Theos-Talk Archives (May 2008 Message tt00064)

To Adeaise and all readers


My views are:


The following was written out of compassion to all and to the cause. Let each individual learn to think for themselves.



Adelaise wrote:
"One 
of the most salient principles by which the theosophist is taught to 
live is non-judgementalism. No one of us has the right to judge 
another. "


M. Sufilight says:
I will have to disagree somewhat with this view upon theosophical teachings.
Look at the below quote by H. P. Blavatsky.


Blavatsky said:
"He who objects to having his views controverted and criticized must not write for Lucifer. " ..."Moreover, we have given good proofs of our impartiality. We published articles and letters criticizing not alone our personal theosophical and philosophical views, but discussing on subjects directly concerned with our personal honour and reputation; reviving the infamous calumnies in which not simple doubts, but distinctly formulated charges of dishonesty were cast into our teeth and our private character was torn to shreds (Vide "A Glance at Theosophy from the Outside", Lucifer for October, 1888). And if the editor will never shrink from what she considers her duty to her readers, and that she is prepared to throw every possible light upon mooted questions in order that truth should shine bright and hideous lies and superstitions be shown under their true colours - why should our contributors prove themselves so thin-skinned?"
( IS DENUNCIATION A DUTY? by H. P. Blavatsky - Lucifer Magazine 1888)




I do not hope, that the above view offend any of the overly-sensitive or thin-skinned members on this planet.




- - - - - - - 

1.

Mary Lutyens told about J. Krishnamurti's views:
"He was quoted in Mary Lutyens book as saying to the general secretary of the Theosophical Society for
Wales, the following statement: "He told us that he had never been able to read a Theosophical book in His life -
could not understand our Theosophical jargon and, although he had heard many Theosophical lectures, none of
them had convinced him of their knowledge or truth.""
(" Life and Death of Krishnamurti " by Mary Lutyens, p. 71 )



2. C. W. Leabeater failed:
"The great purpose of this drawing together is to prepare the way for the coming of the new Messiah, or, as we should say in Theosophical circles, the next advent of the Lord Maitreya, as a great spiritual teacher, bringing a new religion. The time is rapidly approaching when this shall be launched - a teaching which shall unify the other religions, and compared with them shall stand upon a broader basis and keep its purity longer." (C. W. Leadbeater, The Inner Life I, p. 114, written 1911)



3. Krishnamurti's Messiah Craze:
LET UNDERSTANDING BE THE LAW (Krishnamurti's Messiah Craze)
"I know that which I am; I know my purpose in life because I am Life itself without name, without limitation. And because I am Life I would urge you to worship that Life, not in this form that is Krishnamurti but the Life which dwells in each one of you. Put aside all the paraphernalia of beliefs, religions and ceremonies, and you will find the Truth."
http://jiddu-krishnamurti.net/en/1928-let-understanding-be-the-law/jiddu-krishnamurti-let-understanding-be-the-law-07.php

"Do not use me as an authority, do not say that Krishnamurti disapproves of ceremonies. I neither approve nor disapprove."
http://jiddu-krishnamurti.net/en/1928-let-understanding-be-the-law/jiddu-krishnamurti-let-understanding-be-the-law-02.php


4. Krishnamurti's negative stance on the Theosophists:
In the Star Bulletin August 1931, Page 7 - J. Krishnamurti says:
" So I have made it prefectly clear that what is generally believed by the Christian, the Theosophist, the Hindu, the Buddhist to be Truth, has nothing in common with what I say"
(Star Bulletin as Ebook at Google)


5.
 Krishnamurti the greatest Crutch:
"In a typical exchange, Anandamayi Ma had asked him "Why do you deny gurus? You who are the Guru of Gurus" to which Krishnamurti replied, "People use the guru as a crutch." "
"Anadamayee then said 'People come to listen to you in thousands. That means you are a guru'. Thereupon it  is said Krishnamurti held her hand gently and did not answer. The saint,  I think, had made her point."
Jayakar, "Krishnamurti", p 14
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiddu_Krishnamurti#_ref-91
http://rajbhavankolkata.nic.in/html/speech45.htm


