> > My answer:
> >
> > 1.
> > I did not see an Organisation awaiting his (J. Krishnamurti' s)
> arrival. He was made a Messiah by the mis-conduct C. W. Leadbeater
to
> promote his and Annie Besants fantasies about a Messiah in the
flesh
> as something theosophical.
> >
> > 2.
> > He (J. Krishnamurti' s) if true, came 50 years earlier than
> predicted by H. P. Blavatsky. Do any of youreally HONESTLY within
> your minds find it to be possible that H. P. Blavatsky and her
> Masters was so bad in calculating when a new out-pouring would come?
> >
> > If you compare J. Krishnamurti with other contemporary spiritual
> teacher and later teacher I find him to be a gnat in front of an
> elephant when compared with for instance persons like Idries Shah's
> teachings, Sathya Sai Baba's teachings, and even the persons behind
> the Disclosure Project on Ufology.
> >
> > 3.
> > Do you honstely find his (J. Krishnamurti' s) messages to be NEW?
> >
> > 4.
> > The body was not "united". It exploded thanks to C. W. Leadbeater
> and Annie Bests misconducts. How on earth can people find
themselves
> believing, that the World Teacher of the Age was discovered
> SINGLEHANDEDLY by a man who just 3 years earlier was thrown out of
> the TS because of Sexual misconduct, something even admitted by
> himself? And a "body" which litterally en C. W. Leadbeater was
> admitted entrance to the Society again, forcing a great number of
> honest theosophists to resign?
> > Why should such an activity be the hallmark of theosophical TRUTH
> and COMPASSION?
> > I call it a disgrace!
> >
> > 5.
> > Why do you not find H. P. Blavatsky's masters being more able to
> predict the future than Annie Besant's ?
> >
> > M. Sufilight
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Cass Silva
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> > Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 12:48 AM
> > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> >
> > It was Leadbeater who pronounced Krishnamurti as being the new
> World Teacher - Besant went along with it even though she should
have
> known better - Messiah's are not found on beaches - I believe
> Krishnamurti fulfilled Blavatsky prediction that a Teacher would
> come - Leadbeater and Besant presumed the teacher would be a World
> Teacher - a christ acting through maitreya - the whole episode
> confounds me as Besant and Leadbeater must have been aware that
such
> a World Teacher would not have required any education from those
> lesser evolved.
> > I believe Krishnamurti when he reached adulthood recognised the
> bullshit - that he was not the second christ but could offer the
> world a new teaching on the self, hence his reasoning to abandon
> everything that supported the second christ claim.
> >
> > Cass
> >
> > ____________ _________ _________ __
> > From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> > Sent: Saturday, 10 January, 2009 3:13:49 AM
> > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> >
> > Yes. - Let me rephrase it:
> > And her activities when talking about J. Krishnamurti?
> >
> > M. Sufilight
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Cass Silva
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> > Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 11:33 PM
> > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> >
> > Morten - you are wrong Besant did not carnalize Jesus
> > Cass
> >
> > ____________ _________ _________ __
> > From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ stofanet. dk>
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> > Sent: Friday, 9 January, 2009 3:58:08 AM
> > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> >
> > Dear Pedro and friends
> >
> > My views are:
> >
> > Pedro asked:
> > "Why not burn them in public places, with sufficient notice given
> to
> > those interested to attend?"
> >
> > My answer and questions:
> >
> > Why especially seek to burn them all like revolutionaries? Why
not
> just simply avoid selling them?
> > Let each person have their free choice in accordance with the Law
> of Karma. And let us tell people that we do NOT promote and sell
> these books, and that we have our reasons for not doing so. They
are -
> perhaps and only perhaps - available at our libraries alongside the
> books by the Spiritists, the Christian dogmatics and other
misleading
> teachings.
> >
> > Can you with your compassionate heart and conscience say to any
> beginner seeker who visits a TS Bookshop say:
> > "Try this book. It is very good. It was written by one of the
best
> theosophical authors of the past 150 years, and he was indeed a
good
> and wise man? Honestly Pedro, if you agree to this I will have to
ask
> you: What planet do you come from?
> >
> > Pedro asked:
> > "As a matter of fact, why stop at
> > Leadbeater's books? Why not include Besant's, Arundale's,
> > Jinarajadasa' s, Sri Ram's, Taimni's and perhaps many others?"
