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Re: Theos-World Be aware. - Anathema and Candle-throwers at the Vatican! :-)

May 04, 2008 08:58 AM
by Morten Nymann Olesen

Well, thank you. 

M. Sufilight

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: MKR 
  Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 4:28 PM
  Subject: Re: Theos-World Be aware. - Anathema and Candle-throwers at the Vatican! :-)

  Morton: You are the theosophical poet. Nice work.


  On 5/4/08, Morten Nymann Olesen <> wrote:
  > My views are:
  > * I thought I was clearly referring to our present time in my email.
  > * I am not aware of that I have been bashing anyone in this thread. I have
  > only tried to show the difference between Christian thought and theosophical
  > thought. And maybe also to help some of the members at this place, who still
  > are entangled in Christian thought-patterns.
  > Am I that bad?
  > * I was of course talking about the theosophical sufis and not the bad
  > ones. I thought that this was obvious, but that was appearntly a mistake.
  > - - - - - - -
  > Love can only be got through love.
  > The universe can be expressed with one word, and that is : Love.
  > Try to you understand, that Hate and anger are only lower vibrations of
  > love.
  > When you understand that, you will see,that there is only love...
  > Love comes from the heart, where it grows out and up through the head to
  > the
  > benefit of all the worlds beings.
  > If you think that "the God of your choice" is far away, then help also is
  > far away. If
  > you think that "the God of your choice" is near help is also near.
  > Always help, never hurt. Do your best, and that will be all right, - but
  > then you have to do it - and not only try to do it.
  > Do not give up in your attempt to help others. Keep moving forward.
  > All humans are created equal.
  > My religion is love. My country is the world.
  > I am yours, and you are mine.
  > To be a coofin maker and lose your job, because the number of corpse is
  > going down, is really a tragedy.
  > Love is silent it does not require emails,
  > but when it do, and degrades itself, it covers it self with words.
  > M. Sufilight
  > ----- Original Message -----
  > From: kolad beth
  > To: <>
  > Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 3:42 PM
  > Subject: RE: Theos-World Be aware. - Anathema and Candle-throwers at the
  > Vatican! :-)
  > Some will never let the past die, but I'm outta here. who is bashing who?
  > is the question. In the words of Elvis Costello,
  > what's so funny about peace, love and understanding? (there are many sufis
  > who have bad reputations in their own cultures, as there are buddhists,
  > brahmans, etc. it seems it is this thing called human nature that is the
  > problem)
  > ________________________________
  > > To: <>
  > > From: <>
  > > Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 14:51:24 +0200
  > > Subject: Re: Theos-World Be aware. - Anathema and Candle-throwers at the
  > Vatican! :-)
  > >
  > >
  > > Why not?
  > > Are you saying that people aught not to be made aware of the activities
  > of the Catholic Church?
  > >
  > > Almost the only thing I hear coming from you is a complaint about what I
  > am doing.
  > > Is there a special reason for you to keep bashing my emails without
  > explaining why you do it?
  > >
  > > Let me at least try to explain to you just a very small part about the
  > reason why I wrote these words in my previous email on Anathema and
  > Excommunication.
  > >
  > > Try to read the following article taken down from the hand of Doris
  > Lessing - who recently got the Nobel Prize in literature.
  > > Doris Lessing learned from the Sufi named Idries Shah.
  > > - - - - - - -
  > >
  > > There has always been travellers to the mystic East.
  > >
  > > 'Tell me, Master, what is the Secret?' 'Oh you want a Secret, dear
  > child, is that it? Well, stand on your head for a week, and chant this
  > mantra...'
  > >
  > > But those of us who tries to approach Sufism through what is offered to
  > us in the West seem nearly always to have gone through something like that,
  > and had to outgrow it: it ishow we have been conditioned to think. What we
  > find in the East isnot glamorous and the mystic, but an approach to
  > humanity, both as individuals and as an organic unity, that goes far beyond
  > our own sciences, in conception and achievement - in sophistication.
  > >
  > > How has this come about?
  > >
  > > For one thing, perhaps the culture we inhabit is not the advanced,
  > open-minded culture we believe it is. Outsiders, who have always been
  > valuable in providing insights into sciences, although they are always
  > resisted at first, judge us differently.
  > >
  > > We are judged as being fettered, and in many ways. We easily talk now of
  > Western arrogance; we begin to know we are insular. But it is a slow
  > business, for we have to contend, in the case of the Middle East and Central
  > Asia, with the implanted results of hundreds of years of suspicion of the
  > dreaded Saracen. This has had, still has, stultifying effects on our
  > culture, from ignorance and bigotry about Islam, to something like this:
  > that the symbols for the planets in astrology - Mars, Venus, Mercury and the
