Re: The New Acropolis
Nov 11, 2008 01:22 AM
by Anton Rozman
Dear John,
You know, Yugoslavia was quite different from the rest of Eastern
Europe. Josip Broz Tito was an independent and powerful personality
who broke with Stalin already in 1948 and re-built relations with the
West. So, we had a specific political system of self-government and
parallel rule of Communist party with the help of secret police.
There was apparent social and political freedom present but when the
real questions of political and economical power and influence were
touched people were friendly advised to not take self-government too
seriously. It was like in a kindergarten, children were allowed to
play as they wish but game was under total control as many kids
reported deviations to the governess to get cookies. System was
therefore sustained by moral corruption and not by brutal repression.
Majority lived in an illusion that self-government and freedom is
actually working and behaved accordingly what offered great
experiences of fraternal collaboration. But when given enterprise
should bring concrete results some secret arm suddenly mysteriously
destroyed all achievements. So, it was not an easy task to understand
what is really going on. But this task was, for those who undertook
it, very precious experience too as one had to slowly build his
understanding by avoiding superficial appearances and premature
judgments as no thing and no one was what appeared to be. Quite a
theosophical experience by itself if one was able to maintain an open
mind and faith in principles, people and ideals and a solid
foundation for the research of the theosophical movement too.
I find Martinez's article on Angel Livraga informative and moderate
as he admits limits of his possibilities to faithfully represent the
whole story. No doubt that he has also limited knowledge of
theosophical movement. But, as always, it is up to the reader to
continue her/his own research if interested; it is just a piece of
the puzzle.
John, you wrote: "I tend to judge things based on "what works" that
is empirically observable by my own obnosis, ?" I can only agree and
think that this should be the basis for any sound theosophical
research. I would only add that maybe we tend to come to our
conclusions too hastily and that learning is actually never ending
story. Therefore discussion with you is always such great pleasure as
I always learn something new.
Thanks and warmest regards,
Anton
--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Augoeides-222@... wrote:
>
> Anton,
> Thanks for your reply and kind explanations as to what occurred
there in the Lodges to be sure great disappointments do happen and
are deeply painfull to those who suffer them.
>
> Your first link crashed my IE back to my sign-in home page and I
am unable to read it. The second link worked just fine. But--- it
took a long time to read--- especially because I spent so much time
laughing at the ludicris Lavraga descriptions!!! Lol!. Thank god he
never came to America! All I knew was that they divorced and divided
the branches between them. Divorces are a unfortunate human event.
> I don't agree with all said especially about H.P.B. in some of
his statements "Imperator" I think was the agency that Stainton Moses
claimed not Blavatsky. I doubt anyone ever saw Blavatsky "thin as a
skeleton" as he describes her having said. I don't recall LRH
claiming that he wrote Dianetics due to a feminine entity dictating
it to him. I rather beleive that Dianetics was lifted directly from
the Yoga Sutra of Patanjali aphorisms and translated into the
Axioms,Pre-logics, Logics that frame the Auditing Technology.
>
> Anton, the reason I asked about the ladies Initials was I thought
they in some way were associated with Ada Albrecht or another women
of the NA respective to Jorge Angel Rivlaga, I didn't want you to
breach that poor ladies identity, sorry.
>
> I am not and never have been a compulsive "joiner" and I had no
title or office in the new Acropolis. I was simply a student. I did
visit the Besant lodge on Temple Hill in Hollywood on occasion, and
also the Pasadena Lodge, and Manly Hall's Philosophical Research
Society (PRS) as well ( which has an excellent library ), and knew of
Theosophy casually. I also visited the East-West Center in LA headed
by Judith Preistley. But it was the UFO case and New Acropolis that
put fire under my feet and caused me to read and collect Theosophical
Literature.
> I tend to judge things based on "what works" that is empirically
observable by my own obnosis, so I know I can seem to disregard a lot
of the flotsum.
>
> When I met Ada Albrecht in LA she asked if i was familiar with
the "standard" of the New Acropolis and I told her no, she then
showed me the flag with the "Panther" on it and referenced Bast of
Egypt the feline headed goddess. To me is was a synchronicity because
the UFO Experiencer had blacked out when he was a teenager and when
he became conscious again he found he had tattooed one of his
forearms with a "Panther". The panther later became significant to
his case when he was sent to Bolivia where it symbolized Ticci
Viracocha to the native Bolivians there.
>
> Regards,
> John
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: "Anton Rozman" <anton_rozman@...>
> Dear John,
>
> Thank you very much for your views which confirm my suspicions.