> >
> > My answer and question:
> > Each authors books and literary output have to valued in the face
> of their contents and whether the individual author stands as a
> disgrace to the theosophical teachings. H. P. Blavatsky clearly
spake
> out against selling all kind of books. And TS Adyar are not selling
> all kind of books.
> >
> > Today we theosophists are faced with numerous websites bashing
the
> theosophical teachings because of C. W. Leadbeaters misconduct and
> the promotion of a Messiah only 3 years after he were thrown out of
> the Society.
> > You tell them all and tell us, that we and they ALL are wrong in
> their and our views on C. W. Leadbeater dammaging behaviour to the
TS
> teachings as they were given by H. P. Blavatsky and Master.
> >
> > I had to start at one place, and choose CWL. And yes, maybe other
> authors books aught to be prevented from being sold so not to
damage
> the WISDOM TEACHINGS of ALL AGES PAST. What do each of you think
the
> Master would say if you just would go on and sell all and
everything.
> >
> > Remember H. P. Blavatsky for instance recommended reading
Hargrave
> Jennings book about The Rosicrucians: Their Rites and Mysteries
> (1870). And she did well doing it. Can we say the same about C. W.
> Leadbeaters books? No certainly not!
> >
> > These are some the differences in view Pedro.
> > I will avoid to promote something that damages the WISDOM
TEACHINGS
> of ALL AGES PAST.
> > Whereas I find that you appearntly would allow this damage to
take
> full effect in a Christian Church or something almost similar to it?
> >
> > - - -
> > Now, Annie Besant, C. W. Leadbeater and Alice A. Bailey promotes
> the idea of a carnalized saviour in the flesh. They do it by the
use
> of pseudo-Christian vocabulary, I will admit that. But they DO it.
> >
> > H. P. Blavatsky spoke about against this idea of emotionalism.
> > And when people will teach theosophy they aught to consider the
> following views by H. P. Blavatsky.
> >
> > H.P. Blavatsky wrote in December 1887:
> >
> > In CARNALIZING the central figure of the New Testament, in
imposing
> > the dogma of the Word MADE FLESH, the Latin Church sets up a
> doctrine
> > diametrically opposed to the tenets of Buddhist and Hindu
> Esotericism
> > and the Greek Gnosis. Therefore, there will always be an abyss
> > between the East and the West, as long as neither of these dogmas
> > yields. Almost 2,000 years of bloody persecution against HERETICS
> > and INFIDELS by the Church looms before the Oriental nations to
> > prevent them from renouncing their philosophic doctrines in favor
of
> > that which degrades the CHRISTOS principle. [372-373]
> >
> > ...the Christians, by localizing and isolating this great
Principle,
> > and denying it to any other man except Jesus of Nazareth (or the
> > Nazar), CARNALIZE the Christos of the Gnostics; that alone
prevents
> > them having any point in common with the disciples of the Archaic
> > Wisdom. . . . [374]
> >
> > . . . true Theosophists will never accept ...a Christ made
> > Flesh. . . .[390]
> >
> > - - -
> >
> > C.W. XII, p. 501-
> >
> > (From the "Book of Discipline" in the schools of "Dzyan.")
> >
> > "1. To the earnest Disciple his Teacher takes the place of Father
> and Mother. For, whereas they gave him his body and its faculties,
> its life and casual form, the Teacher shows him how to develop the
> inner faculties for the acquisition of the Eternal Wisdom.
> >
> > "2. To the Disciple each Fellow-Disciple becomes a Brother and
> Sister, a portion of himself, for his interests and aspirations are
> theirs, his welfare interwoven with theirs, his progress helped or
> hindered by their intelligence, morality, and behavior through the
> intimacy brought about by their co-discipleship.
> >
> > "3. A co-disciple or associate cannot backslide or fall out of
the
> line without affecting those who stand firm through the sympathetic
> tie between themselves and the psychical currents between them and
> their Teacher.
> >
> > "4. Woe to the deserter, woe also to all who help to bring his
soul
> to the point where desertion first presents itself before his
mind's
> eye, as the lesser of two evils. Gold in the crucible is he who
> stands the melting heat of trial, and lets only the dross be burnt
> out of his heart; accursed by Karmic action will find himself he
who
> throws dross into the melting-pot of discipleship for the
debasement
> of his fellow-pupil. As the members to the body, so are the
disciples
> to each other, and to the Head and Heart which teach and nourish
them
> with the life-stream of Truth.
> >
> > "5. As the limbs defend the head and heart of the body they
belong
> to, so have the disciples to defend the head and the heart of the
> body they belong to (in this case Theosophy) from injury."
