Re: Theos-World Power Structures & Theosophical Societies, Groups
Oct 12, 2008 01:13 PM
by Raquel Rodríguez
Hallo Anton
It took me a wile to respond, because it took me a while to read articles you send me.
I am glad you find of common sense my perspective, but I have to say after reading and getting more information about the whole subject, I have got myself very confused in the sense I really doubt my simple common sense in such a complex subject can help. But as I have been reading I have also been meditating.
Analogy it is better for me to use.
a.- Here in Granada we had buildings and irrigation systems sowing a the great knowledge of the people who constructed them, from the times of Moors. When Christians conquered the kingdom they where also so amazed by the engineer works, they wanted to amplified them, to show they were at lest as intelligent or even more,. They amplified an irrigation system that using natural wells from the mountain was able to give clean watter for house holding, hygiene and farming to all the citizens, rather close to their houses. So they made more canals and more containers. Not understanding the physical laws of the engineer that had design them, the only think they could do was to mix the clean watter with polluted one. In this way, all kind of diseases and pest afflicted the population and here we are in the inauguration of the dark middle ages.
Other amazing buildings where modified on it´s structure to be also amplified. There is nothing left of the original as with the touching of the structure this became weaker and the whole building had to be reform in a very different way.
What do I mean with this?
What is the original structure of the Theosophical society and who their architects. No one who does not fully understand the Mean of the architect and it,scientific knowledge should transform such an structure.
I understand that the main object of TS is Brotherhood. This should be enough for people to work on the Theosophical building which central pillar is THE DOCTRINE teached by their architects. Ancient Wisdom.
I also understand that in the building should be room for people of all creeds, and I don not believe that different, means contradictory. And who are the ones who are meant to maintain the original structure and teach it ?,
Should Theosophical Movement be the speakers corner of anyone who thinks has understood the doctrine and even more, has amplified it and even gone further than the Masters themselves.
What happens when someone does not accept corrections even when coming direct from the architects and still persist in teaching a Doctrine when he is actually hallucinating and the architects themselves are warning that is an hallucination?.
I can imagine some people are resentfull. It has to be very hard to work on such a contradictional frame where others people work undo others labor. And all out of goodness. And I understand all points of view should be respected. But what happens when certain point of view becomes insulting? I´m not a good person to answer I have not such patience.
Some people desire that the society returns to the happy days when HPB was alive, so then What was the basic structure then and what made it crumble? Is it not the cause that made it crumble one day the one that is making crumble now what it should be corrected?
To the way I see it, Theosophical Society was united when all members trusted their Masters and believed their teachings to be Truth. Truth should awake ones common sense and leave no doubt about it, still for the ones who are still on the beginning on the path, that can not see further, the only way to get a proof of what is being said about further on the path, it is very complicated, at least you are told by a person who has been there and you can trust this person is not lieing.
The Masters and HPB, made a extraordinary effort, to proof, they had the authority to talk about a path they had walked themselves and to my point of view, no one but them has proofed to be such a developed human being as to become an architect or to transform the original structure.
Theosophical society was united when everyone thought it was one Truth. Why new teachings should be accepted as theosophical if they are not considered to be Truth for the whole of the society. I don´t mean they should be denied, if some people wants to believe they have the right to do, but why should become part of the structure when not every one agrees.
Maybe any new hypothesis should remain like hypothesis until is proved. How can it be proved? By experience.
Should not any new person claiming to be an architect able to amplify the structure, first proof that he has the experience to do it?
This may make nonsense anyway, I do not know if seeing all that is going on on TS at the moment, I would be able not to keep resented, most provably not I have to say I really see a great deal of ingratitude, pride and ego inflation on the whole thing, nothing different however of the problems that affect the whole humanity, myself included.
The one that wants to be in power will keep on the society to maintain it. The one who loves Truth will keep in the society to maintain it and so polarised the society may go on but anyway:
The Work was dedicated to all True Theosophist, of every country and of every race, for they called it forth and for them it was recorded.
And it was not in vane
Warmest Regards
Raquel
El mar, 7/10/08, Anton Rozman <anton_rozman@yahoo.com> escribió:
De: Anton Rozman <anton_rozman@yahoo.com>
Asunto: Re: Theos-World Power Structures & Theosophical Societies, Groups
Para: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Fecha: martes, 7 octubre, 2008 7:07
Hi Raquel and all,
Thank you very much for excellent common sense perspective. As to
your point in regard to different teachings I would suggest that we
examine what F. Pierce Spinks said in his book: Theosophists: Reunite!
In the chapter Comparison of basic teachings
http://www.teozofij a.info/Spinks_ Theosophists_ Reunite_02. htm#/
Comparison
after comparing some basic teachings F. Pierce Spinks concludes:
It is plain that the basic doctrines dealt with have found complete
acceptance on the part of the authoritative writers of all
Theosophical groups. The similarity between the ideas expressed by
each author quoted, and the words of H.P.B., are quite evident.