>
> >What was your exact Position and Office in Theosophy in Yugoslavia
> when you wrote the article? ... I have no idea who "Mrs. J.A." is
or
> even why one needs to be so cryptic.<
>
> I wrote the article (as all the rest on the history of the TS in
> former Yugoslavia) last year as already a member of the Canadian
> Theosophical Association. I was never member of the TS in
Yugoslavia
> as I joined the TS in Slovenia in 1992 and left it in 1996 but
never
> hold any position in it. I used only titles and initials in this
> article because I concentrated on formal side of the problem and
> wanted to left the personalities out. I didn't have enough data to
> address the problem in a different way. The young lady used in this
> plot was Jelena Sikiriæ who after these events left Yugoslavia and
> apparently (as Konstantin told me) went to Russia.
>
> >The other link you furnished did not present the intended page.<
>
> Yes, link didn't work any more; here is the new one:
> http://www.kelebekler.com/cesnur/txt/liv-gb.htm
> And here is the TS document from the same site:
> http://www.kelebekler.com/cesnur/txt/theosophy.htm
>
> >The New Acropolis as far as I was able to discern here in the USA
> was very Theosophical in it's teachings and had zero vestige of
right
> wing anything, and I defy anyone to prove otherwise, excluding of
> course communists fabrications and lies. I am also not surprised
that
> they would be labeled as an "extreme right wing organization" by
> committed Communists or their allies in Europe and Yugoslavia
during
> those years.<
>
> The documents which depicted New Acropolis as "extreme right wing
> organization" were produced in Belgium and were handled by the Head
> of the ES in Yugoslavia who was an English lady and assisted by few
> other members of the ES and probably some agents of the secret
police.
>
> >It seems to me, and I can be reading it wrong that there were some
> hurt feelings and injured individuals when certain Lodges in
> Yugoslavia were decredentialed and the officers exiled in typical
> communist manner by the Yugoslavian communists. Do you really want
us
> to believe the Freedom of thought and expression ruled under a
> Stalinist style rule there?<
>
> Well, as almost entire Section was expelled there were certainly
hurt
> feelings but above all great disappointment. There were many young,
> enthusiastic and active people there. And there were no serious
> problems until they didn't take over the Society in their hands. It
> was just a matter of control and to regain the control the ES was
> prepared to sacrifice entire section. In Yugoslavia there was
certain
> freedom present until you didn't touch the interests of structures
of
> power. In such a case the repression was brutal but sophisticated.
>
> >When I was with the New Acropolis no one ever, at any time said
any
> negative thing about the Theosophical Society in any form, ...... I
> was not able to glean how New Acropolis in such diminutive presence
> could injure anyone in Yugoslavia much less the substantial number
of
> Lodges of so called Theosophy that were in conformity to the
> political wishes there.<
>
> Yes, I suspected that this was the reality; poor young lady and her
> relation to NA was just used to discredit young leadership of the
TS
> in Yugoslavia and to remove it. The whole story would be actually a
> farce if the consequences haven't been so harmful.
>
> Thanks again and warmest regards,
> Anton
>
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Augoeides-222@ wrote:
> >
> > Anton,
> > Well I read your article and I don't see much explanatory
> information in it in regards to New Acropolis that informs me of
any
> real data other than several repeated very diffused allegations
that
> have no real details. I have no idea who "Mrs. J.A." is or even why
> one needs to be so cryptic. The New Acropolis as far as I was able
to
> discern here in the USA was very Theosophical in it's teachings and
> had zero vestige of right wing anything, and I defy anyone to prove
> otherwise, excluding of course communists fabrications and lies. I
am
> also not surprised that they would be labeled as an "extreme right
> wing organization" by committed Communists or their allies in
Europe
> and Yugoslavia during those years.The other link you furnished did
> not present the intended page. As far as I know the New Acropolis
and
> The School of Hastinapura were "independent" of Theosophical
> Societies proper and were not Registered as a Branch of Adyar or
> Wheaton USA, and as such were immune to that Organizat
> > ions stipulatory codices, having their own internal codices. It
> seems to me, and I can be reading it wrong that there were some
hurt
> feelings and injured individuals when certain Lodges in Yugoslavia
> were decredentialed and the officers exiled in typical communist
> manner by the Yugoslavian communists. Do you really want us to
> believe the Freedom of thought and expression ruled under a
Stalinist
> style rule there?
