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Re: Theos-World Be aware. - Anathema and Candle-throwers at the Vatican! :-)

May 04, 2008 07:28 AM
by MKR

Morton: You are the theosophical poet. Nice work.


On 5/4/08, Morten Nymann Olesen <> wrote:
> My views are:
> * I thought I was clearly referring to our present time in my email.
> * I am not aware of that I have been bashing anyone in this thread. I have
> only tried to show the difference between Christian thought and theosophical
> thought. And maybe also to help some of the members at this place, who still
> are entangled in Christian thought-patterns.
> Am I that bad?
> * I was of course talking about the theosophical sufis and not the bad
> ones. I thought that this was obvious, but that was appearntly a mistake.
> - - - - - - -
> Love can only be got through love.
> The universe can be expressed with one word, and that is : Love.
> Try to you understand, that Hate and anger are only lower vibrations of
> love.
> When you understand that, you will see,that there is only love...
> Love comes from the heart, where it grows out and up through the head to
> the
> benefit of all the worlds beings.
> If you think that "the God of your choice" is far away, then help also is
> far away. If
> you think that "the God of your choice" is near help is also near.
> Always help, never hurt. Do your best, and that will be all right, - but
> then you have to do it - and not only try to do it.
> Do not give up in your attempt to help others. Keep moving forward.
> All humans are created equal.
> My religion is love. My country is the world.
> I am yours, and you are mine.
> To be a coofin maker and lose your job, because the number of corpse is
> going down, is really a tragedy.
> Love is silent it does not require emails,
> but when it do, and degrades itself, it covers it self with words.
> M. Sufilight
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: kolad beth
> To: <>
> Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 3:42 PM
> Subject: RE: Theos-World Be aware. - Anathema and Candle-throwers at the
> Vatican! :-)
> Some will never let the past die, but I'm outta here. who is bashing who?
> is the question. In the words of Elvis Costello,
> what's so funny about peace, love and understanding? (there are many sufis
> who have bad reputations in their own cultures, as there are buddhists,
> brahmans, etc. it seems it is this thing called human nature that is the
> problem)
> ________________________________
> > To: <>
> > From: <>
> > Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 14:51:24 +0200
> > Subject: Re: Theos-World Be aware. - Anathema and Candle-throwers at the
> Vatican! :-)
> >
> >
> > Why not?
> > Are you saying that people aught not to be made aware of the activities
> of the Catholic Church?
> >
> > Almost the only thing I hear coming from you is a complaint about what I
> am doing.
> > Is there a special reason for you to keep bashing my emails without
> explaining why you do it?
> >
> > Let me at least try to explain to you just a very small part about the
> reason why I wrote these words in my previous email on Anathema and
> Excommunication.
> >
> > Try to read the following article taken down from the hand of Doris
> Lessing - who recently got the Nobel Prize in literature.
> > Doris Lessing learned from the Sufi named Idries Shah.
> > - - - - - - -
> >
> > There has always been travellers to the mystic East.
> >
> > 'Tell me, Master, what is the Secret?' 'Oh you want a Secret, dear
> child, is that it? Well, stand on your head for a week, and chant this
> mantra...'
> >
> > But those of us who tries to approach Sufism through what is offered to
> us in the West seem nearly always to have gone through something like that,
> and had to outgrow it: it ishow we have been conditioned to think. What we
> find in the East isnot glamorous and the mystic, but an approach to
> humanity, both as individuals and as an organic unity, that goes far beyond
> our own sciences, in conception and achievement - in sophistication.
> >
> > How has this come about?
> >
> > For one thing, perhaps the culture we inhabit is not the advanced,
> open-minded culture we believe it is. Outsiders, who have always been
> valuable in providing insights into sciences, although they are always
> resisted at first, judge us differently.
> >
> > We are judged as being fettered, and in many ways. We easily talk now of
> Western arrogance; we begin to know we are insular. But it is a slow
> business, for we have to contend, in the case of the Middle East and Central
> Asia, with the implanted results of hundreds of years of suspicion of the
> dreaded Saracen. This has had, still has, stultifying effects on our
> culture, from ignorance and bigotry about Islam, to something like this:
> that the symbols for the planets in astrology - Mars, Venus, Mercury and the
> rest - are no more than Arabic letters, easily recognisable as such to those
