Theos-Talk Archives (December 2008 Message tt00112)

Allright.
And thanks.


M. Sufilight

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: paijmanstheo 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 7:48 PM
  Subject: Theos-World Re: A New Age? - * HPB and Mahatmas vs. UFO's and Aliens today*


  Dear Morten,

  Thank you for your thoughtful reply. Indeed, this is the starting
  point for an interesting and stimulating dialogue! Permit me a few
  days to get my answers in order, as I would very much like to extend
  the same courtesey to you, that you granted me.

  Kind regards,

  Theo

  --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen"
  <global-theosophy@...> wrote:
  >
  > Dear friends and Theo
  > 
  > My views are:
  > 
  > Thank you for your reply.
  > 
  > Here are a few words with my comments using *******.
  > 
  > I wouldn't go there if I were you, not unless you would have had a
  > fair grounding in ufology. The vimana saga, for instance, rests on a
  > translation published no earlier than 1922 - and its sources are
  suspect.
  > 
  > *******
  > What saga is resting on what?
  > What manuscript are you referring to?
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 1.
  > *** H. P. Blavatsky about the issue in The Secret Doctrine. - 1888 ***
  > 
  > The Secret Doctrine by H. P. Blavatsky, vol. 2, p. 426:
  > "It is from the Fourth Race that the early Aryans got their
  knowledge of "the bundle of wonderful things," the Sabha and 
  > 
  > Mayasabha, mentioned in the Mahabhârata, the gift of Mayâsur to the
  Pándavas. It is from them that they learnt 
  > 
  > aëronautics, Viwan Vidya (the "knowledge of flying in
  air-vehicles"), and, therefore, their great arts of meteorography 
  > 
  > and meteorology. It is from them, again, that the Aryans inherited
  their most valuable science of the hidden virtues of 
  > 
  > precious and other stones, of chemistry, or rather alchemy, of
  mineralogy, geology, physics and astronomy."
  > ( http://www.phx-ult-lodge.org/SDVolume2.htm )
  > 
  > 
  > *** Col. Henry S Olcott - 1881 ***
  > "The ancient Hindus could navigate the air, and not only navigate
  it, but fight battles in it like so many war-eagles 
  > 
  > combating for the domination of the clouds. To be so perfect in
  aeronautics, they must have known all the arts and 
  > 
  > sciences related to the science, including the strata and currents
  of the atmosphere, the relative temperature, humidity, 
  > 
  > density and specific gravity of the various gases..." 
  > 
  > Col. Henry S Olcott (1832 - 1907) American author, attorney,
  philosopher, and cofounder of the Theosophical Society in a 
  > 
  > lecture in Allahabad, in 1881. 
  > 
  > 
  > 2.
  > And the Ramayana are talking about flying vehicles:
  > Jagat Singh (1628-1652) commisioned the manuscript.
  > And the British got 4 of the original volumes of it in 1820.
  > 
  > *** Ramayana, and The Demon King Ravana ***
  > "In the Ramayana, the pushpaka ("flowery") vimana of Ravana is
  described as follows:
  > 
  > "The Pushpaka chariot that resembles the Sun and belongs to my
  brother was brought by the powerful Ravana; that aerial 
  > 
  > and excellent chariot going everywhere at will .... that chariot
  resembling a bright cloud in the sky ... and the King 
  > 
  > [Rama] got in, and the excellent chariot at the command of the
  Raghira, rose up into the higher atmosphere.'"[3]
  > 
  > It is the first flying vimana mentioned in Hindu mythology (as
  distinct from the gods' flying horse-drawn chariots).
  > 
  > Pushpaka was originally made by Maya for Kubera, the God of wealth,
  but was later stolen, along with Lanka, by his 
  > 
  > half-brother, the demon king Ravana."
  > ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vimana )
  > 
  > 3.
  > The Yuktikalpataru of Bhoja includes a reference to aerial cars in
  verses 48-50 and a manuscript of the work belonging to 
  > 
  > the Calcutta Sanskrit College dated at 1870 A.D. 
  > 
  > 
  > 4.
  > Vimanas depicted at the Ellora Caves
  > http://www.jalandhar.co.in/technology-of-hindu-gods_clip_image001.gif
  > 
  > 
  > 5.
  > Samarangana Sutradhara
  > "Samarangana Sutradhara is an encyclopedic work on classical Indian
  architecture (Vastu Shastra) written by Paramara King 
  > 
  > Bhoja of Dhar (1000-1055 AD).
  > 
  > In 83 chapters, subjects treated are town planning, house
  architecture, temple architecture and sculptural arts together 
  > 
  > with Mudras (the different hand poses and the poses of the body as
  well as the postures of legs), the canons of painting, 
  > 
  > and a chapter on the art of mechanical contrivances, the yantras
  (chapter 31).
  > 
  > This chapter on yantras has attracted the attention of pseudoscience
  and ufology in particular.[1] Verses 95-100 mentions 
