Theos-Talk Archives (December 2008 Message tt00109)

Dear friends and Theo

My views are:

Thank you for your reply.

Here are a few words with my comments using *******.

I wouldn't go there if I were you, not unless you would have had a
fair grounding in ufology. The vimana saga, for instance, rests on a
translation published no earlier than 1922 - and its sources are suspect.

*******
What saga is resting on what?
What manuscript are you referring to?



1.
*** H. P. Blavatsky about the issue in The Secret Doctrine. - 1888 ***

The Secret Doctrine by H. P. Blavatsky, vol. 2, p. 426:
"It is from the Fourth Race that the early Aryans got their knowledge of "the bundle of wonderful things," the Sabha and 

Mayasabha, mentioned in the Mahabhârata, the gift of Mayâsur to the Pándavas. It is from them that they learnt 

aëronautics, Viwan Vidya (the "knowledge of flying in air-vehicles"), and, therefore, their great arts of meteorography 

and meteorology. It is from them, again, that the Aryans inherited their most valuable science of the hidden virtues of 

precious and other stones, of chemistry, or rather alchemy, of mineralogy, geology, physics and astronomy."
( http://www.phx-ult-lodge.org/SDVolume2.htm )


*** Col. Henry S Olcott - 1881 ***
"The ancient Hindus could navigate the air, and not only navigate it, but fight battles in it like so many war-eagles 

combating for the domination of the clouds. To be so perfect in aeronautics, they must have known all the arts and 

sciences related to the science, including the strata and currents of the atmosphere, the relative temperature, humidity, 

density and specific gravity of the various gases..." 

Col. Henry S Olcott (1832 - 1907) American author, attorney, philosopher, and cofounder of the Theosophical Society in a 

lecture in Allahabad, in 1881.   


2.
And the Ramayana are talking about flying vehicles:
Jagat Singh (1628-1652) commisioned the manuscript.
And the British got 4 of the original volumes of it in 1820.

*** Ramayana,  and The Demon King Ravana ***
"In the Ramayana, the pushpaka ("flowery") vimana of Ravana is described as follows:

    "The Pushpaka chariot that resembles the Sun and belongs to my brother was brought by the powerful Ravana; that aerial 

and excellent chariot going everywhere at will .... that chariot resembling a bright cloud in the sky ... and the King 

[Rama] got in, and the excellent chariot at the command of the Raghira, rose up into the higher atmosphere.'"[3]

It is the first flying vimana mentioned in Hindu mythology (as distinct from the gods' flying horse-drawn chariots).

Pushpaka was originally made by Maya for Kubera, the God of wealth, but was later stolen, along with Lanka, by his 

half-brother, the demon king Ravana."
( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vimana )

3.
The  Yuktikalpataru of Bhoja includes a reference to aerial cars in verses 48-50 and a manuscript of the work belonging to 

the Calcutta Sanskrit College dated at 1870 A.D. 


4.
Vimanas depicted at the Ellora Caves
http://www.jalandhar.co.in/technology-of-hindu-gods_clip_image001.gif


5.
Samarangana Sutradhara
"Samarangana Sutradhara is an encyclopedic work on classical Indian architecture (Vastu Shastra) written by Paramara King 

Bhoja of Dhar (1000-1055 AD).

In 83 chapters, subjects treated are town planning, house architecture, temple architecture and sculptural arts together 

with Mudras (the different hand poses and the poses of the body as well as the postures of legs), the canons of painting, 

and a chapter on the art of mechanical contrivances, the yantras (chapter 31).

This chapter on yantras has attracted the attention of pseudoscience and ufology in particular.[1] Verses 95-100 mentions 

bird-shaped aerial cars (Vimanas), and verses 101-107 mention a sort of robots acting as guards."
( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samarangana_Sutradhara )


I am told on the inner lines that various persons within UNESCO are seeking to reveal that the ancient civilisations of 

the past more likely than not possed - very advanced - technology, we not even today have an inkling of knowledge and 

understanding about. And that one of them seemed to be the ability of building flying machines and various mechanical 

devices. I am also told, that various hardliners and various Bible-readers see or want to see it all differently.
Am I wrong and far of the track here?


*******

As to ufology: one would do best to study for instance Jerome Clarke's
'UFO Encyclopedia' and to familiarise oneself with the current state
of ufology. And of course, the books of Charles Fort are mandatory.

Now if you do not understand the complexity of the field of ufology,
any citation of Steven Greer's project is greatly out of order.

*******
Why would it be out of Order?
*******

Theosophy and ufology? Already in the past we have seen some highly
disputable and downright ill fated hoaxes stemming from that
combination. Ufology strives to attain and maintain scientific
standards. Esotery, by its very nature, does not.

*******
There will always be hoaxes. Was H. P. Blavatsky a hoax when she talked about Vimanas
in her day? Are we wrong in talking about them and Aliens/Devas today?
*******


The two are incompatible, unless you'd like to take the zanier fringes
of ufodom into account. After all, in ufology, any connection between
theosophy and the ufo phenomenon is generally frowned upon and rightly
so, as it delivered nothing but cosmic tricksters like Adamski and
Williamson, the philosophical groundings of the contactee movement,
the strange claims of Wilhelm Landig back in Vienna, in short, all the
aspects of the occult approach of the mystery of the ufo phenomenon,
and that sits not very well with ufology. And rightly so. I would put
the thoughts and musings of any theosophist immersed in an
interpretation of the ufo phenomenon in quarantaine, as invariably
such an interpretation would be tainted with a decidedly esoterist and
theosophiacl outlook. And there is no science or objectivity in that.


*******
With such an attitude, which should also be rightly in frowning upon
the theosophical teachings of ages past. Where is the difference, may I ask?