> >
> > What was your exact Position and Office In Theosophy in
> Yugoslavia when you wrote the article?
> >
> > In a typical New Acropolis magazine the article headings were:
> >
> > Plotinus: the philosophical monism by Doctor Ada Albrecht
> >
> > Astronomy and music
> >
> > Kabbalah
> >
> > The flute and the wind
> >
> > The hidden motives of despair
> >
> > Islamic Religion
> >
> > Myth of Arthur, recovering it's symbolism
> >
> > ( very extreme right wing??? lol)
> >
> >
> > I never knew there was a Federation of Europeon Theosophical
> Societies. But it sound like a Union to me lol !
> >
> > When I was with the New Acropolis no one ever, at any time said
> any negative thing about the Theosophical Society in any form, much
> less attempted in any shape, manner, or form to encourage anyone of
> the students to "infiltrate" any other organization whatsoever.
This
> is my direct personal observation, just more "garbage" of the type
we
> previously discussed. We were much too busy with attending classes,
> studying our assigned homework, and writing papers on the same.
> Preparing lectures and events, posting handouts and notices of
events
> and lectures on telephone poles. We simply did not live on the
> oppressive suppressive onerous hateful evil environment you did.
> Theosophical Meetings here are all open the the general public and
no
> one filters friends and enemy's at the door as was the case in
> Yugoslavia apparently.
> > The Director in LA New Acropolis came from The Paris Chapter of
> the New Acropolis caled the Pythagorean Branch where he had been
> Director there. He was Argentinian and had little command of
English
> at that time. I totally respect his Theosophical learning and
> dedication to Theosophy, Blavatsky, the Mahatma's etc, and remain
> glad I had opportunity to learn from him. He arrived with little
> means on a mission impossible, and made it happen in LA. He was
> retained as a National Lecturer by Wheaton after the LA New
Acropolis
> branch closed in LA. It was selfless service he gave to both
> organizations, there was no salary from Wheaton for their National
> Lecturers then. I still have my Class materials from then which
were
> issued to me and contained what was taught, there is no right wing
> anything in there. The new Acropolis in LA had no political
activisms.
> > I never met Mr. Rivlaga but I did meet Ada Albrecht twice for
> short chat. She had excellent deportment. My observation.
> >
> > Theosophy is not proprietary property as a Philosophy, or Archaic
> Doctrine and the idea that the New Acropolis somehow expropriated
> someone else's domain is not real to me. I was not able to glean
how
> New Acropolis in such diminutive presence could injure anyone in
> Yugoslavia much less the substantial number of Lodges of so called
> Theosophy that were in conformity to the political wishes there. If
> anyone was the villain if was the ruling party there, just my
> perception.
> >
> > I can speak only from my direct experiences in LA,California.
> But I doubt they had explicitly separate class materials for
Europe,
> So. America, and USA other than language itself as it would be very
> counterproductive and costly.
> >
> > Regards,
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -------- Original message --------------
> > From: "Anton Rozman" <anton_rozman@>
> >
> > Dear John,
> >
> > I wrote some messages on New Acropolis as it was somehow
connected
> > with the decay of the Theosophical Society in former Yugoslavia.
> You
> > can see my article on this issue on:
> > http://www.teozofija.info/Teozofsko_gibanje/Decay.htm
> >
> > I have noticed on the net that, as you say, the Director of the
New
> > Acropolis in USA was also one of the national featured lecturers
> used
> > by Wheaton Headquarters, and wondered how it is possible that
this
> > was so, as in Europe and Adyar the New Acropolis was seen by
> leading
> > theosophists as political right wing organization which tried to
> > infiltrate and disrupt the TS.
> >
> > Warmest regards,
> > Anton
> >
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Augoeides-222@ wrote:
> > >
> > > Hmmm,
> > > Well many people here never even heard of "The New Acropolis"
or
> > it's successor "The School of Hastinapura" they both taught
> > Theosophy. I was a founding member of the Western USA New
Acropolis
> > in LA, the Director was and may still be a Member of this Forum
> ands
> > ws also one of the national featured lecturers used by Wheaton
> > Hdqtrs. The two organizations were originally founded by George
> Angel
> > Rivlag, Cheviale' de Spain, and his wife Ada Albrecht. They had
> > Branches in Europe, America, and So. America back in the mid-
> 1907's.
> > The School of Hastinapura originated when a division occurred
> between
> > the Husband and wife Team. around 1978 or '79.
