Theos-Talk Archives (May 2008 Message tt00615)

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "kpauljohnson" <kpauljohnson@...>
wrote:
>
> Dear Anand,
> 
> If I could rewrite the rules, there would be a one-term limit on the 
> presidency.  Seven years is plenty of time to leave one's mark and 
> step aside to let another member take the job.

America has a term of four years, England and India also have a term
of I think less than five years. So seven year term is too long in my
opinion. Shorter term of four years is better because if elected
person does not perform well, people get chance to  remove him from
power after four years. In TS such chance people get only after seven
years. As PTS is also head of ES and Co-masonry, and as many of the
officers are members of these two organizations also, they generally
don't show disagreement even if they don't agree with PTS. They fear
about their prospects in ES and Co-masonry. 
Also I think male members don't express their opinions freely when the
leader is a female. This factor may not be working always, but it does
work many times. There remains distance between majority male members
and their female leader. Distance is more in a conservative country
like India. Due to lack of free discussion, decision making does not
happen properly. 

> 
> I assumed that Krishnamurti was very popular with Indian Theosophists 
> and Radha's success in growth of the Indian membership might have to 
> do with her association with him.  

It is exactly opposite. In India, TS members are not interested much
in Krishnamurti's speeches. They respect K because CWL and AB talked
high about him. And they read his book At the Feet of the Master. But
members are not fond of his teaching given later, most don't read.
Radha has been trying to push K's teaching in TS and she encouraged
some lecturers to speak on K's teaching. But most people are not
interested. In the last meeting when I raised objections about K's
teaching, after the meeting many people told me that I was right and
K's teaching had many problems. Situation in India is Radha tries to
promote K's teaching, but members don't like it much, nor do they
understand what he wants to say. Radha is losing her popularity
because she is promoting K's teaching which members don't like.

>How rare or common among your 
> fellow Indian FTS is your critical attitude toward K and his 
> influence on the TS?
> 
> Paul

In India members are not critical. I  think Indians don't criticize
any philosophy much. Rajneesh was very controversial abroad, he has HQ
here in Pune. But people don't criticize him also. Indians don't
criticize any philosophy. They don't criticize K also, even if they
don't understand what he says and even if they don't agree with him.
Man has to be brave if he is to criticize famous person like
Krishnamurti, and who is supported by PTS. Most members don't have
such courage. 

TS succeeds in India because members in India don't identify Theosophy
with Blavatsky's writing. I think most members in India don't read
Blavatsky's writing. They read writings of other Theosophical authors.
In America and many countries Theosophical movement failed because
Theosophy was identified with Blavatsky's writings. And Blavatsky's
writing does not have capacity to attract and convince people.
Actually, if she attracts few people to Theosophy, she makes some
enemies  also along with them.
Amen.
Anand Gholap