And why frown at all?
*******

On the other hand, a fruitful example of this merging between
esoterism and ufology is found in the 1940's Borderlands group
surrounding medium Mark Probert and Meade Layne. Layne was a onetime
member of the Society of Inner Light led by Dion Fortune, who in turn
was a member of Moina Mathers'Golden Dawn lodge. Borderlands thus in
fact forming a branch of the venerable teachings of the Golden Dawn. 


*******
Well...That was almost a heretical comment there, that one talking about The Golden Dawn.
But I find Meade Layne a most interesting person.

Yet I wonder why Borderland.com want money for telling people the truth?
*******

Not that the legacy of Borderlands is accepted in ufology in general,
but they were of influence to one of the most influential writers and
researchers in ufology, John Keel. Not only that, one could make a
case for the emergence of the psychosocial school of ufology, as being
the ultimate distillate of esoterism and science. But not, I am
afraid, through the Theosophical Society.


*******
May I ask: Why not through the Theosophical Society?
I like being an optimist and all.
*******

Sincere regards,


Theo Paijmans


*******

Sincerely as weell
M. Sufilight





  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: paijmanstheo 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 11:07 PM
  Subject: Theos-World Re: A New Age? - * HPB and Mahatmas vs. UFO's and Aliens today*


  I wouldn't go there if I were you, not unless you would have had a
  fair grounding in ufology. The vimana saga, for instance, rests on a
  translation published no earlier than 1922 - and its sources are suspect.

  As to ufology: one would do best to study for instance Jerome Clarke's
  'UFO Encyclopedia' and to familiarise oneself with the current state
  of ufology. And of course, the books of Charles Fort are mandatory.

  Now if you do not understand the complexity of the field of ufology,
  any citation of Steven Greer's project is greatly out of order.

  Theosophy and ufology? Already in the past we have seen some highly
  disputable and downright ill fated hoaxes stemming from that
  combination. Ufology strives to attain and maintain scientific
  standards. Esotery, by its very nature, does not.

  The two are incompatible, unless you'd like to take the zanier fringes
  of ufodom into account. After all, in ufology, any connection between
  theosophy and the ufo phenomenon is generally frowned upon and rightly
  so, as it delivered nothing but cosmic tricksters like Adamski and
  Williamson, the philosophical groundings of the contactee movement,
  the strange claims of Wilhelm Landig back in Vienna, in short, all the
  aspects of the occult approach of the mystery of the ufo phenomenon,
  and that sits not very well with ufology. And rightly so. I would put
  the thoughts and musings of any theosophist immersed in an
  interpretation of the ufo phenomenon in quarantaine, as invariably
  such an interpretation would be tainted with a decidedly esoterist and
  theosophiacl outlook. And there is no science or objectivity in that.

  On the other hand, a fruitful example of this merging between
  esoterism and ufology is found in the 1940's Borderlands group
  surrounding medium Mark Probert and Meade Layne. Layne was a onetime
  member of the Society of Inner Light led by Dion Fortune, who in turn
  was a member of Moina Mathers'Golden Dawn lodge. Borderlands thus in
  fact forming a branch of the venerable teachings of the Golden Dawn. 

  Not that the legacy of Borderlands is accepted in ufology in general,
  but they were of influence to one of the most influential writers and
  researchers in ufology, John Keel. Not only that, one could make a
  case for the emergence of the psychosocial school of ufology, as being
  the ultimate distillate of esoterism and science. But not, I am
  afraid, through the Theosophical Society.

  Sincere regards,

  Theo Paijmans

  --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen"
  <global-theosophy@...> wrote:
  >
  > Dear friends
  > 
  > My views are:
  > 
  > A New Age? - * HPB and Mahatmas vs. UFO's and Aliens today*
  > Is a New Age approaching the TS branches and the Alice A. Bailey groups?
  > Is the UFO's and Aliens the present day answer to HPB and the
  Mahatmas of the past?
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > I have som days back e-mailed about the "The Disclosure Project"
  > A project about UFO's and the realites about Cropcircles.
  > http://www.netro.ca/disclosure/npccmenu.htm
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > *** Phoenix Lights ***
  > Former senator and thousands others claimed to have seen a huge UFO
  hovering over Phoenix in 1997. The senator is now at least partly a
  member of the Disclosure Project.
  > http://www.thephoenixlights.net/
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > A few questions:
  > 
  > Let us suppose, that UFO's and cropcircles are real in the sense,
  that Aliens (or Star people and Devas etc.) visits us.
  > If so, - is then not reasonable to at least compare these present
  day events of UFO's and cropcircles in many humans lives - with the
  emergence of the Theosophical Society with H. P. Blavatsky and her
  Mahatmas, those 25 persons who saw them, and the Mahatma Letters and
  those who received them? Is it unfair to compare these to issues?
  > 
  > Interestingly the TS was started in New York and transferred to India.
  > The UFO case started in USA. What if it is stranferred to India and
  the Congress of India?
  > What would the politicians of India have to say about it?
  > 
  > We know that they were flying before the Wright brothers, and the
  talk of Vimanas in ancient Indian scriptures are of course not
  something, which politicians can completely ignore, is it?
  > 
  > 
  > Ancient Indian Aircraft Technology
  > They flew in 1895 before the Wright Brothers in india.
  > http://www.world-mysteries.com/sar_7.htm
  > 
  > - - -
  > 
  > Ufo incident near Presidents recidence in Delhi march 2007:
  > An article about the incident....
  >
  http://ibnlive.in.com/news/ufos-over-delhi-they-blinked-on-radar-near-pm-house/top/36030-3.html?xml
  > One Video. Talk about the issue was reported on several news
  channels last year.
  > http://ibnlive.in.com/videos/36030/were-there-ufos-over-pms-house.html
  > 
  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  >



   

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