> > > One could research using Reference Works like "The Directory of
> > Associations", I used to have it, but I donated it to a community
> > library.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > John
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -------------- Original message --------------
> > > From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" <global-theosophy@>
> > >
> > > Yes.
> > > But, where is the present day work in other parts of the world,
> > which the Master talked about?
> > > Have some theosophists for years been underestimating the
> Himalayan
> > Lodge and the Masters?
> > >
> > > And:
> > > What were the lecturer Ernest Wood engaged in before he died?
> > > What happened to Alice Leighton Cleather and Basil Crump in
their
> > lives?
> > > What happened to all those wise members who went away when CWL
> was
> > admitted inside again in 1908?
> > >
> > > M. Sufilight
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Martin
> > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 8:03 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re:TS - Are we ready for a coup?
> > >
> > > "There is more of this movement than you have yet had an
inkling
> > of, and
> > > the work of the T.S. is linked in with similar work that is
> secretly
> > > going on in all parts of the world."
> > >
> > > Guys&Dolls, this sais it all. It doesn't matter if the TS is
> burned
> > to smithereens; there is always a backup to be launched
immediately
> > under a different name with different people, but with the same
> noble
> > hearts driving its course.
> > > So puleaaaase quit this dramatic behavior and start preparing
the
> > fireworks...
> > >
> > > --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@>
> > wrote:
> > > From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@>
> > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re:TS - Are we ready for a coup?
> > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 1:11 PM
> > >
> > > Dear Anton
> > >
> > > About the "dangerous" issue:
> > >
> > > What you cannot change will die out. Just like ancient
religions
> > from ages past.
> > >
> > > Some branches do not bear fruit, and will heva to be released
by
> > other branches.
> > >
> > > Mahatma Letter 47:
> > >
> > > "So let us talk -- for sharp as your voice may be, your heart
is
> > warm and you end by saying "Whether you decree that what seems to
> me
> > right be done or not" you are ever ours faithfully etc. Europe is
a
> > large place but the world is bigger yet. The sun of Theosophy
must
> > shine for all, not for a part. There is more of this movement
than
> > you have yet had an inkling of, and the work of the T.S. is
linked
> in
> > with similar work that is secretly going on in all parts of the
> > world. " (http://www.theosoci ety.org/pasadena /mahatma/ ml-
47.htm)
> > >
> > > Anton wrote:
> > >
> > > "And because members are not nucleuses of brotherhood yet"
> > >
> > > My answer:
> > >
> > > Do you know that?
> > >
> > > Think about what you actually are saying.
> > >
> > > Anton wrote:
> > >
> > > "Well, the experience with the Esoteric Section shows that it
> > didn't
> > >
> > > achieve its goal "
> > >
> > > My answer:
> > >
> > > Some attempt end up in failure. And some persons fall on the
Path.
> > >
> > > It seems obvious, that Annie Besant tripped fell, although she
> also
> > did something good.
> > >
> > > Anton wrote:
> > >
> > > "Here I agree with Krishnamurti: You can not organize the
> > >
> > > Spiritual Path. It is a matter of each individual."
> > >
> > > My answer:
> > >
> > > But H. P. Blavatsky and the Masters did organise it, in part,
and
> > with some success!
> > >
> > > Because the real organisation is the Himalyan Lodge or the
Master
> > Lodge.
> > >
> > > Saying that the Masters are not esoterically organised and dis-
> > organised is rubbish as far as I am concerned. The Path is the
Law
> of
> > Karma. The Law of Karma is organised esoterically.
> > >
> > > And no it is NOT as you say "a matter of each individual" alone.
> > >
> > > In one sense your are quite right. But in another, it is a
clear
> > fact, that we can never walk alone.
> > >
> > > Never Anton. The world and the Oneness are there
simultaniously.
> It
> > is a paradox.
> > >
> > > Should we abandon Masters teachings and follow J. Krishnamurti
> and
> > reject all thoughts about chelaship, and learn to use occult
powers
> > by our own?
> > >
> > > Never. Never ever.
> > >
> > > M. Sufilight
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >
> > > From: Anton Rozman
> > >
> > > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> > >
> > > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 11:41 AM
> > >
> > > Subject: Theos-World Re:TS - Are we ready for a coup?
> > >
> > > Dear Morten,
> > >
> > > >Why is that a dangerous model?<
> > >
> > > It is dangerous because it detours round the Society's
> > constitutional
> > >
> > > platform and its democratic process.
