Theos-Talk Archives (November 2008 Message tt00158)

I recall seeing some msgs on Acropolis in the past. I am sure they are in
the archives of this list. Anyone interested can search the archives.

mkr


On 11/9/08, Augoeides-222@comcast.net <Augoeides-222@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Hmmm,
>   Well many people here never even heard of "The New Acropolis" or it's
> successor "The School of Hastinapura" they both taught Theosophy. I was a
> founding member of the Western USA New Acropolis in LA, the Director was and
> may still be a Member of this Forum ands ws also one of the national
> featured lecturers used by Wheaton Hdqtrs. The two organizations were
> originally founded by George Angel Rivlag, Cheviale' de Spain, and his wife
> Ada Albrecht. They had Branches in Europe, America, and So. America back in
> the mid- 1907's. The School of Hastinapura originated when a division
> occurred between the Husband and wife Team. around 1978 or '79.
>   One could research using Reference Works like "The Directory of
> Associations", I used to have it, but I donated it to a community library.
>
> Regards,
> John
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: "Morten Nymann Olesen" <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk>
>
> Yes.
> But, where is the present day work in other parts of the world, which the
> Master talked about?
> Have some theosophists for years been underestimating the Himalayan Lodge
> and the Masters?
>
> And:
> What were the lecturer Ernest Wood engaged in before he died?
> What happened to Alice Leighton Cleather and Basil Crump in their lives?
> What happened to all those wise members who went away when CWL was admitted
> inside again in 1908?
>
> M. Sufilight
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Martin
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 8:03 PM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Re:TS - Are we ready for a coup?
>
> "There is more of this movement than you have yet had an inkling of, and
> the work of the T.S. is linked in with similar work that is secretly
> going on in all parts of the world."
>
> Guys&Dolls, this sais it all. It doesn't matter if the TS is burned to
> smithereens; there is always a backup to be launched immediately under a
> different name with different people, but with the same noble hearts driving
> its course.
> So puleaaaase quit this dramatic behavior and start preparing the
> fireworks...
>
> --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk>
> wrote:
> From: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk>
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Re:TS - Are we ready for a coup?
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 1:11 PM
>
> Dear Anton
>
> About the "dangerous" issue:
>
> What you cannot change will die out. Just like ancient religions from ages
> past.
>
> Some branches do not bear fruit, and will heva to be released by other
> branches.
>
> Mahatma Letter 47:
>
> "So let us talk -- for sharp as your voice may be, your heart is warm and
> you end by saying "Whether you decree that what seems to me right be done or
> not" you are ever ours faithfully etc. Europe is a large place but the world
> is bigger yet. The sun of Theosophy must shine for all, not for a part.
> There is more of this movement than you have yet had an inkling of, and the
> work of the T.S. is linked in with similar work that is secretly going on in
> all parts of the world. " (http://www.theosoci ety.org/pasadena /mahatma/
> ml-47.htm)
>
> Anton wrote:
>
> "And because members are not nucleuses of brotherhood yet"
>
> My answer:
>
> Do you know that?
>
> Think about what you actually are saying.
>
> Anton wrote:
>
> "Well, the experience with the Esoteric Section shows that it didn't
>
> achieve its goal "
>
> My answer:
>
> Some attempt end up in failure. And some persons fall on the Path.
>
> It seems obvious, that Annie Besant tripped fell, although she also did
> something good.
>
> Anton wrote:
>
> "Here I agree with Krishnamurti: You can not organize the
>
> Spiritual Path. It is a matter of each individual."
>
> My answer:
>
> But H. P. Blavatsky and the Masters did organise it, in part, and with some
> success!
>
> Because the real organisation is the Himalyan Lodge or the Master Lodge.
>
> Saying that the Masters are not esoterically organised and dis-organised is
> rubbish as far as I am concerned. The Path is the Law of Karma. The Law of
> Karma is organised esoterically.
>
> And no it is NOT as you say "a matter of each individual" alone.