> who know Arabic. Yet we ascribe to them amazing origins. A tiny example,
> even an absurd one, of an enormous unmapped area. But why is it not being
> researched?
> >
> > We may go on murmuring about Western complacency, but it is another
> thing actually to face it. Idries Shah instances our belief that we in the
> West pioneered certain psychological ideas. But the 'discoveries' of Freud
> and Jung are to be found in Al Ghazzali and Ibn El Arabi, who died in the
> twelfth century, and in other great thinkers of the time. (Jung acknowledged
> his debt to the East. Is it not remarkable that his disciples are not
> curious about what else there might be?) Al Ghazzali wrote extensively about
> conditioning: then, as now, Sufi teachers were concerned about freeing
> people from social and religious indoctrinations.
> >
> > What happened to all that expertise? It was used. It became the property
> of doctors of the mind, of the soul, of the body; it has been built on,
> developed...But we, in the West, have been cut off from it - are still cut
> off from it, and will be until we are prepared to think hard about our own
> mental sets.
> >
> > Another instance: we tell ourselves about our inifinitely various and
> > rich language. But the fact is that English is impoverished; it lacks
> > words and concepts we need. Any writer who has tried to describe
> > certain processes and experiences has come up against it: the absence of
> words. There are ways around it - analogy is one - but the problem
> > remains. A handful of pitful and worn terms - unconscious, soul,
> > spirit, collective unconscious, super-mind, ego, super-ego, id,
> paranormal,
> > ESP, super-nature - and suddenly, very soon, you've run into the sand.
> > You cannot use these words for fresh experiences, new ideas,
> > because each is loaded with unwanted associations. But other
> > languages are not so barren; their words are not so overloaded. No,
> > this is not an essay in disparaement of English, or in admiration of
> > other tongues, for the sake of it, but a plea for recognition: if there
> is
> > a desperate and urgent need for something, that need may be met. I hope
> so. Meanwhile, it is hard going. I am not a linguist, to put it mildly, but
> my tiniest aquaintance with Persian, for example, shows
> > our own dreadful deprivation. But that is the language of a culture
> > where certain kinds of spirituality were in active operation for
> > hundreds of years....
> > ... Friends who study 'primitive' cultures and know the language of
> > American Indians, or certain African societies,
> > say that these, too, are well supplied with concepts that we lack (in
> the english language). Our english language is problably the best
> > of tools for technical processes, as long as technical processes are
> > still conceived of as being restricted to the mechanical, but when they
> > impinge on the frontiers of the mind...
> >
> > And there is another, Himalayan block, which we scarely consider.
> > It is that for 2.000 years the West has been under a most terrible
> > tyranny, the Christian religion. (I am aware that at this point, readers
> > are sighing, thinking vaguely, 'How very nineteenth century.') But it
> > was, historically speaking, an extremely short time ago. I have met
> > people who came into conflict with the churches, when all they wanted
> > was to opt out of certainties and dogma into agnosticism. Wives and
> > husbands left them, they lost jobs, were socially ostracised, were cast
> > off from families - and went to the colonies. There I met them as a
> > child. Now the churches has a benevolent, harmless aspect, half
> > social agency, half genial bully; they cajole people into thinking that
> > they really have to be born again, or BELONG to something or other. But
> > for 2.000 years we were kept in a mental straitjacket, and even the
> > most limited rebellion was horribly punished. Luther's was limited.
> >
> > He said, I insist on the right to talk with God directly, without the
> > mediation of the church. He did not say, For many thousands of years
> there have been people in this world who have had techniques, the
> > information, to enable those with sufficient preparation to make use of
> > these tools, to acheive states of mind, or of spirit, that the churches
> > know nothing about. (But at this point I have to make clear that
> > Sufism respects all religions, saying that the Truth is at the core of
> > each. It is the tyrant, benevolent or wicked, who has to be exposed.)
> > What I would like to know is this: how is it that, understanding that
> > our culture has had two millennia of certain kind of indoctrination,
> > we, our scienctist, are not researching the effects on our mental
> > processes? For these effects are there; once you begin thikning on
> > these lines, they are very evident."
> >
> > M. Sufilight
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: kolad beth
> > To: <>
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