Theos-Talk Archives (October 2008 Message tt00434)

I am not so sure that the Brits had anomisity towards the Russians - after all they were all related

Cass



----- Original Message ----
From: MKR <mkr777@gmail.com>
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, 16 October, 2008 10:52:29 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: "...we have to preach and popularise a knowledge of theos...


Chuck: I did not know all these connections. Now, I can get some real sense
why they were chosen to launch the TS project, not any run of the mill
bureucrat or academician. In those days, British Residents were all powerful
and could have put them in the next ship and sent them out. But dare not do
it due the various International issues you mentioned. I could see the
frustrations that the Residents went thru dealing with the gordian knot of
dealing with them.

mkr

On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 7:49 PM, <Drpsionic@aol. com> wrote:

> She certainly ended up preaching them.
>
> The peculiar social positions of not only HPB but Col. Olcott as well
> created all manner of trouble for the British. They did not want them in
> India but
> they could not throw them out because they were there with US diplomatic
> passports and in those days wars started over that sort of thing. HPB
> herself
> had family connections that made her more than a little relative (and the
> word
> "little" applied to HPB is peculiar to say the least. She would only be
> considered little in relation to an aircraft carrier.), her cousin, Count
> Witte
> became Prime Minister of Russia. Col. Olcott was a drinking buddy of the US
>
> President and when they arrived in Ceylon, the US consul in Colombia had
> been
> under Olcott during the Civil War. (Or, as we Northerners call it, The War
> of the Slaveholders' Rebellion) I've always found it more than a little
> amusing that their biographers tend to overlook the importance of those
> connections.
>
> The situation of a Russian noblewoman with her family connections, even
> though now a US citizen, and someone who had been really highly placed in
> US
> politics, combined with the close diplomatic ties between Russia and the US
> at
> that time must have driven the British mad with paranoia. We tend to look
> at
> these things through the lens of the Cold War, but during most of the 19th
> Century Russia and US were very closely aligned and during the Civil War
> Russia
> had been a de-facto ally of the Union. At the close of the Civil War, the
> British were terrified that the Union Navy, whose effective combat strength
> at
> that time actually dwarfed the British Navy and could have easily swept the
>
> Union Jack from the seas, would join with the Russians to seize India in
> retaliation for Britain's role on the side of the rebels. (This became on
> odd
> theme in Europe and as late as WW2, Goebbels wrote in his diary that the US
> was
> going to demand India as payment from the British for saving their skins.
> Nonsense of course, but the idea was still floating around even then.(
>
> So the "trade mission" of Blavatsky and Olcott to India looked a lot
> different to the Brits than it did to anyone else. They saw it is a prelude
> to
> something very bad but they were not quite sure what.
>
> Chuck the Heretic
>
>
> In a message dated 10/15/2008 7:09:25 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
> silva_cass@yahoo. com <silva_cass% 40yahoo.com> writes:
>
> I imagine she was regarded by the Victorian British Aristocracy at the time
>
> as that meddling little relative of the Tsar causing nothing but trouble
> and
> dissention in the Empire - I imagine she operated in the Victorian system -
>
> well there was nothing outside of it to operate under - but as far as
> embracing it - I say no - I say she didn't appear to follow the social
> morays of her
> day.
>
> Cass
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "_Drpsionic@aol. Drp <_Drpsionic% 40aol.Drp> _ (mailto:
> Drpsionic@aol. com <Drpsionic%40aol. com>) " <_Drpsionic@aol. Drp<_Drpsionic% 40aol.Drp> _
>
> (mailto:Drpsionic@aol. com <Drpsionic%40aol. com>) >
> To: _theos-talk@ yahoogrotheos- t_ (mailto:theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com<theos-talk% 40yahoogroups. com>)
>