>
> In one sense your are quite right. But in another, it is a clear fact, that
> we can never walk alone.
>
> Never Anton. The world and the Oneness are there simultaniously. It is a
> paradox.
>
> Should we abandon Masters teachings and follow J. Krishnamurti and reject
> all thoughts about chelaship, and learn to use occult powers by our own?
>
> Never. Never ever.
>
> M. Sufilight
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Anton Rozman
>
> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>
> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 11:41 AM
>
> Subject: Theos-World Re:TS - Are we ready for a coup?
>
> Dear Morten,
>
> >Why is that a dangerous model?<
>
> It is dangerous because it detours round the Society's constitutional
>
> platform and its democratic process.
>
> >The main idea with the TS was and is hopefully, that each member
>
> will be strong enough to become a nucleus in herself or himself.<
>
> This is an ideal to strive for but not the reality of the situation.
>
> And because members are not nucleuses of brotherhood yet they should
>
> apply to constitutional frame which role is to instruct and force
>
> them to behave in a fraternal manner.
>
> >So creating a new TS running parallel with the present TS is not bad
>
> at all if the present TS is not running properly.<
>
> Well, the experience with the Esoteric Section shows that it didn't
>
> achieve its goal and that its members didn't become cohesive and
>
> fraternal force in the TS, quite the contrary. Every organization
>
> established by a spiritual authority for the spiritual progress of
>
> its members sooner or later becomes by default autocratic and
>
> dogmatic. Here I agree with Krishnamurti: You can not organize the
>
> Spiritual Path. It is a matter of each individual.
>
> >Each member is only a member voluntarily.
>
> Each group its own nucleus.
>
> One should know one on ones fruits.
>
> And importantly: One should recognize truth when it is proven.<
>
> Yes, exactly. Why create new TS which will possibly respect the
>
> original program, constitutional platform and objects in a greater
>
> degree if this is possible already within the present TS as every
>
> lodge, national society and federation has all freedom to do that.
>
> The work must be done from the ground not from the top. The top can
>
> just encourage this with its own example. There are no shortcuts to
>
> greater democracy and spirituality - every member has to do her/his
>
> own homework.
>
> >This is the idea of TS and the beginning to Chela-ship.<
>
> Well, this is the big question. Is the TS a tool for Chela-ship? On
>
> individual level it can and should be. But I think that it is much
>
> more than that. It is a tool for greater harmony and peace in the
>
> world - if it will work as it was meant to work.
>
> Warmest regards,
>
> Anton
>
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen" <global-
>
> theosophy@.. .> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Dear Anton and friends
>
> >
>
> > My views are:
>
> >
>
> > Anton wrote:
>
> > "In that way she established, in my view, a very dangerous model,
>
> > namely that any person who considers herself/himself or is regarded
>
> > by others as a spiritual teacher can arbitrarily decide who is
>
> loyal
>
> > to the Cause and original program of the Society and act
>
> accordingly. "
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > M. Sufilight says:
>
> > Why is that a dangerous model?
>
> >
>
> > The main idea with the TS was and is hopefully, that each member
>
> will be strong enough to become a nucleus in herself or himself. So
>
> creating a new TS running parallel with the present TS is not bad at
>
> all if the present TS is not running properly.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Each member are only a member volunterely.
>
> >
>
> > Each group its own nucleus.
>
> > One should know one on ones fruits.
>
> > And importantly: One should recognize truth when it is proven.
>
> >
>
> > "The bitter truth is that before man can know his own inadequacy,
>
> or the
>
> > competence of another man or institution, he must first learn
>
> something
>
> > which will enable him to perceive both. Note well that his
>
> perception
>
> > itself is a product of right study; not of instinct or emotional
>
> > attraction to the individual, nor yet of desiring to 'go it alone'.
