Theos-Talk Archives (May 2008 Message tt00799)

Dear Ramadoss,

Thanks for your answer.

As stated before, neither do I have anything against anyone 'factoring in'
another's historical situatedness and relatedness to the TS.

Meanwhile, interestingly, you state:

"I hope the readers do not question the messenger. It would be helpful if we
keep our eye on the messages and make up our own minds."

Now, what will it be?

1) Factoring in the background of all messengers?

2) Factoring in the background only of the messengers that have something of
a vested, compromising interest in the TS?

3) Refraining from factoring in the background of all messengers?

4) Any of the above, but with a special exception for you? 8^)

Anyway, I do second you in your call for more transparency, open
communication, and a Marshall plan to technologically upgrade the entire TS,
especailly Adyar, to make the above possible, and I would add the proposal
to put the entire governance model of the TS into question and to find an
organizational-scientific way to re-energize the base of the TS with a new
inspiring vision and mission about what the TS can do for the world. In
short, a structural shake-up that will open up the possibility for the TS
and its members to be beacons of light for the rest of humanity by
re-positioning itself boldly, imaginativley and intelligently in any
department of life that will defy any classification and refute all
prejudices. We're not Theosophists, if we're not radical, and we can't wait
till we're perfect.

Govert






----- Original Message ----- 
From: <mkr777@gmail.com>
To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2008 11:20 PM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Independent Inquiry into the TS Election


Dear Govert:

I have nothing against anyone's stand or interpretation on any topic.

The statement I made is a fact when you deal with any organization, and is
inherent in them. Hence there are limits to independence when one deals with
any relationship with an organization. So long as people are aware of it,
they can factor it when considering any information or opinion that comes
from people who have to deal with the organization.

mkr

THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN TRUTH

For quick access to all the important messages on TS International Election,
go to:

http://teozofija.info/Teozofsko_gibanje/Elections_2008.htm





On 5/25/08, Govert Schuller <schuller@alpheus.org> wrote:
>
> Dear Marie and Ramadoss,
>
> On the point of 'situating' anybody in his/her historical circumstances in
> order to get a better sense of that person's position, I do wholeheartedly
> agree. And including in those circumstances I would not zoom too narrowly
> at
> the present, but include significant milestones, affiliations, relations,
> events, statements, publications, etc. in the past, involvement in present
> projects, and statements, if available, about future intentions.
>
> But then to jump to the conclusion that my specific position is
> compromised,
> in the morally pejorative sense, because of my historical situatedness
with
> the TS is a bit of a stretch, if not offensive.
>
> Everybody com-promises one way or the other, meaning, our being-together
on
> this earth includes mutual promises and expectations regarding the future
> and forgiveness and letting things slide regarding the past. The structure
> of one's living present is then held between these two attitudes towards
> the
> past and the future. And it's the qualities of honesty, politeness,
> integrity, understanding, etc with which we com-promising-ly relate to the
> past and the future that will com-promise the quality of one's present and
> presence to others.
>
> So, in the case of these elections I look at the Krishnamurti issue and
how
> the candidates have positioned themselves in that regard; I reflect on my
> exchanges with the candidates; and, most importantly, I try to perceive
the
> whole situation from an esoteric psycho-historical point of view including
> futural implications. It's from that stand I try to develop my positions,
> proposals, com-promises, communications, choices, relations, etc. Of
> course,
> ego kicks in here and there, which will indeed undermine the intergrity of
> my position, but that's betweem me and myself, unless I become such a
> blatant ego-maniac that the community can call me upon it.
>
> In the case of my relationship to the TSA (I live around the corner) I do
> intend to get more involved and will next month volunteer at Far Horizons
> for a couple of months, go low-tech (you won't hear from me for a while)
> and
> just enjoy nature and new friends. Of course I will try to convert TS
> people
> to my position, extract advantageous quid pro quos for my service and
> scarifice, and further bore myself into the organization as a
Prophet-mole.
> I promise.
>
> And if, in the proces, that gains me another chance to talk to 25 people
> for
> 80 minutes at the TSA, or conduct another class (for 'full' disclosure I
> did
> 2: one on Krishnamurti and one on the philosophical school of
> phenomenology,
> and a third is in the make) well, swell, if not, too bad.
>
> So, what are your positions from which you com-promise?
>
> Govert
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "MKR" <mkr777@gmail.com <mkr777%40gmail.com>>
> To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>>
> Sent: Friday, May 23, 2008 7:19 PM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Independent Inquiry into the TS Election
>
> Marie:
>
> You have brought out an important point.
>
> With all organizations, one better tow official line and not go against
the
> leaders, if you expect anything from the organization or its leaders. It
> could be your job, opportunity to use their platform to speak or lecture,
> etc. Once you are seen as opposing the organization or towing their
> official
> policy, or disagree with its leaders, you lose these. So one's real
> independence is compromised. That is fact of life. So when we see messages
> here, if there is any association issue, I read them with a grain of salt.
>
> mkr
>
> On 5/23/08, MarieMAJ41@aol.com <MarieMAJ41%40aol.com>
<MarieMAJ41@aol.com<MarieMAJ41%40aol.com>>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Also, dear Govert, please disclose the fact that you have lectured at
the
> > TS in Wheaton, and probably will again in the future, that is, if you
> vote
> > correctly. Because how you voted will be known by those in power.
> >
> > Marie
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Govert Schuller <schuller@alpheus.org
<schuller%40alpheus.org><schuller%
> 40alpheus.org>>
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
<theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com><theos-talk%
> 40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Fri, 23 May 2008 11:17 pm
> > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Independent Inquiry into the TS Election
> >
> > Dear Jokela,
> >
> > You'll find my analysis of the letters at:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/44374
> >
> > I tired to be as objective as possible, though, for full disclosure, I
am
> > supporting John's candidacy (and do so uncoordinated with anybody else)
> >
> > Govert
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <jokelap@dnainternet.net <jokelap%40dnainternet.net> <jokelap%
> 40dnainternet.net>>
> > To: <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
<theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com><theos-talk%
> 40yahoogroups.com>>
> > Sent: Friday, May 23, 2008 4:47 AM
> > Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Independent Inquiry into the TS Election
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > I am not so updated about all the letters and dates. So I
> > > may
> > > be totally wrong. Sorry for that.
> > >
> > > No matter who started, Radha continued campaining.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, 23 May 2008 07:01:14 -0000
> > > "prmoliveira" <prmoliveira@yahoo.com
<prmoliveira%40yahoo.com><prmoliveira%
> 40yahoo.com>> wrote:
> > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
<theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com><theos-talk%
> 40yahoogroups.com>,
> > jokelap@... wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> Campaining started just when Radha sent her letter out
> > > >>no
> > > >> matter if
> > > >> by airmail. Some of the members of the GC got it at
> > > >>Adyar
> > > >> before the
> > > >> Ms. Carbonelle´s email was sent out. Maybe Carbonelle´s
> > > >> letter was
> > > >> reaction againts Radha´s campaining letter. So please
> > > >> dont´t twist the
> > > >> truth here!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The truth of facts cannot be twisted:
> > > >
> > > > Radha Burnier's letter to General Council members was
> > > >dated 12 March
> > > > 2008 and was sent by air mail.
> > > >
> > > > Elvira Carbonell's letter to General Council members was
> > > >sent by
> > > > email on 19 December 2007.
> > > >
> > > > I am sure that you will be able to explain how a letter
> > > >written on 12
> > > > March 2008 can be obtained by General Council members
> > > >who were at
> > > > Adyar in December 2007. Maybe it could be a case of
> > > >'retroactive
> > > > precipitation'.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Pedro
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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