> >
> > (From the Letter of a Master.)
> >
> > " ... and if the limbs have to defend the head and heart of their
> body, then why not so, also, the Disciples their Teachers as
> representing the SCIENCE of Theosophy which contains and
> >
> > ----------
> > * "So shalt thou be in full accord with all that lives; bear love
> to men as though they were thy brother-pupils, disciples of one
> Teacher, the sons of one sweet mother." (Vide Fragment III, in
Voice
> of the Silence, p. 49.)
> > ----------
> >
> > Page 503
> >
> > includes the 'head' of their privilege, the 'heart' of their
> spiritual growth? Saith the Scripture: -
> >
> > "He who wipeth not away the filth with which the parent's body
may
> have been defiled by an enemy, neither loves the parent nor honours
> himself. He who defendeth not the persecuted and the helpless, who
> giveth not of his food to the starving nor draweth water from his
> well for the thirsty, hath been born too soon in human shape. "
> >
> > http://www.katinkah esselink. net/blavatsky/ articles/ v12/y1890_
> 052.htm
> >
> > M. Sufilight
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Pedro Oliveira
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> > Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 8:01 AM
> > Subject: Theos-World Re: TS Adyar's policy or non-policy?
> >
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen"
<global-
> > theosophy@ .> wrote:
> >
> > > So therefore I would keep recommending: Stop selling books by
C.
> > W. Leadbeater and his LLC Church.
> >
> > Why not burn them in public places, with sufficient notice given
to
> > those interested to attend? As a matter of fact, why stop at
> > Leadbeater's books? Why not include Besant's, Arundale's,
> > Jinarajadasa' s, Sri Ram's, Taimni's and perhaps many others?
> >
> > In view of the statemts included in it, such as the ones below,
> > should not "The Secret Doctrine" be also considered as a book
whose
> > sale may not be allowed to go on?
> >
> > "The Aryan views of the symbolism were those of the whole Pagan
> > world; the Semite interpretations emanated from, and were pre-
> > eminently those of a small tribe, thus marking its national
> features
> > and the idiosyncratic defects that characterize many of the Jews
to
> > this day - gross realism, selfishness, and sensuality. They had
> made
> > a bargain, through their father Jacob, with their tribal deity,
> self-
> > exalted above all others, and a covenant that his "seed shall be
as
> > the dust of the earth"; and that deity could have no better image
> > henceforth than that of the symbol of generation, and, as
> > representation, a number and numbers." (SD, vol. II, p. 470)
> >
> > "But Phallic worship has developed only with the gradual loss of
> the
> > keys to the inner meaning of religious symbols; and there was a
day
> > when the Israelites had beliefs as pure as the Aryans have. But
now
> > Judaism, built solely on Phallic worship, has become one of the
> > latest creeds in Asia, and theologically a religion of hate and
> > malice toward everyone and everything outside themselves. Philo
> > Jud�¦us shows what was the genuine Hebrew faith. The sacred
> Writings,
> > he says, prescribe what we ought to do . . . commanding us to
hate
> > the heathen and their laws and institutions. They did hate Baal
or
> > Bacchus worship publicly, but left its worst features to be
> followed
> > secretly; and it is with the Talmudic Jews that the grand symbols
> of
> > nature were the most profaned. With them, as now shown by the
> > discovery of the key to the correct Bible reading - Geometry, the
> > fifth divine Science ("fifth" - because it is the fifth key in
the
> > series of the Seven Keys to the Universal esoteric language and
> > symbology) was desecrated, and by them applied to conceal the
most
> > terrestrial and grossly sexual mysteries, wherein both Deity and
> > religion were degraded." (SD, vol. II, p. 471)
> >
> > On the other hand, an easier solution would be to allow people
the
> > freedom to choose what they want to read and study. Alas, this
has
> > always been the most difficult path to follow, particularly for
> those
> > bred and born with the nourishment of the received truth.
> >
> > Pedro
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter
inbox.
> Take a look http://au.docs. yahoo.com/ mail/smarterinbo x
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter
inbox.
> Take a look http://au.docs. yahoo.com/ mail/smarterinbo x
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter
inbox.
> Take a look http://au.docs. yahoo.com/ mail/smarterinbo x
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter
> inbox. Take a look http://au.docs. yahoo.com/ mail/smarterinbo x
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
> Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter
inbox. Take a look http://au.docs.yahoo.com/mail/smarterinbox
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
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