Theos-Talk Archives (October 2008 Message tt00255)

I would like to comment on a few points in the msg.


Carbonell is from Los Angeles, CA, and was the assistant to the Intl Secy as
such handling a lot of very sensitive information and people in such
positions should stay clear of any political issues, otherwise it is fatal
to them. So she was not in a position to influence election. Some one or a
group used her as a tool for their own ends. It is not unusual for
politicians to use someone else for their own objectives and TS members are
exception to it. It appears that she was recently sighted in Wheaton and no
one is talking. She is one person who knows all that went behind the scenes
and knows who the real players are and what they were doing during the
election.

Your point regarding the email traffic between the leaders is on target. I
have wrote about how there are two groups - one officials and the other
members like you and me. And with all the talk about modern communication,
Internet etc, they talk to each other within the group and not with members
either, As I pointed out several times, on this public list, in the last
decade, I have seen only two national leaders participating, which simply
tells the mindset of the leaders in general. No one seems to care except for
their own positions and power.

All the current troubles started when we received a personal form letter
from our leader in the USA telling the members of the poor health of Radha
and urging us to defeat her. When contradicting info was available, no
effort was made to keep the members informed of this. We expect
evenhandedness from theosophists. Also Joy took the trouble to write about
her views to the GC, but when the above contradicting info was not
distributed, where was she? She never said a word. She could have come out
and asked one of us to post a message here.

Lastly, the straw that broke the camels back is the secret proposal to take
away our direct voting rights, which fortunately for us, became known to the
world because of Internet. You do not make fundamental changes in any
membership democratic organization with out members participation and
support. The secret attempt simply shows the mindset. With this mindset, you
do not know what else is cooking behind the closed doors and how can anyone
trust the decisions of leaders.



So we have to be extra vigilant, lest by trickery or otherwise we are all
disenfranchised.