> Sent: Thursday, 16 October, 2008 2:37:58 AM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: "...we have to preach and popularise a
> knowledge of theos...
>
> That's just what I said!
>
> Chuck the Heretic
>
> In a message dated 10/15/2008 8:33:09 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
> silva_cass@yahoo. com writes:
>
> Well Chuck, you can't get away from the rellies no matter how hard you try.
>
> If she drew on her own inheritance I don't see a problem with it, at least
> it didn't come out of the public coffers.
>
> She wasn't bringing these teachings as a missionary but to well educated -
> well connected victorian intellectuals - how else would her works have been
>
> published had she been a little unknown russian gypsy fortune teller?
>
> Cass
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "_Drpsionic@ From: "_Drpsionic@ <WBR>aol. Drp_From:
> "_Drps<_Drpsionic@ _Drpsionic@ <WB
> (mailto:Drpsionic@ (mailto:Dr>
> To: _theos-talk@ yahoogrotheos- t_ (mailto:theos- To: _theos-talk@ yahoog
> Sent: Wednesday, 15 October, 2008 3:35:54 PM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: "...we have to preach and popularise a
> knowledge of theos...
>
> Hardly. That is the image. The real HPB was always Countess Yelena
> Petrovna Blavatskaya, and although she dropped the Countess when she became
>
> an
> American citizen, she was always able to draw funds from the Russian
> government
> set aside by her family and her social rank opened a lot of doors that
> otherwise would have been slammed in her face. And that standing enabled
> her
> to get
> away with what she did.
>
> She was a character, but she was very very much a part of her time even
> though she made fun of it, just like I am a part of my time even though I
> make
> fun of everything.
>
> Now understand that I am not attacking HPB for any of this. It is merely
> important that we realize the essentials of her humanity and how they
> impacted
> her work.
>
> Chuck the heretic
>
> In a message dated 10/14/2008 5:58:02 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
> silva_cass@yahoo. com writes:
>
> But Chuck, HPB sat outside the Victorian system and in fact mocked it
> through its religion and its social morays - smoking being a minor but
> prime
>
> example of not conforming to the 'ladylike" victorian image.
>
> Cass
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "_Drpsionic@ From: "_Drpsionic@ <WBR>aol. Drp_From:
> "_Drps<_Drpsionic@ _Drpsionic@ <WB
> (mailto:Drpsionic@ (mailto:Dr>
> To: _theos-talk@ yahoogrotheos- t_ (mailto:theos- To: _theos-talk@ yahoog
> Sent: Wednesday, 15 October, 2008 2:32:32 AM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: "...we have to preach and popularise a
> knowledge of theos...
>
> I am saying that HPB was clearly wrong and when she said that she was
> merely
> being a person of her time and culture. She was being a good Victorian,
> wanting to create a social system for other people to live in. It was a
> sort
> of
> weird blip in the zeitgeist.
>
> As to how, there are any number of systems, Zen coming to mind immediately.
>
> Chuck the Heretic
>
> In a message dated 10/14/2008 9:15:41 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
> adelasie@sbcglobal. net writes:
>
> Assuming you are making a serious statement, may I suggest that
> behavior is the path to enlightenment? When HPB said that (and I
> paraphrase) occultism is altruism, wasn't she suggesting that it is
> how we behave more than what we read that determines our progress in
> the evolution of consciousness? How does a person attain
> enlightenment in a material form without regard to behavior?
>
> Adelasie
>
> On 13 Oct 2008 at 22:37, _Drpsionic@aol. Drp_ (mailto:Drpsionic@ On 13 Oct
>
> wrote:
>
> >
> > No, it really doesn't. It just gets in the way at all kinds of
> > levels. And
> > in regard to the nature of the cosmos it really does not matter. When
> > the
> > Sun goes nova, the just and the unjust will fry alike.
> >
> > We really need to separate behavior from enlightenment, otherwise we
> > will
> > keep tripping over Musashi, who attained enlightenment by the process
> > of
> > killing sixty three men in single combat.
> >
> > Chuck the heretic
>
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