Theos-Talk Archives (May 2008 Message tt00499)

Dear Anton:
You have brought up key questions. Something may be cooking. Let us wait and
see.
Ramadoss

On 5/12/08, Anton Rozman <anton_rozman@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Ramadoss,
>
> >If only this question was openly discussed one year ago, then by now
> the issue would have been settled. But the way it got started and the
> way it was communicated to the members and the continued silence of
> the leaders, has complicated the election.<
>
> Yes, the fate of the Theosophical Society is at stake and the
> officers should be able to settle this question in advance for the
> sake of common interest.
>
> But even now when the Rules and Regulations were violated and the
> election process compromised we didn't see any reaction. Why the
> meeting of the Executive Committee wasn't called to discuss and
> settle the problem? Why the President is not acting?
>
> Anton
>
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>, MKR
> <mkr777@...> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Anton:
> >
> > I agree with your conclusion.
> >
> > If only this question was openly discussed one year ago, then by
> now the
> > issue would have been settled. But the way it got started and the
> way it was
> > communicated to the members and the continued silence of the
> leaders, has
> > complicated the election.
> >
> > Also, the organizational mindset all over the world is also a
> contributing
> > factor. A more open multi-way communication is what is needed. Even
> now,
> > with all the visions of future, it still appears to be one-way --
> my way or
> > highway -- communication. The western countries had an opportunity
> for over
> > a decade to improve multi-way communication and it has not happened.
> >
> > Just watch what has happened in the last couple of months. We have
> been
> > discussing freely on this maillist. Do you know of anyone in the
> national or
> > international leadership or administrative positions who has shown
> up. Why?
> > I also have a distinctive feeling that there a subtle pressure being
> > exercised at the national level in discouraging organizational and
> > adminstrative people from showing up here even though they are
> eagerly
> > lurking and reading the traffic. I suspect this has been going on
> for years.
> >
> >
> > Even in the early days, when the first independent maillist was
> > established, I learnt about it thru the grapevine, when I
> contacted the
> > national outfit and said send me info on your maillist, was told
> they have
> > none. I could have been told there is an independent maillist.
> Since I did
> > not ask the right question, I did not get the answer. This is what
> lawyers
> > do when in the middle of a law suit. If you do not ask the right
> question,
> > they will not volunteer right answer -- an adversarial mode.
> >
> > Unless and until there is a transformation of the mindset, it is
> going to be
> > difficult to spread the theosophical message in today's world.
> >
> > mkr
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 5/12/08, Anton Rozman <anton_rozman@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear Ramadoss,
> > >
> > > >If there was any question about the certificates or the
> competency
> > > of the doctors, don't you think we would have heard long ago from
> the
> > > Nominators of John Algeo who were alleged poor mental and physical
> > > health of Radha Burnier? Just the long silence speaks very much
> > > louder than any amount of words. We are all grown up and see what
> is
> > > going on.<
> > >
> > > I certainly don't bring the competency of the doctors under the
> > > question but just saying that they expressed their subjective
> > > opinion, that an Occupational Medicine specialist would probably
> > > treat the situation differently, that probably some other doctor
> in
> > > America or Europe would possibly have different opinion too, that
> we
> > > can not consider any opinion of any doctor as the only possible
> one
> > > and the only objective.
> > >
> > > But my main point is that the only person who should evaluate the
> > > situation and act in the best interest of the Theosophical
> Society is
> > > the President herself.
> > >
> > > Anton
> > >
> > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com <theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com> <
> theos-talk%40yahoogroups.com>,
> MKR
> > > <mkr777@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I have again looked at the medical certificates issued by the
> two
> > > > physicians. Both are Internists - doctors trained in diagnosing
> and
> > > treating
> > > > adults.
> > > >
> > > > In the USA, even from childhood, many do periodically get
> fitness
> > > > certificates from a doctor. This can be obtained from Children
> > > Doctors,
> > > > Family Doctors, Internists or anyone who is licensed to practice
> > > medicine.
> > > >
> > > > For example, even children need to get a certificate that they
> are
> > > > physically fit. It does not detail what tests are done, what the
> > > results and
> > > > what interpretations are. It just says whether the person is
> fit or
> > > not or
> > > > even partially fit -- limiting to certain activities.
> > > >
> > > > In the light of the above, I do not have any ground to question
> the
> > > > professional judgement of the two doctors. In addition, we have
> to
> > > note that
> > > > first one is Radha Burnier's doctor for ten years and second
> one is
> > > the
> > > > Principal (President) of the Medical School (College) in
> addition
> > > to being
> > > > he head of the Dept of Medicine.
> > > >
> > > > If there was any question about the certificates or the
> competency
> > > of the
> > > > doctors, don't you think we would have heard long ago from the
