Theos-Talk Archives (May 2008 Message tt00362)

Dear Morten

Thank you for your response and questions.

One of the major components of the Tibetan 
Buddhist tradition involves occult study and 
training leading to the Geshe degree, which can 
often require twenty five years to complete. 
Madame Blavatsky was trained in certain of  
these teachings and practices.

Included in this study and training is profound 
and prolonged meditation practice designed for 
the candidate to achieve the various states of 
sunyata, emptiness or void. 

Two of these forms of meditation practice in 
Tibetan schools are termed Dzogchen and 
Mahamudra. 

Sunyata refers to states of consciousness that 
are outside ordinary mental functioning and 
which recognise the illusory nature of thought. 
During the process of awakening these states, an 
awareness arises within whereupon we realise the 
profound effect that skandhas, biology, 
upbringing, peers, culture and society have on 
our perception and judgements of the world 
around us. 

A component of Madame Blavatsky and her teachers' 
role was to introduce occult knowledge. Another 
was to present this knowledge in such a manner as 
to assist in the transformation of our ordinary 
thought processes, or mindset, towards recognising 
the illusory states and discerning the Real.

"The Mind is the great Slayer of the Real. Let the 
Disciple slay the Slayer." 
"Thou hast to study the voidness of the seeming 
full, the fulness of the seeming void. O fearless 
Aspirant, look deep within the well of thine own 
heart, and answer. Knowest thou of Self the 
powers, O thou perceiver of external shadows?" 
Voice of the Silence. 

Whilst it was Madame Blavatsky's predominant role 
to bring specific academic, occult teachings, 
albeit in the format explained above, it was 
Jiddu Krishnamurti's teaching role to focus almost 
entirely on the illusory nature of mind thereby 
exposing the impediments to true Knowledge. 

In doing this, and as he steadily matured, he 
apparently saw the need to challenge the manner 
in which "theosophical" teachings were producing 
a mindset of holy writ. This was largely due to 
the reductionist and religious mindsets of later 
commentators on the writings of Madame Blavatsky 
and her teachers. These included Bishop C W 
Leadbeater, Dr A Besant, Bishop G Arundale and 
Rev. G Hodson, each a leading light and putative 
authority on "theosophy" in the Adyar Theosophical 
Society.


For these reasons, the roles and teachings of 
Madame Blavatsky and Jiddu Krishnamurti are 
mutually supportive for occult training and 
awakening and are therefore theosophically 
compatible.

Kind regards
Nigel



--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Morten Nymann Olesen" <global-
theosophy@...> wrote:
>
> To all readers
> 
> My views are:
> 
> Thanks Nigel!
> 
> On J. Krishnamurti:
> I do not understand how J. Krishnamurti can be said to be in 
support of Esoteric Buddhism and Blavatsky's version of theosophy on 
the teaching of Master-Chelaship. Krishnamurti rejected guru's and 
called them a crutch.
> Are you able to explain this?
> 
> I do find, that various persons can and do benefit from J. 
Krishnamurti's writings, but I will never find them to be in support 
of the continuation af The Theosophical Society as it was given by H. 
P. Blavatsky.
> 
> And J. Krishnamurti's allowance of himself being called Maitreya by 
Annie Besant and C. W. Leadbeater is nothing but a doctrine, which 
was creating - emotionalism within the Theosophical Society. 
Theosophy is based not belief. It is based on Truth. There is no 
religion higher than TRUTH.
> So I have my difficulties with accepting J. krishnamurti as a 
useful teacher within the Theosophical Society's - H. P. Blavatsky 
branch.
> 
> 
> 
> M. Sufilight
> 
> 
> H. P. Blavatsky said:
> "The Society founded to remedy the glaring evils of Christianity, 
to shun bigotry and intolerance, cant and superstition and to 
cultivate real universal love extending even to the dumb brute".
> (The Collected Writings of H. P. Blavatsky, vol. 7, p.246)
> 
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: nhcareyta 
>   To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 5:03 AM
>   Subject: Theos-World Madame Blavatsky and Jiddu Krishnamurti; a 
conducive "marriage?"
> 
> 
>   Dear Morten and all
> 
>   Morten, thank you for bringing to us what is to 
>   me an inspired understanding of Theosophy.
>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/44047
> 
>   Your friend has touched the core of Theosophy, 
>   that of mindset.
> 
>   Of infinitely greater significance than what we 
>   think, is how we think.
> 
>   All too often, epistemology is virtually ignored 
>   by we students.
> 
>   And, as your friend alludes, as long as we remain 
>   programmed by the predominant mindset of our era 
>   we will rarely touch that which was offered. 
>   We will merely run hither and thither, dominated by 
>   our mental and emotional predispositions.
> 
>   Through profound insight, Jiddu Krishnamurti, along 
>   with many others including Madame Blavatsky and her 
>   teachers, self-realised this and attempted to 
>   expose the nature of free mind for all to consider.
> 
>   Sadly, most later commentators and students of 
>   Madame Blavatsky and her teachers' works fell for 
>   the letter rather than the spirit or mindset of 
>   their words, adjusting and contradicting them 
>   towards their own mindsets' predilections. 
> 
>   This latter mindset, driven largely by fear, is 
>   insidious and pernicious. Through our desperate 
>   desire for security, safety, predictability and 
>   certainty we revert to our established ways of 
>   linear and objective thinking. 
> 
>   Whilst these modalities may have intrinsic value, 
>   they are manifestly limited in apprehending the 
>   vastness of Truth.
> 
>   The nature and method of much of Madame Blavatsky's 
>   writings by necessity demand we think outside the 
>   square. Similarly with the nature and method of 
>   Jiddu Krishnamurti's works. 
> 
>   Whilst Madame Blavatsky encouraged the "free mindset", 
>   ensconced within and through essential occult 
>   teachings, Jiddu Krishnamurti focused more particularly 
>   on mindset itself. 
> 
>   Herein for me lies the harmonious confluence of these 
>   writers and teachers and supports much of what your 
>   friend has written.
> 
>   Regards
>   Nigel
> 
> 
> 
>    
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>