Then in Conclusions
http://www.teozofij a.info/Spinks_ Theosophists_ Reunite_04. htm#/
Conclusions
F. Pierce Spinks says:
? in their hearts all Theosophists really want to promote the best
interests of the Movement and ? our problems are due to honest, if
unwarranted, differences of opinion as to what is best for the
Movement. Of course, people have the right to differ, but this right
imposes on them the obligation to do so in a manner which is
constructive.
The Theosophical Society is a philosophical enterprise of such vast
importance that we cannot afford to dilute its energies by internal
weaknesses.
The Theosophical edifice must be soundly structured, with all its
parts in harmonious relationship. It is not up to the Masters to
restore our integrity. We must advance towards Them, towards the
position of strength and wisdom from which we retreated.
Despite seeming difficulties we call for an immediate return to the
integrity, dignity and strength of a reunited Movement, a Movement
which will truly and effectively serve those Great Men who gave it
birth and who are even now watching and hoping to see it cleansed of
its unsatisfactory features so that it may worthily represent them as
their organ on this earth for useful and practical work among men.
The seriousness of the times and the pitiful sufferings of our
fellowmen demand, as said, nobility of spirit from all of us. We must
not wait until it is too late.
Only a truly united Theosophical Movement can hope to take its place
in a world challenged as never before by dynamic forces. Love is the
missing link in inter-Theosophical relations.
You must take the initiative in seeking out and finding ways of
learning and sharing what you hold in mutual high esteem. New
experiments are needed in an effort to reconcile past differences. No
doors must be shut because of a belief background. Saturate
everything you do with the spirit of love and brotherhood. You, the
members of the Theosophical Society, will then speak with power and
authority because you will be daily demonstrating that which you
profess.
A new attack is to be made on ignorance and it will need all members
of the Theosophical family in ranks that are closed against
suspicions, doubts, yes, even hatreds of one another. The task ahead
demands the combined efforts of all of you pulling in one direction
under a unified command.
You have an obligation to the coming generation of Theosophists and
to those now unborn to bequeath to them a Movement soundly structured
in accord with the vision of the Founders, one free of resentments,
party lines, or any form of bitterness. It must be a Movement wholly
fit for use by us. The program that lies ahead is too important and
grand in scope to be circumscribed with limitations imposed by human
weaknesses and local loyalties.
If you embrace this program then the Theosophical Society will be
emblazoned on the pages of religious history as a tool of vast
importance in solving the troubled affairs of men; for it will then
be worthy of use by Messengers who will use its platform for
dispelling ignorance - Messengers who will be recognized because all
their works will breathe beneficence and peace.
We now await the day when you shall have accomplished the plan we
have just laid before you. We are eager to see it done so that we can
again come among you and help you. Then and only then can Isis be
further unveiled. Non-cooperation and disunity mean disintegration
and death. Unification and harmony mean growth and vital expansion
beyond your fondest dreams. Lift your hearts to the Light and seize
with strength and with joy this golden opportunity.
............ ...
Warmest regards,
Anton
--- In theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com, Raquel Rodríguez <raquel_rpj@ ...>
wrote:
>
> Dear Morten
>
> I found the letter nº 47, highly interesting, this gives a great
hope to True Theosophy to continue its true work, as I can see the
actual TS is really ill from its very inner structure.
> I give the link here if someone it is interested
> http://www.theosoci ety.org/pasadena /mahatma/ ml-47.htm
>
> I would like to give my humble opinion as an outside member of the
society, I migth be totally wrong, but if I can compare analogically
TS with Architecture I would say, they are so many problems within
the TS, that it would be difficult to find out how to begin to fixed
up
>
> I am a builder especialized in restoration of old historical
buildings.
>
> When a building is to be restored a diagnosis of its pathologies
must be done, from an especialized architect in order to proceed
efficiently. An especific order must be followed depending of the
diagnosis.
> a.- Foundations and main structure (obviously)
> b.- Roof and facades. The first will keep the structure together
and protected it, The second if not necessary yet, keeps the inner
repairs away from public. It means, that even when in the inside much
work has to be done, the general public does not have to be bothered
from the dust and noise and ugliness of the inner work and at the
same time, they can have already an idea of how beautiful the
building will be when it is finished.
> c.- Distribution of space, Inside divisions and finally decoration.
>
> Well, for what I have been reading on this forum, the main
and foundation problem of the TS,
> a.- Ledbeater and Beasant, or NeoTheosophy, How can a Society be
united if it is divided in to diametrical opposed teachings?. Or even
more, they are not diametrical opposed, HPB teaching would be the
foundation stone and Leadbeater the pathology. This has to be fixed,
but do not ask me how, I am not an architect. Seems complicated to me
anyhow, as I ignore many factors. But I can not really understand
that both teachings are coexisting until today, under the same roof
of the same society.
