Theos-Talk Archives (May 2008 Message tt00770)

Well, interesting Martin...

My idea was that J. Krishnamurti have been one of the main promoters of debasing the doctrine of Master-Chelaship, and that the Radha camp and friends have for decades not really clairified why this is a useful doctrine, when The "Book of Discipline" in the schools of "Dzyan." tell us all the opposite.

It is not healthy to promote as a theosophical view that Master-Chelaship is a crutch as J. Krishanmurti did. 
There are limits to what Master will accept. The proper view is that it - can - be a crutch, and NOT that it at all times - is - a crutch.


- - - - - - - -


Saying that it is wise to promote J. Krishnamurti a socalled Messiah showing no signs and fruits what so ever of being a Messiah and World Teacher - more than or as just as valid as - Krishna, Buddha, Joshua ben Pandira, or Khidr is way out of line - and not in accordance with theosophical teaching. Authors like H. P. Blavatsky, Idries Shah, Vivekananda, Ramana Maharishi, Amma, Mahatma Ghandi and similar could just as well be called World Teachers because of their acitivities and fruits.

The theosophical cause is not in need of a J. Krishnamurti cult, who devalues the Masters and Master-Chelaship.
The the present day medias and intellectual academic authors will only promote the view, that TS Adyar is Messiah Cult with a low level Messiah, when compared with Jesus Christ. We cannot have a continuátion this.

Sometimes theosophical groups are hit by lack of sincerity. Sometimes it is lack of sincerity of the doctrine and cause we call Master-Chelaship.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/15301

- - - - - - - -
Master KH wrote in a Mahatma Letter:
For the opposition represents enormous vested interests, and they have enthusiastic help from the Dugpas -- in Bhootan and the Vatican!
(Here is all of Mahtama Letter, No. 55. Dugpas are the same as selfish Magicians.) 



H. P. Blavatsky said:
"The Society founded to remedy the glaring evils of Christianity, to shun bigotry and intolerance, cant and superstition and to cultivate real universal love extending even to the dumb brute".
(The Collected Writings of H. P. Blavatsky, vol. 7, p.246) 


 



M. Sufilight


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Martin 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 5:50 AM
  Subject: Re: Theos-World A pledge to HPB or Kirshnamurti?


  Ineteresting topic...!

  I was raised by 2 Dugpa's and later changed their
  lifes forever.
  I cured my mothers illnesses by birth ( she told me I
  drank poison from her breasts the first 3 day's of my
  life).
  I showed my father the way to happiness by marrying
  another woman, after 32 years of marriage.

  I was raised Spartanic, had 6 brothers and 2 sisters.
  I honour them in despite of all the wrongdoing's I
  went through and love them deeply as if I had Mary and
  Josef as parents.

  A final note:
  They are both still alive (78 and 82 years of age),
  and I am planning to reunite the family with the help
  of my brothers and sisters, since I actually only
  have good (theosophical) contact with my 6 year older
  brother who was my dealiest enemy).
  My socalled stepfather is 91 y.o.a. now and is still
  driving his electric bike!!!
  If I can manage with my families help to reunite
  again, the spell of our fanily Dugpa will be broken.
  The next step will be my country ( I live in the
  Netherlands).
  My 2cnts.

  A first step has been my eldest brother ( I am the
  middle one of 13 births (with 3 dead babies).

  --- Morten Nymann Olesen
  <global-theosophy@stofanet.dk> wrote:

  > To all readers
  > 
  > My views are:
  > 
  > 
  > *** HE WHO WIPETH NOT AWAY THE FILTH WITH WHICH THE
  > PARENT'S BODY MAY HAVE BEEN DEFILED BY AN ENEMY,
  > NEITHER LOVES THE PARENT NOR HONOURS HIMSELF. ***
  > 
  > I can only recommend, that all members of TS Adyar
  > to read the following carefully so to understand
  > chelaship - and leadership. And when they are able
  > to relate this to J. Krishnamurti's teachings in a
  > manner, which is not in opposition to his own
  > teachings, I will be happy to learn and know about
  > this. Until then I must regard J. Krishnamurti's
  > teachings as an obstacle to the theosophical cause
  > and therefore possibly also the TS cause.
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > >>> H. P. Blavatsky said the folllowing <<<
  > "In 1890, in England, a second Preliminary
  > Memorandum* was published, this being extracts from
  > H.P.B.'s "Preliminary Explanations to No. III of the
  > Instructions," plus the penultimate paragraph of
  > that Instruction. The Aryan Press in New York also
  > published this second Preliminary Memorandum in an
  > eight-page pamphlet. Its text is as follows:
  > Strictly private and confidential.
  > 
  > ESOTERIC SECTION
  > 
  > PRELIMINARY MEMORANDUM
  > 
  > "If thou canst not fulfil thy pledge, refuse to take
  > it, but once thou hast bound thyself to any promise,
  > carry it out, even if thou hast to die for it."
  > 
  > Membership in the E. S., and "pledges" sent,
  > accepted and signed, are no warrants for a high
  > success, nor do these pledges aim at making of every
  > student an adept or a magician. They are simply the
  > seeds in which lurks the potentiality of every
  > truth, the germ of that progress which will be the
  > heirloom of only the seventh perfect Race. A handful
  > of such seeds was entrusted to me by the keepers of
  > these truths, and it is my duty to sow them there,
  > where I perceive a possibility of growth. It is the
  > parable of the Sower put once more into practice,
  > and a fresh lesson to be derived from its new
  > application. The seeds that fall into good ground
  > will bring forth fruit an hundredfold, and thus
  > repay in each case the waste of those seeds which
  > will have fallen by the wayside, on stony hearts and
  > among the thorns of human passions. It is the duty
  > of the Sower to choose the best soil for the future
  > crops. But he is held responsible only so far as
  > that ability is directly
  > 
  > ----------
  > * This second Preliminary Memorandum was included in
  > a further edition of the Book of Rules issued in
  > late 1891 by Annie Besant and William Q. Judge as
  > joint Heads of the E.S.
  > ----------
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > Page 502
  > 
  > 
  > connected with the failures, and that such are
  > solely due to it; it is the Karma of the individuals
  > who receive the seeds by asking for them, that will
  > repay or punish those who fail in their duties to
  > their HIGHER SELF.
  > 
  > (From the "Book of Discipline" in the schools of
  > "Dzyan.")
  > 
  > "1. TO THE EARNEST DISCIPLE HIS TEACHER TAKES THE
  > PLACE OF FATHER AND MOTHER. FOR, WHEREAS THEY GAVE
  > HIM HIS BODY AND ITS FACULTIES, ITS LIFE AND CASUAL
  > FORM, THE TEACHER SHOWS HIM HOW TO DEVELOP THE INNER
  > FACULTIES FOR THE ACQUISITION OF THE ETERNAL WISDOM.
  > "2. TO THE DISCIPLE EACH FELLOW-DISCIPLE BECOMES A
  > BROTHER AND SISTER, A PORTION OF HIMSELF,* FOR HIS
  > INTERESTS AND ASPIRATIONS ARE THEIRS, HIS WELFARE
  > INTERWOVEN WITH THEIRS, HIS PROGRESS HELPED OR
  > HINDERED BY THEIR INTELLIGENCE, MORALITY, AND
  > BEHAVIOR THROUGH THE INTIMACY BROUGHT ABOUT BY THEIR
  > CO-DISCIPLESHIP.
  > "3. A CO-DISCIPLE OR ASSOCIATE CANNOT BACKSLIDE OR
  > FALL OUT OF THE LINE WITHOUT AFFECTING THOSE WHO
  > STAND FIRM THROUGH THE SYMPATHETIC TIE BETWEEN
  > THEMSELVES AND THE PSYCHICAL CURRENTS BETWEEN THEM
  > AND THEIR TEACHER.
  > "4. WOE TO THE DESERTER, WOE ALSO TO ALL WHO HELP TO
  > BRING HIS SOUL TO THE POINT WHERE DESERTION FIRST
  > PRESENTS ITSELF BEFORE HIS MIND'S EYE, AS THE LESSER
  > OF TWO EVILS. GOLD IN THE CRUCIBLE IS HE WHO STANDS
  > THE MELTING HEAT OF TRIAL, AND LETS ONLY THE DROSS