> 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Anand" <AnandGholap@> wrote:
> >
> > Theosophical Society does not have functioning democracy. It is 
> indeed
> > surprising why only John and Radha are in race. I know the reasons 
> and
> > the reason is TS is not democratic. In America's elections in entire
> > history perhaps nobody above the age of 75 got elected as President 
> of
> > America. There may or may not be exception. How is it that only two
> > candidates are there in the race and both of them are above 75 ? 
> Whole
> > structure of ES, TS and Co-masonry is such that it makes TS
> > non-democratic. Also one can see that in TS when once person gets
> > elected, he/she remains President till  death. These things show 
> that
> > TS is not democratic.
> > 
> > Anand Gholap 
> > 
> >  
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, MKR <mkr777@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Few speak their mind, and you are one  of them.
> > > 
> > > mkr
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On 5/14/08, MarieMAJ41@ <MarieMAJ41@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >   Because, dear PJ, they did not want to. John controls many of 
> the
> > > > General Secretaries already because he is more unscrupulous than
> > > > Radha....IMO. Perhaps she is more able to communicate with the
> > culture that
> > > > is India, and John is more able to communicate with the rest. As
> > for ethics,
> > > > in my opinion, John Algeo's ethics serves only himself.
> > > >
> > > > Marie
> > > >
> > > > And another question: if John Algeo is indeed the kind of 
> person I
> > > > have experienced him to be, and many other once-bitten twice-shy
> > > > members or former members have reported, then why could the TS 
> not
> > > > come up with a single other nominee to succeed Radha?
> > > >
> > > > PJ
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: kpauljohnson <kpauljohnson@ <kpauljohnson%40yahoo.com>>
> > > > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > Sent: Wed, 14 May 2008 9:23 am
> > > > Subject: Theos-World Re: TS Membership Trend
> > > >
> > > > Dear Doss,
> > > >
> > > > I find it hard to contribute anything constructive to this
> > > > discussion, and neither theos-l nor theos-talk seem inclined to
> > > > discuss anything but the upcoming election. So it was probably 
> a bad
> > > > time to resubscribe, and I'll soon take another long hiatus 
> until
> > > > this is over. But before taking leave, there are some questions 
> I
> > > > have for anyone who might care to ask, which might be no one. 
> These
> > > > are elephants in the room that it seems useful for both sides to
> > > > ignore.
> > > >
> > > > > the rest of the world had 24,448. Today, according to the 2007
> > > > Annual
> > > > > Report of the TS, the Indian Section has 12,444 members and 
> the rest
> > > > > of the world 16,570."
> > > > >
> > > > > This shows that in India, the membership has increased by 59%.
> > > > > In rest of the world, it has declined by 32%.
> > > > >
> > > > Question: how much of that shrinkage is due to national sections
> > > > losing membership, and how much of it is due to Radha's (high-
> handed,
> > > > arrogant, secretive, unaccountable, IMO) treatment of national
> > > > sections that were expelled?
> > > >
> > > > Question two: can anyone testify that John Algeo is any less 
> high-
> > > > handed, arrogant, secretive, and unaccountable in his attitudes
> > > > toward the TS and its members?
> > > >
> > > > > population has grown. In addition, with the coming down of 
> Iron
> > > > Curtain,
> > > > > there is more democracy in East European countries. In spite 
> of
> > > > this the
> > > > > membership has declined. Why?
> > > > >
> > > > Question three: how much is the failure to capitalize on new
> > > > opportunities (MOSTLY RUSSIA) for growth of the TS due to an 
> innate
> > > > conservatism, arrogance, high-handedness, and unaccountability 
> of the
> > > > leadership? Leadership that could not or would not be bothered 
> to
> > > > deal with any of the possible changes that an influx of new 
> members
> > > > might bring.
> > > >
> > > > > TS, internationally operated on a de-centralized model. The 
> National
> > > > > Secretaries, once elected, in spite of the National Board, 
> seem to
> > > > operate like in a fiefdom with board going along whatever the NS
> > > > wants.
> > > >
> > > > A fish rots from the head. Having the OH of the ES as the PTS 
> is so
> > > > outright dangerous to the health of the organization because it 
> sets
> > > > a standard that the TS is essentially a front organization. The
> > > > authority of the spiritual leader of the ES corrupts the
> > > > accountability of the elected leader of the TS. It pervades all 
> the
> > > > relationships between the PTS and the rest of the organization, 
> as
> > > > Annie Besant demonstrated remarkably thoroughly.
> > > >
> > > > > At this rate, by end of this century, TS may disappear around 
> the
> > > > world except in India.
> > > >
> > > > Why has the presidency of Radha been so successful in terms of 
> Indian
> > > > membership and so disastrous most everywhere else? Might it 
> have to
> > > > do with consolidating what she sees as her power base and 
> letting
> > > > everyone else go hang? What has she done right in India? How 
> could
> > > > it be used as a model elsewhere?
> > > > >
> > > > And another question: if John Algeo is indeed the kind of 
> person I
> > > > have experienced him to be, and many other once-bitten twice-shy
> > > > members or former members have reported, then why could the TS 
> not
> > > > come up with a single other nominee to succeed Radha?
> > > >
> > > > PJ
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > > 
> > > >
> > > 
> > > 
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>