>
> This
>
> > is 'Learning How To
>
> > Learn." (Idries Shah)
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > This is the idea of TS and the beginning to Chela-ship.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > M. Sufilight
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
>
> > From: Anton Rozman
>
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
>
> > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 7:05 AM
>
> > Subject: Theos-World Re:TS - Are we ready for a coup?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Dear friends,
>
> >
>
> > I think that we, members of the TS, can do an enormous service to
>
> the
>
> > humanity if we will be able to solve the Society's problems in a
>
> > democratic and fraternal manner. This is the reason why efforts
>
> to
>
> > reform the Society are worthwhile.
>
> >
>
> > Morten, you touched, in my opinion, the crucial problem: HPB
>
> actually
>
> > said that she is loyal to HSO, not because he is President of the
>
> > Society but because he is loyal to the Theosophical Cause and
>
> that
>
> > the degree of her sympathy with the Theosophical Society and
>
> Adyar
>
> > depends upon the degree of loyalty of that Society to the Cause.
>
> > Should it break away or show disloyalty to that Cause, and the
>
> > original program of the Society, she would shake it off like dust
>
> > from her feet.
>
> >
>
> > In that way she established, in my view, a very dangerous model,
>
> > namely that any person who considers herself/himself or is
>
> regarded
>
> > by others as a spiritual teacher can arbitrarily decide who is
>
> loyal
>
> > to the Cause and original program of the Society and act
>
> accordingly.
>
> > And already superficial overview of the TS history shows that
>
> those
>
> > who considered themselves or were viewed by others as spiritual
>
> > leaders (who are in touch with Masters or know what Masters
>
> thought)
>
> > were at the same time source of disagreements and schisms in the
>
> > Society. This model is still very alive and I think that the
>
> Society
>
> > will not be able to solve its problems if it will not be able to
>
> > address this issue properly.
>
> >
>
> > And Richard's parody is wonderful indication of our ludicrous
>
> > situation.
>
> >
>
> > Warmest regards,
>
> > Anton
>
> >
>
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, Drpsionic@ wrote:
>
> > >
>
> > > Choke choke laugh laugh choke laugh!
>
> > >
>
> > > The scare part it is that it might be true!
>
> > >
>
> > > Chuck the Heretic
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > In a message dated 11/8/2008 6:55:16 P.M. Central Standard
>
> Time,
>
> > > semockr@ writes:
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > I have heard that the Dalai Lama is dropping out of his
>
> position
>
> > as
>
> > > figurehead or spokesman for a free Tibet since none of his
>
> > > initiatives in this regard have had the slightest impact on the
>
> > > communist govt that has Tibet in its deadly embrace.
>
> > >
>
> > > This implys that president elect Obama has approached him with
>
> an
>
> > > offer to join his Administration of Change as secretary of
>
> Ancient
>
> > > Wisdom which is a new department that is being formed in the
>
> > > executive branch. DK & KH were originally approached for the
>
> > position
>
> > > but they would only agree to precipitate an email now and then
>
> by
>
> > way
>
> > > of communication and this was not sufficient contact to satisfy
>
> > the
>
> > > ex-hippies that Obama is seeding his cabinet with.
>
> > >
>
> > > For the first time in history then, the SD has a real chance to
>
> > > replace the Bible and to have Theosophy occupy its rightful
>
> place
>
> > as
>
> > > Law of the Land in the USA. After this has taken place, the
>
> other
>
> > > countrys will fall in line and Theosophy will experience a
>
> > resurgence
>
> > > that will beggar description of any previous coup.
>
> > >
>
> > > --- In _theos-talk@ yahoogrotheos- t_ (mailto:theos-
>
> > talk@yahoogroups. com) ,
>
> > > MKR <mkr777@> wrote:
>
> > > >
>
> > > > Well said.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > "Proof of the pudding is in the eating."
>
> > > >
>
> > > > Looking at the membership trend over the last 20 years world-
>
> > wide
>
> > > outside of
>
> > > > India, there is a continuing steep decline. It continues
>
> every
>
> > > minute.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > The structure of TS was deliberately setup by the wise ones
>
> with
>
> > > total
>
> > > > autonomy at lodge and section levels. So the buck stops at
>
> the
>
> > > sections.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > To address any problem, first correct problem has to be
>
> > identified.