  > rest - are no more than Arabic letters, easily recognisable as such to those
  > who know Arabic. Yet we ascribe to them amazing origins. A tiny example,
  > even an absurd one, of an enormous unmapped area. But why is it not being
  > researched?
  > >
  > > We may go on murmuring about Western complacency, but it is another
  > thing actually to face it. Idries Shah instances our belief that we in the
  > West pioneered certain psychological ideas. But the 'discoveries' of Freud
  > and Jung are to be found in Al Ghazzali and Ibn El Arabi, who died in the
  > twelfth century, and in other great thinkers of the time. (Jung acknowledged
  > his debt to the East. Is it not remarkable that his disciples are not
  > curious about what else there might be?) Al Ghazzali wrote extensively about
  > conditioning: then, as now, Sufi teachers were concerned about freeing
  > people from social and religious indoctrinations.
  > >
  > > What happened to all that expertise? It was used. It became the property
  > of doctors of the mind, of the soul, of the body; it has been built on,
  > developed...But we, in the West, have been cut off from it - are still cut
  > off from it, and will be until we are prepared to think hard about our own
  > mental sets.
  > >
  > > Another instance: we tell ourselves about our inifinitely various and
  > > rich language. But the fact is that English is impoverished; it lacks
  > > words and concepts we need. Any writer who has tried to describe
  > > certain processes and experiences has come up against it: the absence of
  > words. There are ways around it - analogy is one - but the problem
  > > remains. A handful of pitful and worn terms - unconscious, soul,
  > > spirit, collective unconscious, super-mind, ego, super-ego, id,
  > paranormal,
  > > ESP, super-nature - and suddenly, very soon, you've run into the sand.
  > > You cannot use these words for fresh experiences, new ideas,
  > > because each is loaded with unwanted associations. But other
  > > languages are not so barren; their words are not so overloaded. No,
  > > this is not an essay in disparaement of English, or in admiration of
  > > other tongues, for the sake of it, but a plea for recognition: if there
  > is
  > > a desperate and urgent need for something, that need may be met. I hope
  > so. Meanwhile, it is hard going. I am not a linguist, to put it mildly, but
  > my tiniest aquaintance with Persian, for example, shows
  > > our own dreadful deprivation. But that is the language of a culture
  > > where certain kinds of spirituality were in active operation for
  > > hundreds of years....
  > > ... Friends who study 'primitive' cultures and know the language of
  > > American Indians, or certain African societies,
  > > say that these, too, are well supplied with concepts that we lack (in
  > the english language). Our english language is problably the best
  > > of tools for technical processes, as long as technical processes are
  > > still conceived of as being restricted to the mechanical, but when they
  > > impinge on the frontiers of the mind...
  > >
  > > And there is another, Himalayan block, which we scarely consider.
  > > It is that for 2.000 years the West has been under a most terrible
  > > tyranny, the Christian religion. (I am aware that at this point, readers
  > > are sighing, thinking vaguely, 'How very nineteenth century.') But it
  > > was, historically speaking, an extremely short time ago. I have met
  > > people who came into conflict with the churches, when all they wanted
  > > was to opt out of certainties and dogma into agnosticism. Wives and
  > > husbands left them, they lost jobs, were socially ostracised, were cast
  > > off from families - and went to the colonies. There I met them as a
  > > child. Now the churches has a benevolent, harmless aspect, half
  > > social agency, half genial bully; they cajole people into thinking that
  > > they really have to be born again, or BELONG to something or other. But
  > > for 2.000 years we were kept in a mental straitjacket, and even the
  > > most limited rebellion was horribly punished. Luther's was limited.
  > >
  > > He said, I insist on the right to talk with God directly, without the
  > > mediation of the church. He did not say, For many thousands of years
  > there have been people in this world who have had techniques, the
  > > information, to enable those with sufficient preparation to make use of
  > > these tools, to acheive states of mind, or of spirit, that the churches
  > > know nothing about. (But at this point I have to make clear that
  > > Sufism respects all religions, saying that the Truth is at the core of
  > > each. It is the tyrant, benevolent or wicked, who has to be exposed.)
  > > What I would like to know is this: how is it that, understanding that
  > > our culture has had two millennia of certain kind of indoctrination,
  > > we, our scienctist, are not researching the effects on our mental
  > > processes? For these effects are there; once you begin thikning on
  > > these lines, they are very evident."
  > >
  > > M. Sufilight
  > >
  > > ----- Original Message -----
  > > From: kolad beth
  > > To: <>
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