> > >
> > > >The main idea with the TS was and is hopefully, that each
member
> > >
> > > will be strong enough to become a nucleus in herself or
himself.<
> > >
> > > This is an ideal to strive for but not the reality of the
> > situation.
> > >
> > > And because members are not nucleuses of brotherhood yet they
> > should
> > >
> > > apply to constitutional frame which role is to instruct and
force
> > >
> > > them to behave in a fraternal manner.
> > >
> > > >So creating a new TS running parallel with the present TS is
not
> > bad
> > >
> > > at all if the present TS is not running properly.<
> > >
> > > Well, the experience with the Esoteric Section shows that it
> didn't
> > >
> > > achieve its goal and that its members didn't become cohesive
and
> > >
> > > fraternal force in the TS, quite the contrary. Every
organization
> > >
> > > established by a spiritual authority for the spiritual progress
> of
> > >
> > > its members sooner or later becomes by default autocratic and
> > >
> > > dogmatic. Here I agree with Krishnamurti: You can not organize
> the
> > >
> > > Spiritual Path. It is a matter of each individual.
> > >
> > > >Each member is only a member voluntarily.
> > >
> > > Each group its own nucleus.
> > >
> > > One should know one on ones fruits.
> > >
> > > And importantly: One should recognize truth when it is proven.<
> > >
> > > Yes, exactly. Why create new TS which will possibly respect the
> > >
> > > original program, constitutional platform and objects in a
> greater
> > >
> > > degree if this is possible already within the present TS as
every
> > >
> > > lodge, national society and federation has all freedom to do
> that.
> > >
> > > The work must be done from the ground not from the top. The top
> can
> > >
> > > just encourage this with its own example. There are no
shortcuts
> to
> > >
> > > greater democracy and spirituality - every member has to do
> her/his
> > >
> > > own homework.
> > >
> > > >This is the idea of TS and the beginning to Chela-ship.<
> > >
> > > Well, this is the big question. Is the TS a tool for Chela-
ship?
> On
> > >
> > > individual level it can and should be. But I think that it is
> much
> > >
> > > more than that. It is a tool for greater harmony and peace in
the
> > >
> > > world - if it will work as it was meant to work.
> > >
> > > Warmest regards,
> > >
> > > Anton
> > >
> > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen"
> <global-
> > >
> > > theosophy@ .> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Dear Anton and friends
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > My views are:
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Anton wrote:
> > >
> > > > "In that way she established, in my view, a very dangerous
> model,
> > >
> > > > namely that any person who considers herself/himself or is
> > regarded
> > >
> > > > by others as a spiritual teacher can arbitrarily decide who
is
> > >
> > > loyal
> > >
> > > > to the Cause and original program of the Society and act
> > >
> > > accordingly. "
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > M. Sufilight says:
> > >
> > > > Why is that a dangerous model?
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > The main idea with the TS was and is hopefully, that each
> member
> > >
> > > will be strong enough to become a nucleus in herself or
himself.
> So
> > >
> > > creating a new TS running parallel with the present TS is not
bad
> > at
> > >
> > > all if the present TS is not running properly.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Each member are only a member volunterely.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Each group its own nucleus.
> > >
> > > > One should know one on ones fruits.
> > >
> > > > And importantly: One should recognize truth when it is proven.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > "The bitter truth is that before man can know his own
> inadequacy,
> > >
> > > or the
> > >
> > > > competence of another man or institution, he must first learn
> > >
> > > something
> > >
> > > > which will enable him to perceive both. Note well that his
> > >
> > > perception
> > >
> > > > itself is a product of right study; not of instinct or
emotional
> > >
> > > > attraction to the individual, nor yet of desiring to 'go it
> > alone'.
> > >
> > > This
> > >
> > > > is 'Learning How To
> > >
> > > > Learn." (Idries Shah)
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > This is the idea of TS and the beginning to Chela-ship.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > M. Sufilight
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >
> > > > From: Anton Rozman
> > >
> > > > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> > >
> > > > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 7:05 AM
> > >
> > > > Subject: Theos-World Re:TS - Are we ready for a coup?
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Dear friends,
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > I think that we, members of the TS, can do an enormous
service
> to
> > >
> > > the
> > >
> > > > humanity if we will be able to solve the Society's problems
in
> a
> > >
> > > > democratic and fraternal manner. This is the reason why
efforts
> > >
> > > to
> > >
> > > > reform the Society are worthwhile.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Morten, you touched, in my opinion, the crucial problem: HPB
> > >
> > > actually
> > >
> > > > said that she is loyal to HSO, not because he is President of
> the
> > >
> > > > Society but because he is loyal to the Theosophical Cause and
> > >
> > > that
> > >
> > > > the degree of her sympathy with the Theosophical Society and
> > >
> > > Adyar
> > >
> > > > depends upon the degree of loyalty of that Society to the
> Cause.
