Theos-Talk Archives (July 2008 Message tt00150)

Dear Martin
Thank you  for your response. 
I apologize if I have offended you in some way.  Rather then giving additional insight into the controversy  I must ask you are you simply perpetuated it with your remarks.? Are you inadvertently  reveling certain expectations from the Theosophical teachings or organization that should be found more directly within yourself?? . I f you read Williams  comments with some impersonality you may eventually  see there is much wisdom in his remarks. My comments on Williams post was done simply in an attempt to encourage what I see as some of the older and more mature students of Theosophy to get more involved and share their understanding.  I did not mean to infer there are not many other participating Theosophist that post here that have much to contribute.
To me all organizations are bridging and intermediary until one finds the truth within themselves. I have been affiliated with the Theosophical society most of my adult life and see its usefulness but I try not to be overly attached to its form. I no doubt  have much progress to make and many lifetimes to go. I am reminded of something the famous naturalist  and transcendentalist H.D Thoreau said and this may not be exactly verbatim:
     Wherever there is a lack of Love an institution will spring up.
Blessings to you and the Theosophical society
Duane Carpenter



----- Original Message ----
From: Martin <Mvandertak@yahoo.com>
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 3:31:14 AM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Krishnamurti according to William


Duane, why not share your many lifetimes of experience also?
Then when we compare them we may not need Krishnamurti as well!
I did with my lifetime :-)
 

--- On Sun, 7/13/08, Duane Carpenter <monad_monad_ monad@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Duane Carpenter <monad_monad_ monad@yahoo. com>
Subject: Theos-World Krishnamurti according to William
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
Date: Sunday, July 13, 2008, 10:35 PM

Dear William
Thank you for your clarity on Krishnamurti.
This is the first time I have heard some real Wisdom on the subject.
Please speak more often  we need your many lifetimes of insight and experience.
Sincerely Duane Carpenter

----- Original Message ----
From: t_s_theosophist <THEOSOPHIST@ webtv.net>
To: theos-talk@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 8:50:33 PM
Subject: Theos-World Understanding Krishnamurti

UNDERSTANDING KRISHNAMURTI 

The problem with understanding Krishnamurti is Not Krishnamurti, but the tendency of our minds to form pre-conceptions and expectations. 

When C.W. Leadbeater discovered young Krishnaji and his brother on the beach at Adyar he unmistakebly knew that there was something very special about this child. 

In consultation with Dr.Besant they are said to have received special information from the Masters of Wisdom about Krishnamurtis' future. 

Krishnamurti was to be the vehicle of expression for the next appearance of The World Teacher. Although Great and Respected Leaders, Leadbeater and Besant were products of their time, and I think that we can forgive them if Krishnamurtis' role was slightly different from what they had expected. 

Krishnamurti surprised many people who had "other" preconceived notions of "What" the World Teacher should be and do. 

Krishnamurti did Not denounce Theosophy or distance himself from it. To the very last day he always considered Annie Besant as "Amma", a term of endearment meaning "mother." 

What Krishnamurti Did do was to denounce the reliance on any oganization, or outside persona 
no matter who that person was or claimed to be. He taught that you do not need organizations, you do not need Gurus, you do not need Priests or intermediaries. Look to Ishvar Guru, the Atman within, this is the Only Guru you need. 

The complete essence of Krishnamurtis teaching is...... 

"YOU ARE THE WORLD, LOOK IN THE MIRROR, LOOK WITHIN." 

It is message of uncompromising Self-Reliance, Self-Responsibility and Self-Effort. . 

It is a hard message for an immature humanity that does not want to take Self-Responsibility for their actions and lives but craves for an outside "Savior." In past ages when the bulk of humanity was still immature we did need "Saviors." The evolution of consciousness has come to a point where external "Saviors" are no longer needed, they are now a hindrance. 

It is now possible for many of us to take Self-Responsibility , Self-Reliance and Self-Effort for our own Spiritual growth and evolution to Perfection. 

Yet, out of Compassion and Charity for the young souls still among us we are not to be iconoclastic and denounce all religion and ceremonies as useless trivia. Although we may have come to a point in our evolution where we do Not need religion and ceremonies ourselves, as we have seen that they are "crutches" we no longer really need, there Are many many young souls and immature beings who still Do need those crutches. There is absolutely Nothing wrong with using a crutch If we need one. The problem comes in when we make a fetish out of the crutch and don't see it for what it is, we make an idol out of the crutch. 
Keeping an "Open Mind" is always a problem for us, as we have a tendency to form pre-conceptions that give us a false sense of comfort and security. When things work out as things work out, and they don't comform to our expctations. ..we are dis-illusioned and feel betrayed. In reality we should be happy that we have been "dis-illusioned" in confronting Reality. 

That was the major problem with Krishnamurti, Not that he was Not the expression of The World Teacher, but that he did not conform to peoples pre-conceived expectations. 

We can see this same dynamic at work in another occurance. H.P.B. wrote that in the last quarter of each century a major Spiritual impetus would occur. People started imagining what this "Spiritual" occurance would be and had many different expectations. Many were disappointed when they did not see anything 
notable "Spiritual" occur at all. 

The fact that the advent of a musical group, The Beatles, spearheaded a major change in world consciousness does not occur to them as a "major spiritual impetus." One need only to look at pre- and post- Beatle world consciousness to see the difference. 

The Emergent Reality will always be as it will be, and it will be wholesome and good. It most likely will never conform to our pre-conceptions and expectations. So if we are prudent we will work on keeping a truly Open Mind, Avoiding Pre-conceptions and leaving an Open Space for the Emergent Reality to occur with out our own distortions. 

Krishnamurti, by refusing to accept any role as a "Spiritual Leader," Guru, or intermediary, and by denouncing the reliance on any organization was acting in congruence with his message, and by doing so proved his role as the expression of The World Teacher. His actions were completely consistent with his teaching. 

Looking objectively, all I can say is WOW, This guy IS REAL. 

William Delahunt
Orlando Florida, 
Theosophist@ webtv.net

http://www.tso- orlando.org

============ ========= = 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]