  > 
  > bird-shaped aerial cars (Vimanas), and verses 101-107 mention a sort
  of robots acting as guards."
  > ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samarangana_Sutradhara )
  > 
  > 
  > I am told on the inner lines that various persons within UNESCO are
  seeking to reveal that the ancient civilisations of 
  > 
  > the past more likely than not possed - very advanced - technology,
  we not even today have an inkling of knowledge and 
  > 
  > understanding about. And that one of them seemed to be the ability
  of building flying machines and various mechanical 
  > 
  > devices. I am also told, that various hardliners and various
  Bible-readers see or want to see it all differently.
  > Am I wrong and far of the track here?
  > 
  > 
  > *******
  > 
  > As to ufology: one would do best to study for instance Jerome Clarke's
  > 'UFO Encyclopedia' and to familiarise oneself with the current state
  > of ufology. And of course, the books of Charles Fort are mandatory.
  > 
  > Now if you do not understand the complexity of the field of ufology,
  > any citation of Steven Greer's project is greatly out of order.
  > 
  > *******
  > Why would it be out of Order?
  > *******
  > 
  > Theosophy and ufology? Already in the past we have seen some highly
  > disputable and downright ill fated hoaxes stemming from that
  > combination. Ufology strives to attain and maintain scientific
  > standards. Esotery, by its very nature, does not.
  > 
  > *******
  > There will always be hoaxes. Was H. P. Blavatsky a hoax when she
  talked about Vimanas
  > in her day? Are we wrong in talking about them and Aliens/Devas today?
  > *******
  > 
  > 
  > The two are incompatible, unless you'd like to take the zanier fringes
  > of ufodom into account. After all, in ufology, any connection between
  > theosophy and the ufo phenomenon is generally frowned upon and rightly
  > so, as it delivered nothing but cosmic tricksters like Adamski and
  > Williamson, the philosophical groundings of the contactee movement,
  > the strange claims of Wilhelm Landig back in Vienna, in short, all the
  > aspects of the occult approach of the mystery of the ufo phenomenon,
  > and that sits not very well with ufology. And rightly so. I would put
  > the thoughts and musings of any theosophist immersed in an
  > interpretation of the ufo phenomenon in quarantaine, as invariably
  > such an interpretation would be tainted with a decidedly esoterist and
  > theosophiacl outlook. And there is no science or objectivity in that.
  > 
  > 
  > *******
  > With such an attitude, which should also be rightly in frowning upon
  > the theosophical teachings of ages past. Where is the difference,
  may I ask?
  > 
  > And why frown at all?
  > *******
  > 
  > On the other hand, a fruitful example of this merging between
  > esoterism and ufology is found in the 1940's Borderlands group
  > surrounding medium Mark Probert and Meade Layne. Layne was a onetime
  > member of the Society of Inner Light led by Dion Fortune, who in turn
  > was a member of Moina Mathers'Golden Dawn lodge. Borderlands thus in
  > fact forming a branch of the venerable teachings of the Golden Dawn. 
  > 
  > 
  > *******
  > Well...That was almost a heretical comment there, that one talking
  about The Golden Dawn.
  > But I find Meade Layne a most interesting person.
  > 
  > Yet I wonder why Borderland.com want money for telling people the truth?
  > *******
  > 
  > Not that the legacy of Borderlands is accepted in ufology in general,
  > but they were of influence to one of the most influential writers and
  > researchers in ufology, John Keel. Not only that, one could make a
  > case for the emergence of the psychosocial school of ufology, as being
  > the ultimate distillate of esoterism and science. But not, I am
  > afraid, through the Theosophical Society.
  > 
  > 
  > *******
  > May I ask: Why not through the Theosophical Society?
  > I like being an optimist and all.
  > *******
  > 
  > Sincere regards,
  > 
  > 
  > Theo Paijmans
  > 
  > 
  > *******
  > 
  > Sincerely as weell
  > M. Sufilight
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > ----- Original Message ----- 
  > From: paijmanstheo 
  > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 11:07 PM
  > Subject: Theos-World Re: A New Age? - * HPB and Mahatmas vs. UFO's
  and Aliens today*
  > 
  > 
  > I wouldn't go there if I were you, not unless you would have had a
  > fair grounding in ufology. The vimana saga, for instance, rests on a
  > translation published no earlier than 1922 - and its sources are
  suspect.
  > 
  > As to ufology: one would do best to study for instance Jerome Clarke's
  > 'UFO Encyclopedia' and to familiarise oneself with the current state
  > of ufology. And of course, the books of Charles Fort are mandatory.