> > >
> > > > Should it break away or show disloyalty to that Cause, and
the
> > >
> > > > original program of the Society, she would shake it off like
> dust
> > >
> > > > from her feet.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > In that way she established, in my view, a very dangerous
> model,
> > >
> > > > namely that any person who considers herself/himself or is
> > >
> > > regarded
> > >
> > > > by others as a spiritual teacher can arbitrarily decide who
is
> > >
> > > loyal
> > >
> > > > to the Cause and original program of the Society and act
> > >
> > > accordingly.
> > >
> > > > And already superficial overview of the TS history shows that
> > >
> > > those
> > >
> > > > who considered themselves or were viewed by others as
spiritual
> > >
> > > > leaders (who are in touch with Masters or know what Masters
> > >
> > > thought)
> > >
> > > > were at the same time source of disagreements and schisms in
> the
> > >
> > > > Society. This model is still very alive and I think that the
> > >
> > > Society
> > >
> > > > will not be able to solve its problems if it will not be able
> to
> > >
> > > > address this issue properly.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > And Richard's parody is wonderful indication of our ludicrous
> > >
> > > > situation.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Warmest regards,
> > >
> > > > Anton
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, Drpsionic@ wrote:
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > Choke choke laugh laugh choke laugh!
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > The scare part it is that it might be true!
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > Chuck the Heretic
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > In a message dated 11/8/2008 6:55:16 P.M. Central Standard
> > >
> > > Time,
> > >
> > > > > semockr@ writes:
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > I have heard that the Dalai Lama is dropping out of his
> > >
> > > position
> > >
> > > > as
> > >
> > > > > figurehead or spokesman for a free Tibet since none of his
> > >
> > > > > initiatives in this regard have had the slightest impact on
> the
> > >
> > > > > communist govt that has Tibet in its deadly embrace.
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > This implys that president elect Obama has approached him
> with
> > >
> > > an
> > >
> > > > > offer to join his Administration of Change as secretary of
> > >
> > > Ancient
> > >
> > > > > Wisdom which is a new department that is being formed in
the
> > >
> > > > > executive branch. DK & KH were originally approached for
the
> > >
> > > > position
> > >
> > > > > but they would only agree to precipitate an email now and
> then
> > >
> > > by
> > >
> > > > way
> > >
> > > > > of communication and this was not sufficient contact to
> satisfy
> > >
> > > > the
> > >
> > > > > ex-hippies that Obama is seeding his cabinet with.
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > For the first time in history then, the SD has a real
chance
> to
> > >
> > > > > replace the Bible and to have Theosophy occupy its rightful
> > >
> > > place
> > >
> > > > as
> > >
> > > > > Law of the Land in the USA. After this has taken place, the
> > >
> > > other
> > >
> > > > > countrys will fall in line and Theosophy will experience a
> > >
> > > > resurgence
> > >
> > > > > that will beggar description of any previous coup.
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > --- In _theos-talk@ yahoogrotheos- t_ (mailto:theos-
> > >
> > > > talk@yahoogroups. com) ,
> > >
> > > > > MKR <mkr777@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > Well said.
> > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > "Proof of the pudding is in the eating."
> > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > Looking at the membership trend over the last 20 years
> world-
> > >
> > > > wide
> > >
> > > > > outside of
> > >
> > > > > > India, there is a continuing steep decline. It continues
> > >
> > > every
> > >
> > > > > minute.
> > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > The structure of TS was deliberately setup by the wise
ones
> > >
> > > with
> > >
> > > > > total
> > >
> > > > > > autonomy at lodge and section levels. So the buck stops
at
> > >
> > > the
> > >
> > > > > sections.
> > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > To address any problem, first correct problem has to be
> > >
> > > > identified.
> > >
> > > > > Then
> > >
> > > > > > solutions can be found.
> > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > Today's critical problem of TS is steep decline in
> membership
> > >
> > > in
> > >
> > > > all
> > >
> > > > > > sections outside India. This is obvious. None of
> > >
> > > the "leaders"
> > >
> > > > > even wants
> > >
> > > > > > to talk about it, because much of the decline took place
in
> > >
> > > > their
> > >
> > > > > watch and
> > >
> > > > > > they have no explanation.
> > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > Meddling with International Rules is not going to do
> anything
> > >
> > > to
> > >
> > > > > address the
> > >
> > > > > > membership growth, because TS is not a spiritual
> organization
> > >
> > > > held
> > >
> > > > > together
> > >
> > > > > > by blind followers with blind faith and blind beliefs.
> > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > It is all about a handful of GC members trying to do away
> > >
> > > with
> > >
> > > > > members'
> > >
> > > > > > rights and seize power. That would give access to all the
> > >
> > > assets
> > >
> > > > > which they
> > >
> > > > > > can spend as they want. In addition, they can put their
> > >
> > > Puppet
> > >
> > > > as
> > >
> > > > > the
> > >
> > > > > > President with wings clipped. Losers will be members, TS
> and
> > >
> > > > > theosophy.
> > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > And it would destroy TS in our life time, as members
leave.
> > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > That is where we are today.
> > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > MKR
> > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 6:05 AM, Duane Carpenter
> > >
> > > > > <monad_monad_ monad_mon
> > >
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > All membership comes from inspiration. All inspiration
> > >
> > > comes
> > >
> > > > from
> > >
> > > > > > > enlightened leadership. It often takes great luminaries
> > >
> > > like
> > >
> > > > HPB
> > >
> > > > > to light a
> > >
> > > > > > > fire in those around them. If the structure of the
> > >
> > > Theosophical
> > >
> > > > > > > Society keeps out purposely or by default those of
> advanced
> > >
> > > > > spiritual
> > >
> > > > > > > development they will never attract new members. If new
> and
> > >
> > > > > enlightened
> > >
> > > > > > > leadership do not come into an organization or
> institution
> > >
> > > to
> > >
> > > > > give it
> > >
> > > > > > > continue renewal and spiritual life that institution
will
> > >
> > > die
> > >
> > > > a
> > >
> > > > > slow
> > >
> > > > > > > agonizing death from bureaucratic minutiae and
> > >
> > > organizational
> > >
> > > > > suffocation.
> > >
> > > > > > > This is why some advocate revolution. If you cannot
> reform
> > >
> > > and
> > >
> > > > > change the
> > >
> > > > > > > old structures you either create new ones in there
place
> or
> > >
> > > > get
> > >
> > > > > out of the
> > >
> > > > > > > way and let those more responsive to the new Aquarian
> > >
> > > impulses
> > >
> > > > do
> > >
> > > > > there
> > >
> > > > > > > work.
> > >
> > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > DC
> > >
> > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > ____________ ____ ____
> > >
> > > > > > > From: MKR <mkr777@>
> > >
> > > > > > > To: _theos-talk@ yahoogrotheos- t_ (mailto:theos-
> > >
> > > > talk@yahoogroups. com)
> > >
> > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 8, 2008 6:46:43 AM
> > >
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re:TS - Are we ready for a
coup?
> > >
> > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > From an ordinary intelligent person's view, as I have
> > >
> > > > mentioned
> > >
> > > > > several
> > >
> > > > > > > time
> > >
> > > > > > > previously, the most urgent real issue facing the TS is
> NOT
> > >
> > > > > changing the
> > >
> > > > > > > rules.
> > >
> > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > It is the rapid and continuing decline in the number of
> > >
> > > > members
> > >
> > > > > in all the
> > >
> > > > > > > sections outside India.
> > >
> > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > TS was setup as fully autonomous at lodge and section
> > >
> > > levels.
> > >
> > > > So
> > >
> > > > > the
> > >
> > > > > > > problem
> > >
> > > > > > > is the problem of section leaders and hard work of the
> > >
> > > members
> > >
> > > > in
> > >
> > > > > the
> > >
> > > > > > > section. Any amount of meddling with the rules is going
> to
> > >
> > > do
> > >
> > > > > nothing to
> > >
> > > > > > > address the problem. The only thing that will do to by
> > >
> > > > tweaking
> > >
> > > > > and
> > >
> > > > > > > meddling
> > >
> > > > > > > with the rules is for the GC members to disenfranchise
> the
> > >
> > > > > members and
> > >
> > > > > > > seize
> > >
> > > > > > > the control of the presidency and thus effectively
making
> > >
> > > the
> > >
> > > > > president a
> > >
> > > > > > > puppet in the hands of a few GC members.