>
> b.- You mention new teachers are needed. I would compare this with
roofs and facades.
> I think they are already good teachers, maybe what is wrong is that
they are not recognized by the whole of the Society as such, and
that's the problem. General public would get confused and
contradictory information from different teachers.
>
> c.- Inside distribution. Actual politics and hierarchization. If
the first too are solved properly this should not be a great problem,
of course would be discussion about who would get by the biggest
window and not everyone would be completely happy, but with unity
every one should be happy to have a place to develop the work they
love. and democracy would ensure that every one would have the right
to, one day, be able to work by the nicest window.
> However if the first two are not solved it does not matter how many
discussions, cracks would come out of the walls constantly, does not
matter how much you paint and leaks out of the ceiling.
> What it is worst a great deal of energy, that could be conduced on
a more creative an so for useful way, would be wasted in covering up
what from the structure is wrong.
>
> But a pathology I can not really understand in TS, it is what Power
means for a Theosophist. Is the salary of the president very high or
the power is about to posses Truth? This is a very preoccupying
pathology.
>
> Raquel
>
> --- El dom, 5/10/08, Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ ...>
escribió:
>
> De: Morten Nymann Olesen <global-theosophy@ ...>
> Asunto: Re: Theos-World Power Structures & Theosophical Societies,
Groups
> Para: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> Fecha: domingo, 5 octubre, 2008 8:02
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear Daniel and all readers
>
> Yes.
> This link and most of its questions need to be answered:
> "...we have to preach and popularise a knowledge of theosophy."? ??
> http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/theos- talk/message/ 41824
>
> My views:
> New teachers are needed. And the teaching needs to be clearly
forwarded again, and again, so that there is no doubt about where the
various groups are going astray, when they are going astray. This
aught to be done taking time, place, people and circumstances into
account. And this is where the skilled teacher is needed, so we all
can help each other.
>
> Yet I claim: The Masters have other work going on that most
theosophist do not have an inkling of even today. (See - Mahatma
Letters - no 47 - A.T. Barker)
>
> - - - - - - -
> Earliere in 2004 I wrote the following at Theos-talk.. ..
> Theosophical thought, Experience and Teaching"There is a vast
accumulation of theosophical teachings, much of it inwritings, which
would-be students plough through, looking fortheosophy (Wisdom of the
Gods), and wondering why it seems,so often, self-contradictory. The
simple answer is that this materialis largely time-and-culture-
based. Most of it was prescribed forspecific audiences at certain
times and under particular conditions.Choosing the relevant materials
for any time is a specialised task.To try to make sense of all of it
would be like taking a bundle ofmedical prescriptions, issued over
the years to a variety of people,and working out one's own therapy
from such largely irrelevantpapers - and without a certain
specialised knowledge. TheosophicalTeachin g is PRESCRIBED.Such parts
of the theosophical Classics, stories, and lettersand lectures and so
on which apply to the individual and the grouptoday - have to be
selected and applied consciously
> and appropriately, by someone who is attuned to certain
realities."http://www.theosoph y.com/theos- talk/200407/ tt00327.html
> M. Sufilight
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: danielhcaldwell
> To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
> Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 4:38 AM
> Subject: Theos-World Power Structures & Theosophical Societies,
Groups
>
> All of the existing Theosophical groups, societies
> and associations (Adyar, Pasadena, ULT, Arcane School, etc.)
> have current "power structures" - any of which may impede or
obstruct
> in one way or another a better understanding of Theosophical
> teachings and history.
>
> Unfortunately, all of the various Theosophical Societies and
> groups have "mind-sets" which may "mislead" and "confuse"
> inquirers and new students to Theosophy.
>
> BELOW are some postings I have previously submitted to
> Theos-Talk which may help interested inquirers and students
> gain a greater understanding of the Theosophical Movement
> as well as any one Theosophical Society or group.
>
> Daniel
> http://hpb.cc
>
> Reference Sources on Theosophy Available thru Answers.com
> http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/theos- talk/message/ 41775
>
> Independent Students & the Theosophical Movement
> http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/theos- talk/message/ 39419
>
> Ancient Wisdom Revived: A History of the Theosophical Movement
> http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/theos- talk/message/ 40246
>
> The Theosophical Movement: Suggested Reading
> http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/theos- talk/message/ 41456
>
> Should an "ideal" Theosophical Society study & "promote" these
books?
> http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/theos- talk/message/ 40990
>
> "...we have to preach and popularise a knowledge of theosophy."? ??
> http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/theos- talk/message/ 41824
>
> One of Konstantin's Statements & Larger Issues
> http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/theos- talk/message/ 41848
>
> Don't confuse the Esoteric School with the Theosophical Society
> http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/theos- talk/message/ 40486
>
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