Theos-Talk Archives (December 2008 Message tt00345)

Dear friends

My views are:

H. P. Blavatsky repeated the view of the Mahatmas on Jesus living about 120 BC. in the below. And I agree.

"FOOTNOTES TO "THE STATUS OF JESUS"

[The Theosophist, Vol. IV, No. 10, July, 1883, p. 261]

[In a communication on "The Status of Jesus" a correspondent writes: "The long procession of martyrs who died for the love of Jesus is unknown in the history of Buddhism"; and asks: "What is the exact position given to Jesus, by the Mahatmas, in the sacred order of adepts? departed from the earth? . . . Would Jesus now be termed . . . a Dhyan Chohan, a Buddha, or a Planetary Spirit? And is he now . . . interested or concerned at all with the progress of humanity on Earth?" H. P. B. replies:]

"There is often greater martyrdom to live for the love of, whether man or an ideal, than to die for it" is a motto of the Mahatmas.
The position THEY give to Jesus, as far as we know, is that of a great and pure man, a reformer who would fain have lived but who had to die for that which he regarded as the greatest birthright of man-absolute Liberty of conscience; of an adept who preached a universal Religion knowing of, and having no other "temple of God" but man himself; that of a noble Teacher of esoteric truths which he had no time given to him to explain; that, of an initiate who recognized no difference-save the moral one-between men; who rejected caste, and despised wealth; and who preferred death rather than to reveal the secrets of initiation. And who, finally, lived over a century before the year [one] of our vulgar, so called, Christian era. 

We do not know which of the Buddhas our correspondent is thinking of, for there were many "Buddhas." They recognize in him one of the "Enlightened," hence in this sense a Buddha; but they do not recognize Jesus at all in the 



Page 604


Christ of the Gospels. Such questions, however, can hardly be answered in a public journal. Our correspondent seems to be ignorant of the fact, that though we live in India, surrounded by 250 millions of human beings, whose devotion and reverence to their respective avataras and gods is not less intense or sincere than that of the handful of Christians who grace this country to their Saviour, yet while it is deemed respectable and lawful to laugh at and abuse by word, and insult in print every one of the gods of our heathen Brothers, that journal which would presume to deny the Godship of Jesus and speak of him as he would of Buddha or Krishna, would immediately lose caste and have a hue and cry raised against it by its Christian subscribers. Such are Christian ideas of justice and Brotherhood."

http://www.katinkahesselink.net/blavatsky/articles/v4/y1883_092.htm



M. Sufilight


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: christinaleestemaker 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 4:14 PM
  Subject: Theos-World Re: 2012 ?