  > 
  > Now if you do not understand the complexity of the field of ufology,
  > any citation of Steven Greer's project is greatly out of order.
  > 
  > Theosophy and ufology? Already in the past we have seen some highly
  > disputable and downright ill fated hoaxes stemming from that
  > combination. Ufology strives to attain and maintain scientific
  > standards. Esotery, by its very nature, does not.
  > 
  > The two are incompatible, unless you'd like to take the zanier fringes
  > of ufodom into account. After all, in ufology, any connection between
  > theosophy and the ufo phenomenon is generally frowned upon and rightly
  > so, as it delivered nothing but cosmic tricksters like Adamski and
  > Williamson, the philosophical groundings of the contactee movement,
  > the strange claims of Wilhelm Landig back in Vienna, in short, all the
  > aspects of the occult approach of the mystery of the ufo phenomenon,
  > and that sits not very well with ufology. And rightly so. I would put
  > the thoughts and musings of any theosophist immersed in an
  > interpretation of the ufo phenomenon in quarantaine, as invariably
  > such an interpretation would be tainted with a decidedly esoterist and
  > theosophiacl outlook. And there is no science or objectivity in that.
  > 
  > On the other hand, a fruitful example of this merging between
  > esoterism and ufology is found in the 1940's Borderlands group
  > surrounding medium Mark Probert and Meade Layne. Layne was a onetime
  > member of the Society of Inner Light led by Dion Fortune, who in turn
  > was a member of Moina Mathers'Golden Dawn lodge. Borderlands thus in
  > fact forming a branch of the venerable teachings of the Golden Dawn. 
  > 
  > Not that the legacy of Borderlands is accepted in ufology in general,
  > but they were of influence to one of the most influential writers and
  > researchers in ufology, John Keel. Not only that, one could make a
  > case for the emergence of the psychosocial school of ufology, as being
  > the ultimate distillate of esoterism and science. But not, I am
  > afraid, through the Theosophical Society.
  > 
  > Sincere regards,
  > 
  > Theo Paijmans
  > 
  > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen"
  > <global-theosophy@> wrote:
  > >
  > > Dear friends
  > > 
  > > My views are:
  > > 
  > > A New Age? - * HPB and Mahatmas vs. UFO's and Aliens today*
  > > Is a New Age approaching the TS branches and the Alice A. Bailey
  groups?
  > > Is the UFO's and Aliens the present day answer to HPB and the
  > Mahatmas of the past?
  > > 
  > > 
  > > 
  > > I have som days back e-mailed about the "The Disclosure Project"
  > > A project about UFO's and the realites about Cropcircles.
  > > http://www.netro.ca/disclosure/npccmenu.htm
  > > 
  > > 
  > > 
  > > *** Phoenix Lights ***
  > > Former senator and thousands others claimed to have seen a huge UFO
  > hovering over Phoenix in 1997. The senator is now at least partly a
  > member of the Disclosure Project.
  > > http://www.thephoenixlights.net/
  > > 
  > > 
  > > 
  > > 
  > > A few questions:
  > > 
  > > Let us suppose, that UFO's and cropcircles are real in the sense,
  > that Aliens (or Star people and Devas etc.) visits us.
  > > If so, - is then not reasonable to at least compare these present
  > day events of UFO's and cropcircles in many humans lives - with the
  > emergence of the Theosophical Society with H. P. Blavatsky and her
  > Mahatmas, those 25 persons who saw them, and the Mahatma Letters and
  > those who received them? Is it unfair to compare these to issues?
  > > 
  > > Interestingly the TS was started in New York and transferred to
  India.
  > > The UFO case started in USA. What if it is stranferred to India and
  > the Congress of India?
  > > What would the politicians of India have to say about it?
  > > 
  > > We know that they were flying before the Wright brothers, and the
  > talk of Vimanas in ancient Indian scriptures are of course not
  > something, which politicians can completely ignore, is it?
  > > 
  > > 
  > > Ancient Indian Aircraft Technology
  > > They flew in 1895 before the Wright Brothers in india.
  > > http://www.world-mysteries.com/sar_7.htm
  > > 
  > > - - -
  > > 
  > > Ufo incident near Presidents recidence in Delhi march 2007:
  > > An article about the incident....
  > >
  > 
  http://ibnlive.in.com/news/ufos-over-delhi-they-blinked-on-radar-near-pm-house/top/36030-3.html?xml
  > > One Video. Talk about the issue was reported on several news
  > channels last year.
  > >
  http://ibnlive.in.com/videos/36030/were-there-ufos-over-pms-house.html
  > > 
  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  > >
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  >



   

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