>
> > > Then
>
> > > > solutions can be found.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > Today's critical problem of TS is steep decline in membership
>
> in
>
> > all
>
> > > > sections outside India. This is obvious. None of
>
> the "leaders"
>
> > > even wants
>
> > > > to talk about it, because much of the decline took place in
>
> > their
>
> > > watch and
>
> > > > they have no explanation.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > Meddling with International Rules is not going to do anything
>
> to
>
> > > address the
>
> > > > membership growth, because TS is not a spiritual organization
>
> > held
>
> > > together
>
> > > > by blind followers with blind faith and blind beliefs.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > It is all about a handful of GC members trying to do away
>
> with
>
> > > members'
>
> > > > rights and seize power. That would give access to all the
>
> assets
>
> > > which they
>
> > > > can spend as they want. In addition, they can put their
>
> Puppet
>
> > as
>
> > > the
>
> > > > President with wings clipped. Losers will be members, TS and
>
> > > theosophy.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > And it would destroy TS in our life time, as members leave.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > That is where we are today.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > MKR
>
> > > >
>
> > > > On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 6:05 AM, Duane Carpenter
>
> > > <monad_monad_ monad_mon
>
> > > > > wrote:
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > All membership comes from inspiration. All inspiration
>
> comes
>
> > from
>
> > > > > enlightened leadership. It often takes great luminaries
>
> like
>
> > HPB
>
> > > to light a
>
> > > > > fire in those around them. If the structure of the
>
> Theosophical
>
> > > > > Society keeps out purposely or by default those of advanced
>
> > > spiritual
>
> > > > > development they will never attract new members. If new and
>
> > > enlightened
>
> > > > > leadership do not come into an organization or institution
>
> to
>
> > > give it
>
> > > > > continue renewal and spiritual life that institution will
>
> die
>
> > a
>
> > > slow
>
> > > > > agonizing death from bureaucratic minutiae and
>
> organizational
>
> > > suffocation.
>
> > > > > This is why some advocate revolution. If you cannot reform
>
> and
>
> > > change the
>
> > > > > old structures you either create new ones in there place or
>
> > get
>
> > > out of the
>
> > > > > way and let those more responsive to the new Aquarian
>
> impulses
>
> > do
>
> > > there
>
> > > > > work.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > DC
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > ____________ ____ ____
>
> > > > > From: MKR <mkr777@>
>
> > > > > To: _theos-talk@ yahoogrotheos- t_ (mailto:theos-
>
> > talk@yahoogroups. com)
>
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 8, 2008 6:46:43 AM
>
> > > > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re:TS - Are we ready for a coup?
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > From an ordinary intelligent person's view, as I have
>
> > mentioned
>
> > > several
>
> > > > > time
>
> > > > > previously, the most urgent real issue facing the TS is NOT
>
> > > changing the
>
> > > > > rules.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > It is the rapid and continuing decline in the number of
>
> > members
>
> > > in all the
>
> > > > > sections outside India.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > TS was setup as fully autonomous at lodge and section
>
> levels.
>
> > So
>
> > > the
>
> > > > > problem
>
> > > > > is the problem of section leaders and hard work of the
>
> members
>
> > in
>
> > > the
>
> > > > > section. Any amount of meddling with the rules is going to
>
> do
>
> > > nothing to
>
> > > > > address the problem. The only thing that will do to by
>
> > tweaking
>
> > > and
>
> > > > > meddling
>
> > > > > with the rules is for the GC members to disenfranchise the
>
> > > members and
>
> > > > > seize
>
> > > > > the control of the presidency and thus effectively making
>
> the
>
> > > president a
>
> > > > > puppet in the hands of a few GC members.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > Once this happens, in our life time we will see the end of
>
> TS
>
> > > because we
>
> > > > > are
>
> > > > > not like other spiritual organizations whose basis is blind
>
> > faith
>
> > > and blind
>
> > > > > beliefs.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > Has anyone seen any GC member ever mention the membership
>
> > decline
>
> > > issue? It
>
> > > > > is a very sorry state of affairs.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > mkr
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 2:17 AM, Anton Rozman
>
> <anton_rozman@ ant>
>
> > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > > Dear friends,
>
> > > > > >
>
> > > > > > What is the main interest of the Theosophical Society as
>
> an
>
> > > > > > international institution or common interest of all
>
> members
>
> > of
>
> > > the
>
> > > > > > Theosophical Society?