Mkr



On 10/12/08, Anton Rozman <anton_rozman@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>   Hi Pedro,
>
> I presume that you are replying to my message.
>
> I can agree that Elvira Carbonell's letter had some influence on the
> nomination and election process. But in analyzing "Election Campaign
> Letters" Govert and I agreed that it didn't represent the violation
> of TS Rules and Regulations.
>
> In my view any such letter (also in the case it would really
> represent the violation of TS Rules and Regulations) can not be a
> justified reason for further violation of TS Rules and Regulations
> but for the constitutional intervention of the Election and the
> Executive Committee.
>
> Further on, I presume that there was and still is present exchange of
> countless unrevealed e-mails between high TS officials on
> international and sections levels what gives an impression that
> within the Theosophical Society there is present well established
> parallel information and decision making system shared by two
> opposing fractions.
>
> The composition of the Executive Committee reveals that it is
> prevalently composed out of members of the administration. With its
> after elections statement the Executive Committee revealed, in my
> opinion, the role which transcends that designed by the TS Rules and
> Regulations. Please, read my comments of the Election process and
> John Algeo's and Joy Mills' letters to the Executive Committee.
>
> You have perfect right to think that my claims that the General
> Council and the Executive Committee are not performing their
> constitutional role are an insult and that my claims that the
> President letter represented the violation of the TS Rules and
> Regulations and that it gave way to further violations of the by-laws
> as baseless and unjust but, please, try to understand that I am
> trying to analyze the situation with some objective measures and that
> I am discovering that we can not reconcile current situation within
> the Society with the spirit of its Constitution and its first object
> of Brotherhood. I don't think that my views are absolutely
> unconditioned or the only possible one; on the contrary, I would be
> very happy to see as many as possible impersonal and un-biased
> analysies.
>
> Best regards,
> Anton
>
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>, "Pedro
> Oliveira" <prmoliveira@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>, "Anton
> Rozman" <anton_rozman@>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Let's be honest. Let' see the facts.
> >
> >
> > According to the Oxford English Dictionary, a fact is a "thing
> > certainly known to have occurred or be true, datum of experience."
> >
> >
> > > It is a fact that actual President was the first one who violated
> the
> > > TS Rules and Regulations in the past election process.
> >
> >
> > If you look at your own website
> > (http://teozofija.info/Teozofsko_gibanje/Elections_2008.htm) under
> the
> > heading "Election Campaign Letters", you will see that the first
> > letter which was sent out to General Council members was Elvira
> > Carbonell's letter of 19 December 2007. In her letter she says,
> among
> > other things:
> >
> > "Since there has been uncertainty about the state of our President's
> > health and our Vice-President's willingness and ability to accept
> > nominations for the upcoming Presidential election, several of us at
> > Adyar feel the need to write to members of the General Council to
> > share the following information.
> >
> > We have learned that our Vice-President has been asked if he will
> > accept nominations, and have confirmation from him that although he
> is
> > not eager to run for President, he will do what seems to be in the
> > best interest of the Society when the time comes, and he will accept
> > nominations..."
> >
> > This letter was sent by Carbonell by email while the International
> > Secretary sent out the nomination papers to GC members by ordinary
> air
> > mail correspondence on 18 December 2007. This means that when the
> > majority of GC members, who were not at Adyar at that time, received
> > their official nomination papers from the Secretary they had already
> > received Carbonell's letter.
> >
> > Her letter is a concrete, irrefutable evidence that John Algeo was
> in
> > contact with some key Adyar workers who were evidently helping him
> > with his campaign even BEFORE the actual elections took place.
> >
> > Neither the President nor a number of GC members who were at Adyar
> > received a copy of Carbonell's letter. Please note that Carbonell
> did
> > not act alone and that other workers at Adyar were also writing
> > letters to GC members, as the expression "several of us at Adyar" in
> > Carbonell's letter indicates.
> >
> > Therefore, John Algeo, the Vice-President of the TS, without the
> > knowledge of the President, who had nominated him three times for
> that
> > position, and liaising with some workers at Adyar, agreed to accept
> > nominations for the position of President BEFORE the majority of GC
> > members had even received their nomination papers. As a result of
> this
> > concerted plan of action, which used aspects of the President's
> health
> > as a form of political manipulation, John Algeo was clearly placed
> in
> > an advantageous position in the nomination process which included
> > General Council members in many countries.
> >
> >
> > It is a fact
> > > that the Executive Committee isn't composed and doesn't act
> according
> > > to the TS Rules and Regulations as a body of the General Council
> but
> > > as an extended arm of the President and her administration. It is
> a
> > > fact that the President and the Executive Committee completely
> ignore
> > > complaints of some members of the General Council.
> >
> >
> > According to the Rules of the Theosophical Society, the Executive
> > Committee is appointed annually by the General Council as per the
> Rule
> > below:
> >
> > 14. Appointment of Executive Committee
> >
> > (a) The General Council shall at each Annual Meeting appoint an
> > Executive Committee for the ensuing year or until its next Annual
> > Meeting, of not less than seven and not more than ten members, of
> whom
> > at least six shall be members of the General Council. The President,
> > the Vice-President, the Treasurer, and the Secretary shall be
> > ex-officio members. Vacancies caused by death or resignation or
> > otherwise may be filled by co-option.
> >
> > So when you say that the EC is "an extended arm of the President"
> you
> > are insulting the authority of the General Council of the
> Theosophical
> > Society for the composition of the EC is derived from an appointment
> > by the GC.
> >
> >
> > > On the other hand is a fact that in past elections general
> violation
> > > of the TS Rules and Regulations and an unethical behavior
> followed
> > > the action of the President.
> >
> > Anyone who reads Elvira Carbonell's letter of 19 December 2007 and
> > understands its context will be able to see that your above
> accusation
> > against the President of the Theosophical Society, which you have
> > repeated several times, is baseless, unwarranted and unjust.
> >
> >
> > Pedro
> >
>
> 
>


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