Re: Theos-World Re: Dynasty subverting Democracy (through FEAR)
Jul 17, 2008 05:05 PM
Absolutely correct. Although the fact is mentioned in passing during a new member's orientation, it is said that one must be a member for 2 years before they can join the Esoteric Section. Hardly anyone remembers that, and when they are new members, do not even know enough about the Society to catch the passing reference. So it is no wonder that the ES is such a inbred organization.
From: kpauljohnson <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Sent: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 6:58 pm
Subject: Theos-World Re: Dynasty subverting Democracy (through FEAR)
--- In email@example.com, MarieMAJ41@... wrote:
> Regarding the ES , I think that it was originally started in part
to do work of the 3rd Object of the Society. That object has been
downplayed, and now only ES members are working on that. The outer
members don't even ask about the 3rd object, so well has that?been
ghosted and obfuscated.
I would guess that many "outer" members have their own private ways
of working on the third object, but have given up on the TS being of
any assistance in that regard. Just looked up definitions of
corruption and conflict of interest to get a better handle, and the
bottom line of corruption is use of a public position for private
gain. The TS is a public body, the ES is a private one consisting of
about 2@ of the membership of the TS the last I heard. As Anton notes:
> There's a problem with ES. ES is considered a closed order, where
the members take some vows which they don't disclose to the outer
world. Let's suppose that among them there is a vow of loyality to
the head of organization.If the president of TS is a ES member, the
ES head can order him something and the president shall act not
according to the interests of the members which democraticly elected
him, but to the orders of the ES head.
PJ: Precisely. Of course ES members will just flatly deny that such
a conflict could ever occur, because they are "working for the good
of the TS." But-- the good of the TS according to a private secret
definition that just happens to think *whatever* the ES does is good
for the TS! Because they form a spiritual link to the Masters, I
> This problem was "elegantly" solved in TS by combination of
president and ES head offices. It makes the president free of any
outer control, as he is a head of both organizations.
PJ: Olcott never took any such vow to obey the ES OH, but the offices
have been problematically combined more often than not since Besant
> Two other possibilities: (1) dissolve ES or (2) make provision in
the Rules that TS higher officers cannot be members of ES, are more
hard to put into practice, for (1) ES can continue to run secretly in
spite of its dissolution; and (2) the candidate can hide the fact of
his membership in ES, which ES won't disclose.
PJ: One further consideration. I listened to an interview of Radha
online and she strongly insisted that the TS had no dogma, no
requirements other than acceptance of the objects. Of course no
mention was made that all real power is held by ES members who very
definitely have a belief system and set of practices the rest of us
are not privy to. As well as a spiritual leader who is to be obeyed.
So it isn't just the private/public conflict that is a problem, but
also the religion/not religion conflict. Which to my mind means that
the ES is fundamentally and inherently in conflict with what the TS
proclaims itself to be. A public group that explicitly repudiates
being an exclusive religion is secretly dominated by a private group
that practices and promotes an exclusive religion. This will always
be a source of trouble until some corrective action takes place.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Back to Top]
Dedicated to the Theosophical Philosophy and its Practical Application