  HPB in Collected writings on Jesus lived around 100 B.C., IV 362, 
  603; VI

  238; VIII 189 fn., 224,

  362 & fn. (380-82 fn.); IX 204 (226

  Christina

  --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen" <global-
  theosophy@...> wrote:
  >
  > 
  > Sure.
  > 
  > John wrote:
  > "G. R. S. Mead in his survey says it is invalid and was created for 
  the 
  > purpose of ridiclue."
  > 
  > Did H. P. Blavatsky state this view anywhere? Did she not state the 
  quite 
  > opposite and said that it was a - fact - that Jesus (Joshua 
  Pandira) was 
  > born appr. 120 BC.?
  > 
  > Mead was not on the same level as H. P. Blavatsky. Some persons are 
  looking 
  > at the Akasha records instead. And their views are not quite the 
  same as G. 
  > R. S. Mead's wellmeant friendly scholary ideas and angles.
  > 
  > ---
  > 
  > Let us at least remember David Pratt's articles on Jesus and the 
  gospels. 
  > They have some interesting and valid content.
  > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/jesus.htm (On Jesus)
  > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/christian.htm (On the 
  Gospels)
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > M. Sufilight
  > 
  > ----- Original Message ----- 
  > From: <Augoeides-222@...>
  > To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
  > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 5:04 PM
  > Subject: Re: Theos-World 2012 ?
  > 
  > 
  > Morten,
  > You seem attached to the Joshua ben Pandera abusive Roman 
  ridicule for 
  > some reason. G. R. S. Mead in his survey says it is invalid and was 
  created 
  > for the purpose of ridiclue. Their version of Joshua ben Pandera 
  ( a 
  > fallacious, false name is that a Roman Centurian had sex with a 
  whore who 
  > conceived and birthed the Christ Child.In that time it was a 
  malicious rumor 
  > used to smear, ridicule and make nothing of this upstart religion 
  of the 
  > early Christians. There are no tangible credible records of the 
  Romans in 
  > regard to Jesus of Nazareth. G. R. S. Mead also wrote "Did Jesus 
  Live 100 
  > B.C.". An inquiry into the Talmudic Jesus stories, the Toldoth 
  Jeschu, and 
  > some curious statements of Epiphanius--- being a contribution to 
  the study 
  > of Christian Origins by G.R.S. Mead B .A. M.R.A.S., 1903.
  > 
  > Also I recommend his "Fragments of a Faith Forgotten" an 
  indispensable 
  > survey recommended by all Religious Scholars , Library of Congress 
  # 
  > 60-15310.
  > 
  > Regards,
  > John
  > 
  > -------------- Original message -------------- 
  > From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" <global-theosophy@...>
  > Allright.
  > Jesus (Jehosua Pandira) was mortal, and Christ was and is not.
  > I think I got it now.
  > 
  > M. Sufilight
  > 
  > ----- Original Message ----- 
  > From: Cass Silva
  > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
  > Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 1:21 AM
  > Subject: Re: Theos-World 2012 ?
  > 
  > Calleman is saying that the date is 28 October 2011
  > Cass
  > http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/2012/id/1726
  > 
  > ________________________________
  > From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@...>
  > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
  > Sent: Saturday, 20 December, 2008 4:57:20 AM
  > Subject: Re: Theos-World 2012 ?
  > 
  > Is there anyone who can help me out, and who understands Christina 
  words in 
  > this thread?
  > 
  > M. Sufillight
  > 
  > ----- Original Message ----- 
  > From: christinaleestemake r
  > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
  > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:55 PM
  > Subject: Re: Theos-World 2012 ?
  > 
  > If you and you think for others, don't understand me; While you 
  don't
  > understand what masters say on it.That are not my words, I only
  > citate them.
  > Christina
  > 
  > -- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen" <global-
  > theosophy@ .> wrote:
  > >
  > > My views are:
  > >
  > > Yes?
  > > And then what?
  > >
  > > ---
  > > I am not sure I and others understand you.
  > >
  > >
  > > M. Sufilight
  > >
  > > ----- Original Message ----- 
  > > From: christinaleestemake r
  > > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
  > > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 8:53 PM
  > > Subject: Re: Theos-World 2012 ?
  > >
  > >
  > > Ok as I read in Mahatma Letters, Jesus as mortal like anyone of
  > us,
  > > an adept more by his inherent purity and ignorance of real evil,
  > > than by what he have learned with his initiated rabbis and the
  > > already (at that period) fast degenerating Eyptian Hierophants
  > and
  > > priests. etc
  > > Letter 59 page 339 Barkers edition 1979
  > >
  > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen" 
  <global-
  > > theosophy@> wrote:
  > > >
  > > > My views are:
  > > >
  > > > The "darkness" mentioned by Blavatsky is about when Jesus
  > (Joshua
  > > Pandira) was born and when he taught. Today the Christian Church
  > is,
  > > as far as I view it, still in darkness, and a number of those who