>
> > > > > >
>
> > > > > > In first place, to neutralize all partial interests of
>
> > > individual
>
> > > > > > members or groups of members which identify themselves
>
> with
>
> > > those of
>
> > > > > > the Theosophical Society and in that way to be able to
>
> > realize
>
> > > its
>
> > > > > > objects on the basis of its constitutional platform. In
>
> > present
>
> > > > > > situation common interest is wholly absent and crippled.
>
> > > > > >
>
> > > > > > The scissors and linen to overcome it are wholly in the
>
> > hands
>
> > > of the
>
> > > > > > elected President. She, and only she, has received a
>
> mandate
>
> > to
>
> > > unify
>
> > > > > > the Society under a common interest. She has the power
>
> and
>
> > > authority
>
> > > > > > to do that.
>
> > > > > >
>
> > > > > > It is obvious that routine proceedings aren't enough to
>
> > solve
>
> > > actual
>
> > > > > > problem. According to Rules and Regulations the President
>
> has
>
> > > > > > authority to: ââ,¬Â¦ a special meeting may be called at
>
> any
>
> > time by
>
> > > the
>
> > > > > > President ââ,¬Â¦ the President at his discretion may
>
> call such
>
> > > members to
>
> > > > > > a meeting for the purpose of study and discussion of any
>
> > matters
>
> > > > > > concerning the Society that he considers appropriate to
>
> lay
>
> > > before
>
> > > > > > them. The meeting may then forward to the President its
>
> > report
>
> > > on
>
> > > > > > such matters and may make recommendations thereon. Such
>
> > meetings
>
> > > > > > shall be of a consultative nature without administrative
>
> or
>
> > > > > > legislative authority, or may be of a legislative nature
>
> > upon
>
> > > the
>
> > > > > > decision of the General Council taken at least one year
>
> in
>
> > > advance.
>
> > > > > > In the event the President does not himself attend such a
>
> > > meeting he
>
> > > > > > may appoint the Vice-President or some other member of
>
> the
>
> > > General
>
> > > > > > Council to preside in his stead.
>
> > > > > >
>
> > > > > > On the basis of these Regulations and with the use of
>
> > internet
>
> > > > > > technology an extended discussion panel can be formed to
>
> > address
>
> > > > > > important critical issues. With making such discussion
>
> > panel
>
> > > public
>
> > > > > > the Theosophical Society would show to its members and
>
> > public in
>
> > > > > > general that it is able to overcome divisions and find a
>
> > common
>
> > > > > > interest according to the philosophy the Society is
>
> > promoting.
>
> > > > > >
>
> > > > > > This is, in my opinion, the only way out from the death
>
> > alley
>
> > > we are
>
> > > > > > catched in.
>
> > > > > >
>
> > > > > > Warmest regards,
>
> > > > > > Anton
>
> > > > > >
>
> > > > > >
>
> > > > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > ------------ ---- ---- -
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > ------------ -------- -------- -----
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
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> > > ************ **AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes
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> and
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> > all other
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> > > Holiday needs. Search Now.
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> > >
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> (http://pr.atwola. com/promoclk/ 100000075x121279 2382x1200798498/ aol?
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> > redir=http://searchblog. aol.com/2008/ 11/04/happy- holidays- from
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> > > -aol-search/ ?ncid=emlcntusse ar00000001)
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> > >
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> ------------------------------------
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> Yahoo! Groups Links
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>


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