> > >
> > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > Once this happens, in our life time we will see the end
> of
> > >
> > > TS
> > >
> > > > > because we
> > >
> > > > > > > are
> > >
> > > > > > > not like other spiritual organizations whose basis is
> blind
> > >
> > > > faith
> > >
> > > > > and blind
> > >
> > > > > > > beliefs.
> > >
> > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > Has anyone seen any GC member ever mention the
membership
> > >
> > > > decline
> > >
> > > > > issue? It
> > >
> > > > > > > is a very sorry state of affairs.
> > >
> > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > mkr
> > >
> > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 2:17 AM, Anton Rozman
> > >
> > > <anton_rozman@ ant>
> > >
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > Dear friends,
> > >
> > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > What is the main interest of the Theosophical Society
> as
> > >
> > > an
> > >
> > > > > > > > international institution or common interest of all
> > >
> > > members
> > >
> > > > of
> > >
> > > > > the
> > >
> > > > > > > > Theosophical Society?
> > >
> > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > In first place, to neutralize all partial interests
of
> > >
> > > > > individual
> > >
> > > > > > > > members or groups of members which identify
themselves
> > >
> > > with
> > >
> > > > > those of
> > >
> > > > > > > > the Theosophical Society and in that way to be able
to
> > >
> > > > realize
> > >
> > > > > its
> > >
> > > > > > > > objects on the basis of its constitutional platform.
In
> > >
> > > > present
> > >
> > > > > > > > situation common interest is wholly absent and
crippled.
> > >
> > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > The scissors and linen to overcome it are wholly in
the
> > >
> > > > hands
> > >
> > > > > of the
> > >
> > > > > > > > elected President. She, and only she, has received a
> > >
> > > mandate
> > >
> > > > to
> > >
> > > > > unify
> > >
> > > > > > > > the Society under a common interest. She has the
power
> > >
> > > and
> > >
> > > > > authority
> > >
> > > > > > > > to do that.
> > >
> > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > It is obvious that routine proceedings aren't enough
to
> > >
> > > > solve
> > >
> > > > > actual
> > >
> > > > > > > > problem. According to Rules and Regulations the
> President
> > >
> > > has
> > >
> > > > > > > > authority to: ââ,¬Â¦ a special meeting may be called
> at
> > >
> > > any
> > >
> > > > time by
> > >
> > > > > the
> > >
> > > > > > > > President ââ,¬Â¦ the President at his discretion may
> > >
> > > call such
> > >
> > > > > members to
> > >
> > > > > > > > a meeting for the purpose of study and discussion of
> any
> > >
> > > > matters
> > >
> > > > > > > > concerning the Society that he considers appropriate
to
> > >
> > > lay
> > >
> > > > > before
> > >
> > > > > > > > them. The meeting may then forward to the President
its
> > >
> > > > report
> > >
> > > > > on
> > >
> > > > > > > > such matters and may make recommendations thereon.
Such
> > >
> > > > meetings
> > >
> > > > > > > > shall be of a consultative nature without
> administrative
> > >
> > > or
> > >
> > > > > > > > legislative authority, or may be of a legislative
> nature
> > >
> > > > upon
> > >
> > > > > the
> > >
> > > > > > > > decision of the General Council taken at least one
year
> > >
> > > in
> > >
> > > > > advance.
> > >
> > > > > > > > In the event the President does not himself attend
such
> a
> > >
> > > > > meeting he
> > >
> > > > > > > > may appoint the Vice-President or some other member
of
> > >
> > > the
> > >
> > > > > General
> > >
> > > > > > > > Council to preside in his stead.
> > >
> > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > On the basis of these Regulations and with the use of
> > >
> > > > internet
> > >
> > > > > > > > technology an extended discussion panel can be formed
> to
> > >
> > > > address
> > >
> > > > > > > > important critical issues. With making such
discussion
> > >
> > > > panel
> > >
> > > > > public
> > >
> > > > > > > > the Theosophical Society would show to its members
and
> > >
> > > > public in
> > >
> > > > > > > > general that it is able to overcome divisions and
find
> a
> > >
> > > > common
> > >
> > > > > > > > interest according to the philosophy the Society is
> > >
> > > > promoting.
> > >
> > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > This is, in my opinion, the only way out from the
death
> > >
> > > > alley
> > >
> > > > > we are
> > >
> > > > > > > > catched in.
> > >
> > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > > Warmest regards,
> > >
> > > > > > > > Anton
> > >
> > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > ------------ ---- ---- -
> > >
> > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > ------------ -------- -------- -----
> > >
> > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
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> > >
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> > >
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> > >
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> > >
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> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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> > >
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