> > > Nominators of
> > > > John Algeo who were alleged poor mental and physical health of
> Radha
> > > > Burnier? Just the long silence speaks very much louder than any
> > > amount
> > > > of words. We are all grown up and see what is going on.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > >
> > > > mkr
> > > > THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN TRUTH
> > > >
> > > > On 5/11/08, Anton Rozman <anton_rozman@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Let me start with two presumptions; firstly, there isn't
> present
> > > in
> > > > > the Society an overall agreement or consensus on what the
> role or
> > > job
> > > > > of the President is or should be; and secondly, the actual
> > > election
> > > > > process is probably going on as all previous ones but with the
> > > > > distinction that it became open to the public because of the
> > > internet
> > > > > and that this fact has created the situations to which we
> aren't
> > > > > accustomed to and therefore much of tension.
> > > > >
> > > > > According to the Rules and Regulations of the Theosophical
> Society
> > > > > the President has a lot of duties and responsibilities:
> she/he is
> > > > > Executive Officer and conducts and directs the business of the
> > > > > Society, she/he is Chairman of the General Council and the
> > > Executive
> > > > > Committee and therefore actively involved in the preparation
> of
> > > all
> > > > > necessary documents and decisions of these bodies; she/he is
> > > > > custodian of all archives and records of the Society; she/he
> makes
> > > > > temporary appointments in the offices of the Society; she/he
> co-
> > > > > receives all subscriptions, donations and other moneys; she/he
> > > have
> > > > > control over the securities and invested funds of the Society,
> > > over
> > > > > the transfer of assets of the Society, investments, disposal
> of
> > > Adyar
> > > > > Estate, and so on, and over all related documents; she/he
> sues in
> > > the
> > > > > name of the Society; she/he issues the permissions to reside
> in
> > > the
> > > > > Adyar Estate; she/he issues the Charters and Diplomas, and so
> on.
> > > > >
> > > > > Now, the branch of medicine which occupies itself with the
> fitness
> > > > > for the jobs is Occupational Medicine and is directed by
> > > > > corresponding specialists who execute, among other
> examinations,
> > > also
> > > > > what is usually called Preventive Health Examination with
> > > extensive
> > > > > medical examination of various parameters. At the end of this
> > > > > examination a medical certificate is issued by the specialist
> (In
> > > > > Slovenia every person who starts new employment must go
> through
> > > this
> > > > > examination).
> > > > >
> > > > > The documents which are now presented to the public in regard
> to
> > > the
> > > > > health of the actual President are not medical certificates as
> > > they
> > > > > do not report the results of medical examination (such
> document is
> > > > > strictly confidential) but are doctors' opinions based on
> their
> > > > > examination of the health of the actual President. We don't
> know
> > > to
> > > > > what kind of medical examinations the President was exposed to
> > > and to
> > > > > what branch of medicine the doctors belong to but it seems
> from
> > > their
> > > > > letters that their examinations were executed at the
> Headquarters
> > > of
> > > > > the Society and that no special medical examinations were
> held,
> > > and
> > > > > that that on the basis of these examinations the doctors
> opinions
> > > are
> > > > > that the actual President is "fit to undertake any
> responsibility
> > > > > involving strenuous physical and mental activity" and travel
> and
> > > > > that "she is able to exercise her work as the president of the
> > > > > Theosophical society".
> > > > >
> > > > > Common sense tells me that in the case of 84 year old person
> who
> > > had
> > > > > a stroke such statements hardly reflects the actual situation
> and
> > > > > that doctors comments regarding the situation in the Society
> and
> > > the
> > > > > time when they were issued, clearly indicates that these
> documents
> > > > > were produced because of the President's needs in regard to
> the
> > > > > election process.
> > > > >
> > > > > In the absence of the practice that the candidates for the
> office
> > > of
> > > > > the President should expose themselves to the overall medical
> > > > > examination the election process became, quite naturally in my
> > > > > opinion, influenced by the suspicions in regard to the actual
> > > > > President's fitness from the part of, but far not only, the
> > > > > supporters of contra candidate and by the reaction of the
> > > supporters
> > > > > of the actual President with the production of documents in
> her
> > > > > favor.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, we are witnessing, in my view, an improper behavior from
> the
> > > part
> > > > > of supporters of both candidates and don't have an impartial
> > > medical
> > > > > opinion regarding the health of the actual President.
> Probably the
> > > > > truth is, as always, somewhere in the middle.
> > > > >
> > > > > The solution of this unpleasant situation was and is only in
> the
> > > > > hands of the candidates, but in the first place in the hands
> of
> > > the
> > > > > actual President, for both candidates are also members of the
> > > > > Executive Committee and General Council and therefore it is
> hard
> > > to
> > > > > believe that these bodies will be even able to meet before the
> > > > > conclusion of the elections.
> > > > >
> > > > > Anton
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
> 
>


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