  > > call themselves filled with wisdom are also in darkness, because
  > they
  > > find the Bible to be infallible.
  > > >
  > > >
  > > > M. Sufilight
  > > >
  > > > ----- Original Message ----- 
  > > > From: christinaleestemake r
  > > > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
  > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 6:29 PM
  > > > Subject: Re: Theos-World 2012 ?
  > > >
  > > >
  > > > So what after 33 years? If 1-33 is darkness, is not the whole
  > > > darkness?
  > > > Christina
  > > >
  > > > /
  > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen"
  > <global-
  > > > theosophy@> wrote:
  > > > >
  > > > > Dear friends
  > > > >
  > > > > My views are:
  > > > >
  > > > > Blavatsky and Master said that Jesus was born in Lod (Lydda)
  > > year
  > > > 120 BC.
  > > > >
  > > > > W. C. Leadbeater and Annie Besant said 105 BC. And Alice A.
  > > Bailey
  > > > wrote a book titled "From Bethlehem to Calvary" saying in this
  > > book,
  > > > that "the historical accuracy of His story remains as yet
  > > unsolved"
  > > > and "for when He was born at Bethlehem, it was not simply the
  > > birth
  > > > of another divine Teacher and Messenger" .
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > > Now who is telling the truth?
  > > > >
  > > > > - - -
  > > > >
  > > > > H. P. Blavatsky on the New Testament and Jesus:
  > > > > "This theory of the seven keys, the Church, according to the
  > > Abbé
  > > > Roca, has simplified "without disfiguring it," reducing the
  > keys
  > > to
  > > > three; while, on the contrary, it has fabricated three false
  > keys
  > > > which do not open anything. The legend of which I speak is
  > > founded,
  > > > as I have demonstrated over and over again in my writings and
  > my
  > > > notes, on the existence of a personage called Jehoshua (from
  > > which
  > > > Jesus has been made) born at Lüd or Lydda about 120 years
  > before
  > > the
  > > > modern era. And if this fact is denied-to which I can hardly
  > > object-
  > > > one must resign oneself to regard the hero of the drama of
  > > Calvary as
  > > > a myth pure and simple. As a matter of fact, in spite of all
  > the
  > > > desperate research made during long centuries, if we set aside
  > > the
  > > > testimony of the "Evangelists, " i.e., unknown men whose
  > identity
  > > has
  > > > never been established, and that of the Fathers of the Church,
  > > > interested fanatics, neither history, nor profane tradition,
  > > neither
  > > > official documents, nor the contemporaries of the soi-disant
  > > drama,
  > > > are able to provide one single serious proof of the historical
  > > and
  > > > real existence, not only of the Man-God but even of him called
  > > Jesus
  > > > of Nazareth, from the year 1 to the year 33. All is darkness
  > and
  > > > silence."
  > > > > (H. P. Blavatsly's Collected Writings, vol. 9, p. 225-6).
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > > M. Sufilight
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > > ----- Original Message ----- 
  > > > > From: christinaleestemake r
  > > > > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
  > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 5:31 PM
  > > > > Subject: Re: Theos-World 2012 ?
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > > Right, no one can be sure, for we have not been in the time
  > > Jezus
  > > > was
  > > > > born.It was written that he was there long before the
  > counting
  > > > > started in the year 1 from our calender
  > > > >
  > > > > Christina
  > > > >
  > > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, Cass Silva <silva_cass@ >
  > > wrote:
  > > > > >
  > > > > > Not sure what you are getting at Christina
  > > > > > Cass
  > > > > >
  > > > > >
  > > > > >
  > > > > >
  > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __
  > > > > > From: christinaleestemake r <christinaleestemak er@>
  > > > > > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
  > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, 17 December, 2008 10:03:26 PM
  > > > > > Subject: Theos-World 2012 ?
  > > > > >
  > > > > >
  > > > > > I read somewhere Leon wrote to Cass the change in 2012 but
  > we
  > > > must
  > > > > > not forget that our beginning of yearcounting happened 7
  > > years
  > > > > after
  > > > > > Jezus birthday.
  > > > > > Christina
  > > > > >
  > > > > >
  > > > > >
  > > > > >
  > > > > > Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter
  > > > > now http://au.docs. yahoo.com/ homepageset/ ?
  > > > p1=other&p2= au&p3=tagline
  > > > > >
  > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  > > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > >
  > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  > > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > >
  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  > > >
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  > >
  > 
  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  > 
  > Stay connected to the people that matter most with a smarter inbox. 
  Take a 
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