Theos-Talk Archives (October 2008 Message tt00284)

I am being deadly serious.
 
Theosophy was created in the late 19th century and as such internalized the  
culture of that time.  But the culture has changed radically.   Consider that 
when the SD was written, there was no Uncertainty Principal,  no quantum 
mechanics, no general relativity.  They never heard of the human  genome.  And the 
culture was radically different, in ways that if one of  the founders landed 
in our time they would not recognize it and they would be  shocked beyond 
belief.
 
The values that society holds dear are vastly different.  We little  use for 
the ideals of the Victorians and laugh at their concepts of purity and  honor. 
 The Master KH could call one of  his colleagues, "the sternest  of the 
Khobilligans," and not be greeted with laughter like the statement was  when 
someone read it in the Olcott library nearly 20 years ago.  Stern is  not a virtue 
to us, it is an invitation to get a pie in the face.
 
Yet our brethren hold onto antiquated notions of society, quote language  
that no one can make sense of any more and think that psuedo-sanskrit will  
impress people.  And we do not have to concern ourselves with the  occasional 
censorious buffoon who somehow thinks that his objections  matter.
 
We need to get rid of the kindling, the deadwood, the things that just have  
not worked.  The proper way to look at the old material is not to just  quote 
it and expect everyone to assent.  It is to look at it and ask, is  this 
really true, or what was the Master drinking when he came up with that  one?
 
And thus the truth of the matter is that I really do not care what the  
Masters said, or what the SD says in and of itself.  Those are just words  and we 
have gazillions of words to choose from.  We need to question  question 
question and not stop questioning because some moron is impressed with  an imbecile 
like Milarepa or thinks that every word from the Mahatmas is a  golden dripping 
from the nose of God.
 
And we need most of all to get past this notion that the internal politics  
of the TS somehow matters.  who cares who is in charge of mowing the lawn  at 
Adyar?
 
Can I go too far?  Not in this lifetime.
 
Chuck, who is very much the Heretic
 
In a message dated 10/12/2008 7:44:46 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
adelasie@sbcglobal.net writes:

 
 
 
ROFL...or...ROFL...or...<WBR>could it be u r bein

On 12 Oct  2008 at 11:47, _Drpsionic@aol.Drp_ (mailto:Drpsionic@aol.com)   
wrote:

> 
> Actually I love it when people get steamed at my  ideas. It is sort of 
> like
> they suddenly get "kick me" signs  taped to their backs.
> 
> The problem with some folks is that  they think that being a 
> Theosophist is
> like being some damned  fool Baptist, and everyone sits around 
> agreeing with
>  everything. No no no. You have to question everything, including your
>  fundamental premises. The Masters are not to be worshipped, their 
>  words are not
> holy writ. The mere fact that the Chohan said something  does not make 
> it true.
> It only means that he was in a rotten  mood when he wrote it.
> 
> There are times that if I had my way I  would burn all those musty old 
> books
> because there are times  when it seems that would be the only way to 
> get light
> out of  them.
> 
> In any event, I will continue to follow my old  philosophy of 
> rhetoric, which
> says that if someone says you  have gone too far, you have not yet 
> gone far
> enough.
>  
> Chuck the Heretic
> 
> 
> In a message dated  10/12/2008 9:33:04 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
> _mkr777@gmail.mkr_ (mailto:mkr777@gmail.com)  writes:
>  
> Welcome to the group. I am not the moderator either.
> 
>  This group has been around for more than a decade and it takes time 
>  for
> newbees to settle down here. From time to time you will find gems  
> here that
> you cannot find anywhere else. Patience will pay  heavy rewards in the 
> long
> run.
> 
> mkr
>  
> On 10/12/08, alex <_alexmorgan777@_alexmorgan7
>  (mailto:_alexmorgan777@alexmorgan7_ (mailto:alexmorgan777@hotmail.com) )  
> wrote:
> >
> > Is this funny for everyone here?
>  > I'm not sure why the moderator is passively ok with this and even
>  > allows you to showoff your website. Is he still alive? I don't  know
> > about others but I'm starting to get tired of deleting your  messages
> > from my inbox.
> > This crap is not Theosophy,  this is just bored goofing around that
> > spoils things for others,  and makes the new comer puke on the whole
> > group and  leave.
> > The Unity of Mind is lacking in here already, I don't  think we need
> > to see this nonsense anymore.
> >
>  > Chuck, why don't you try to be like Milarepa and turn things  around,
> > become the first Enlightened man in modern times to  abandon the path
> > of sorcery and black magic?
> > Think  about it Chuck, you will increase the membership, peoples
> >  participation and get all our votes if you choose to run and
> >  promulgate the DOCTRINE of the Buddhas!
> > What do you think?  :)
> >
> > Alex
> >
> > --- In  _theos-talk@ --- In  _t --- In  _theo
> _talk@yahoogroups.tal_ (mailto:talk@yahoogroups.com) )
>  <theos-talk%theos-talk%<WBthe>,
> > Drpsionic@..  Drpsionic@.
> > >
> > > Ok, the very first thing we  have to do is get rid of those 
> obsolete
> > ideas of
>  > > purity, self-denial, charity, etc and concentrate on finding  what
> > really is
> > > going on.
> >  >
> > > Chuck the heretic
> > >
> >  >
> > > In a message dated 10/11/2008 4:06:19 P.M. Central  Daylight Time,
> > > danielhcaldwell@ danielhcal
> >  >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  "For our doctrines to practically react on the so called moral 
>  code
> > > or the ideas of truthfulness, purity, self-denial,  charity, etc.,
> > we
> > > have to preach and popularise  a knowledge of theosophy."
> > >
> > > Quoted from a  letter from the Chohan
> > > ___http://www.theosoci_ (http://www.theosoci/)  
_http://www.http:http://wwwhttp://wwhtt_ (http://www.http://wwwhttp://wwhttp://_) 
>  (_http://www.theosoci_ (http://www.theosoci/)  
_http://www.theoshtthttp://www.http://_ (http://www.theoshttp://wwhttp://www._) )
>  > > (__http://www.theosoci_ (http://www.theosoci/)  
_http://www.theoshtthttp://www.http://_ (http://www.theoshttp://wwhttp://www._) 
>  (_http://www.theosoci_ (http://www.theosoci/)   ety.org/pasadena/  ety.or  
ety.or
> > >
>  > > So exactly what do we preach and popularise?
> >  >
> > > Are there certain teachings that constitute this  "theosophy"? And
> > if
> > > so, what are these  teachings?
> > >
> > > And where do we find these  teachings?
> > >
> > > And how do we learn about them  and study them so that in turn we
> > > can "preach and  popularise" them?
> > >
> > > And who is "we"? The  leaders of the TS? Elected officials of the
> > > TS? Any member  of the TS?
> > >
> > > And remember there is more than  one TS or theosophical 
> organization
> > > or  association.
> > >
> > > Can non-members preach and  popularise this theosophy?
> > >
> > > And in this  same letter, the Chohan tells us:
> > >
> > >  ------------ ---- ---- ---- ----
> > > The doctrine we promulgate  being the only true one, must, --
> > > supported by such evidence  as we are preparing to give become
> > > ultimately triumphant as  every other truth. Yet it is absolutely
> > > necessary to  inculcate it gradually enforcing its theories,
> > > unimpeachable  facts for those who know, with direct inferences
> > > deducted  from and corroborated by the evidence furnished by modern
> > >  exact science.... Theos-sophia, Divine Wisdom...is a synonym of
> >  > truth....
> > > ------------ ---- ---- ---- ----
> >  >
> > > This is quite a CLAIM.
> > >
> >  > "The doctrine we promulgate being the only true one...."
> >  >
> > > So what is this DOCTRINE that is "the ONLY true one"  and where can
> > we
> > > find an exposition of this  teaching?
> > >
> > > Is it to be found in THE SECRET  DOCTRINE written by H.P. 
> Blavatsky?
> > >
> >  > Or can it be found in C.W. Leadbeater's and Annie Besant's "Man,
>  > > Whence, How, and Whither: A Record of Clairvoyant  Investigation"
> > >
> > > Or in a book by Alice  Bailey? or....in a book by Elizabeth Claire
> > > Prophet?
>  > >
> > > If "we" are to popularise a knowledge of  Theosophy, what exactly 
> do
> > > we popularise?
>  > >
> > > Is reincarnation part of this DOCTRINE?
>  > >
> > > What if I start popularising the teaching of  reincarnation that
> > > includes the provision that humans can  sometimes be reborn as
> > > animals?
> > >
>  > > Am I faithfully transmitting the DOCTRINE?
> > >
>  > > And who is to say that I am faithfully or not transmitting  the
> > > DOCTRINE?
> > >
> > > In other  words, who is to say what the REAL, TRUE "doctrine" is?
> >  >
> > > The objects of the TS doesn't tell us what the DOCTRINE  is all
> > about,
> > > so where and how does one [an  inquirer, a newcomer] discover what
> > the
> > >  DOCTRINE is that the Chohan seems to hold in SUCH high regard?
> >  >
> > > Daniel
> > > ___http://hpb.cc_h_ (http://hpb.cc__/)  (_http://hpb.cc_h_ 
(http://hpb.cc_/) ) (__http://hpb.cc/h_ (http://hpb.cc/_)  
> (_http://hpb.cc/_ (http://hpb.cc/) ) )
> >  >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >  >
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