Theos-Talk Archives (May 2008 Message tt00427)

G-eneration O-rganisation D-estruction
Brahma Visnu Shiwa
...



--- Frank Reitemeyer <dzyan@online.de> wrote:

> Maybe, but K did not teach theosophy.
> Theosophy means organizing bodies to collect
> candidates.
> K did not teach how to find a guru, he only taught
> how not to find him.
> He opposed organizations, so he also opposes the
> Masters plan.
> Frank
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Cass Silva
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 3:40 AM
> Subject: Re: Theos-World Re: Failure of Krishnamurti
> on the path of 
> occultism
> 
> 
> But Frank, and Krishnamurti probably knew and also
> understood, that when the 
> pupil is ready, the guru comes to him. So therefore
> from K's point of view 
> no point in wasting time looking for one.
> 
> Cass
> 
> Frank Reitemeyer <dzyan@online.de> wrote:
> 
> K's teaching has much of Zen and was as far as good
> at it was/is a medicine
> for the bigot and superstitious poppycock and cant
> about Masters promoted
> by Leadbeater and Besant within the Adyar part of
> the Theosophical Movement.
> 
> Katherine Tingley as Leader very often disclosed
> this perversion of pukka
> theosophy.
> 
> K's teaching in his negative way to reject false
> gurus fails in the positive
> way to recognize true gurus.
> That's why K's teaching is no theosophy, but it's a
> healing medicine for
> pseudo-theosophy and that is betetr than nothing.
> 
> Theosophists of today have still no idea of what a
> guru makes and how to
> find him.
> 
> Certain influences in the German theosophical scene
> claim, that gurus and
> teachers are not necessary within theosophy, which
> comes only form within.
> Until now they have not profen their claim by
> themselves.
> 
> Pukka theosophy says that outer gurus are necessary.
> You canot get the
> teachings without an outer guru.
> That teaches also mahayana buddhism and also it's
> Western child,
> Christianity.
> 
> Just look at the theosophists. They do not even
> understand the simple,
> outlined tenets which are public.
> 
> All the quarrel would be superfluos and
> brotherliness within the
> Theosophical Movement would appear as soon as the
> teachings would be
> understood.
> Without cant about Masters.
> 
> Theosophists do not even understand, what a
> messenger is.
> That's the reason, why theosophists do not really
> know, who H. P. Blavatsky
> was.
> 
> Frank
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Anand
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 6:38 PM
> Subject: Theos-World Re: Failure of Krishnamurti on
> the path of occultism
> 
> Many followers of Krishnamurti tried to tell me that
> Krishnamurti's
> teaching is same as Buddhism. They told me that Guru
> or Spiritual
> Master does not exist in Buddhism and it is inner
> Guru, which is the
> only Guru, no other Guru is required. Unfortunately
> these followers of
> Krishnamurti are grossly wrong about their idea of
> Buddhism.
> Below I am giving the information about concept Guru
> as understood in
> Buddhism. It is taken from wikipedia and it confirms
> what I was told
> by a lama who is international speaker on Buddhism.
>
-----------------------------------------------------
> Source: Wikipedia
> Guru in Buddhism
> In the Theravada Buddhist tradition, the teacher is
> a valued and
> honoured mentor worthy of great respect, and is a
> source of
> inspiration on the path to Enlightenment.
> Blessed by the guru, whom the disciple regards as a
> Bodhisattva, or
> the embodiment of Buddha, the disciple can continue
> on the way to
> experiencing the true nature of reality. The
> disciple shows great
> appreciation and devotion for the guru, whose
> blessing is the last of
> the four foundations of Vajrayana Buddhism.
> In the Tibetan tradition, the guru is seen as the
> Buddha, the very
> root of spiritual realization and the basis of the
> path. Without the
> teacher, it is asserted, there can be no experience
> or insight. In
> Tibetan texts, great emphasis is placed upon
> praising the virtues of
> the guru.
> The Dalai Lama, speaking of the importance of the
> guru, said: "Rely on
> the teachings to evaluate a guru: Do not have blind
> faith, but also no
> blind criticism." He also observed that the term
> 'living Buddha' is a
> translation of the Chinese words huo fuo. In
> Tibetan, he said, the
> operative word is lama which means 'guru'. A guru is
> someone who is
> not necessarily a Buddha, but is heavy with
> knowledge. The term vajra
> is also used, meaning 'master'.
> Tantric teachings include visualizing the guru and
> making offerings
> praising the guru. The guru is known as the vajra
> (literally
> "diamond") guru. Initiations or ritual empowerments
> are necessary
> before the student is permitted to practise a
> particular tantra. The
> guru does not perform initiation as an individual,
> but as the person's
> own Buddha-nature reflected in the personality of
> the guru. The
> disciple is asked to make vows and commitments which
> preserve the
> spiritual link to the guru, and is told that to
> break this link is a
> serious downfall."
> -----------------------------------------------
> Wikipedia topic ends here.
> ---------------------------------
> Anand Gholap : This idea of Guru is very similar to
> idea of Guru in
> Hinduism. And after studying attitude of Christian
> devotees towards
> Jesus, I think that they give Jesus similar position
> which Buddhists
> or Hindus give to Guru.
> And one can see that Krishnamurti's condemnation of
> Guru concept does
> not fit at all in Buddhist or any other major
> religious tradition.
> Anand Gholap
> 
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