  > BE BURNT OUT OF HIS HEART; ACCURSED BY KARMIC ACTION
  > WILL FIND HIMSELF HE WHO THROWS DROSS INTO THE
  > MELTING-POT OF DISCIPLESHIP FOR THE DEBASEMENT OF
  > HIS FELLOW-PUPIL. AS THE MEMBERS TO THE BODY, SO ARE
  > THE DISCIPLES TO EACH OTHER, AND TO THE HEAD AND
  > HEART WHICH TEACH AND NOURISH THEM WITH THE LIFE-
  > STREAM OF TRUTH.
  > "5. AS THE LIMBS DEFEND THE HEAD AND HEART OF THE
  > BODY THEY BELONG TO, SO HAVE THE DISCIPLES TO DEFEND
  > THE HEAD AND THE HEART OF THE BODY THEY BELONG TO
  > (in this case Theosophy) FROM INJURY.
  > 
  > (From the Letter of a Master.)
  > 
  > . . . . AND IF THE LIMBS HAVE TO DEFEND THE HEAD AND
  > HEART OF 
  > THEIR BODY, THEN WHY NOT SO, ALSO, THE DISCIPLES
  > THEIR TEACHERS AS REPRESENTING THE SCIENCE OF
  > THEOSOPHY WHICH CONTAINS AND
  > ----------
  > * "So shalt thou be in full accord with all that
  > lives; bear love to men as though they were thy
  > brother-pupils, disciples of one Teacher, the sons
  > of one sweet mother." (Vide Fragment III, in Voice
  > of the Silence, p. 49.)
  > ----------
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > Page 503
  > 
  > 
  > INCLUDES THE 'HEAD' OF THEIR PRIVILEGE, THE 'HEART'
  > OF THEIR SPIRITUAL GROWTH? SAITH THE SCRIPTURE:-
  > "HE WHO WIPETH NOT AWAY THE FILTH WITH WHICH THE
  > PARENT'S BODY MAY HAVE BEEN DEFILED BY AN ENEMY,
  > NEITHER LOVES THE PARENT NOR HONOURS HIMSELF. HE WHO
  > DEFENDETH NOT THE PERSECUTED AND THE HELPLESS, WHO
  > GIVETH NOT OF HIS FOOD TO THE STARVING NOR DRAWETH
  > WATER FROM HIS WELL FOR THE THIRSTY, HATH BEEN BORN
  > TOO SOON IN HUMAN SHAPE.
  > "BEHOLD THE TRUTH BEFORE YOU: A CLEAN LIFE, AN OPEN
  > MIND, A PURE HEART, AN EAGER INTELLECT, AN UNVEILED
  > SPIRITUAL PERCEPTION, A BROTHERLINESS FOR ONE'S
  > CO-DISCIPLE, A READINESS TO GIVE AND RECEIVE ADVICE
  > AND INSTRUCTION, A LOYAL SENSE OF DUTY TO THE
  > TEACHER, A WILLING OBEDIENCE TO THE BEHESTS OF
  > TRUTH, ONCE WE HAVE PLACED OUR CONFIDENCE IN, AND
  > BELIEVE THAT TEACHER TO BE IN POSSESSION OF IT; A
  > COURAGEOUS ENDURANCE OF PERSONAL INJUSTICE, A BRAVE
  > DECLARATION OF PRINCIPLES, A VALIANT DEFENCE OF
  > THOSE WHO ARE UNJUSTLY ATTACKED, AND A CONSTANT EYE
  > TO THE IDEAL OF HUMAN PROGRESSION AND PERFECTION
  > WHICH THE SECRET SCIENCE (Gupta-Vidyâ)
  > DEPICTS--THESE ARE THE GOLDEN STAIRS UP THE STEPS OF
  > WHICH THE LEARNER MAY CLIMB TO THE TEMPLE OF DIVINE
  > WISDOM."
  > 
  > (From No. III of the Instructions.)
  > 
  > Good and evil are relative, and are intensified or
  > lessened according to the conditions by which man is
  > surrounded. One who belongs to that which we call
  > the "useless portion of mankind," i.e., the lay
  > majority, is in many cases irresponsible. Crimes
  > committed in Avidyâ (ignorance) involve physical but
  > not moral responsibilities or Karma. Take, for
  > example, the case of idiots, children, savages, and
  > other people who know no better. But the case of
  > each of you, pledged to the HIGHER SELF, is quite
  > another matter. You cannot invoke this divine
  > Witness with impunity, and once that you have put
  > yourselves under its tutelage, you have asked the
  > Radiant Light to shine into and search through all
  > the dark corners of your being; consciously you have
  > invoked the divine justice of Karma to take note of
  > your motives, to scrutinize your actions, and to
  > enter up all in your account. The step is as
  > irrevocable as that of the infant taking birth.
  > Never again can you force yourself back into the
  > Matrix of Avidyâ and irresponsibility. Resignation
  > and return of your pledges will not help you. Though
  > you flee to the uttermost parts of the earth, and
  > hide yourselves from the sight of men, or seek
  > oblivion in the tumult of the social whirl, that
  > Light will find you out and lighten your every
  > thought, word, and deed. Are any of you so foolish
  > as to suppose that it is to poor, miserable H.P.B.
  > you
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > Page 504
  > 
  > 
  > are giving your pledge? All she can do is to send to
  > each earnest one among you a most sincerely
  > fraternal 
  === message truncated ===



   

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