6. The sanctioning of The Liberal Catholic Church done by the so-called Messiah Krishnamurti:
THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN TRUTH
http://www.theosophical.ca/NoReligion.htm




M. Sufilight says:
My problem, if it is a problem, is that when you accept the line of thought J. Krishnamurti throws at you, you are easily being lead to conclude that The Theosophical Soceity as it was given by H. P. Blavatsky aught to be closed down. And that is not an acceptable stance as far as I am concerned. What would the general idea expressed by the founders and in Mahatma letters have been with such an attitude.

I find it difficult to view the expressions comming from J. Krishnamurti as promoting anything else.
I almost never said anything substantial about the role The Theosophical Society aught to be given when compared with his teachings. And when he said something (officially) it was almost always a negative stance on its existence. This and his rather blurred status of being a Messiah make me conclude, that he is not a Messiah and because of that an obstacle to most people walking the Path either within or outside the various TS branches or offshots. (I would say: He was a Messiah with lukewarm fruits if you for instance compare him with Sathya Sai Baba. And we aught to know people on their fruits. He did not really give anyone any proof's om Guptavidya. Only a pseudo-Adwaita teaching, that is all.)

J. Krishnamurti was or is just another one in the collection of Messiah Crazes. His followers have created it and continues to do so, - with some influential TS Adyar members included.  There are Benjamin Cremes - Meitreya and Sai Baba cult. There are channelers of Ascended Masters, who claim they are in communion with not only the 1. Logos, but also the extra cosmic one. In other branches we witness similar related activities. It is spreading. Everyone want to promote a new savior. A living one or one who recently past away, or one only THEY know how to channel.

This is crazy, as far as I am concerned.

The teaching is important. And I do not mind that J. Krishnamurti, Alice A. Bailey, CWL, Annie Besant and other later authors and lectures are doing their best as long as they do not drag the good name of H. P. Blavatsky down to their level of Ignorance and call it wisdom. They are in fact doing perfectly good social service being sort of local psychoteraphists of a special branch or something similar. They have a social function and keep emotional cults going, which think they themselves are wise or at least intellectual.
:-)


But, these are just my views, and who really cares about me.
I will rest a litte while. Someone have been beating me up - using psyhic powers. I guess it is not my day. Karma is a heavy burden sometimes.




As long as I do not see any views saying the opposite about Krishanmurti, I will let it take its course for a while.



M. Sufilight






>>>>>>><<<<<<<
H. P. Blavatsky said:
"The Society founded to remedy the glaring evils of Christianity, to shun 
bigotry and intolerance, cant and superstition and to cultivate real 
universal love extending even to the dumb brute".
(The Collected Writings of H. P. Blavatsky, vol. 7, p.246)

Master KH wrote in a Mahatma Letter:
For the opposition represents enormous vested interests, and they have 
enthusiastic help from the Dugpas -- in Bhootan and the Vatican!
(Here is all of Mahtama Letter, No. 55. Dugpas are the same as selfish 
Magicians.)
>>>>>>><<<<<<<

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: adelasie 
  To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 3:36 PM
  Subject: Re: Theos-World Failure of J. Krishnamurti on the Path of Occultism


  Anand,

  With all due respect to your right to your own opinion, it is 
  important to me that another point of view be represented here. One 
  of the most salient principles by which the theosophist is taught to 
  live is non-judgementalism. No one of us has the right to judge 
  another. We do not know the other's heart. We do not know the other's 
  Karma. We may find the way by asking ourselves sincerely, "How would 
  I feel if someone said these things about me?" The answer will 
  determine, by the application of the Golden Rule, whether to refrain 
  from making the statement or not. In this case it seems quite clear. 
  You are talking about someone who is gone from this plane and cannot 
  respond to your allegations. You are talking about someone who was an 
  inspirational teacher for many. And, you are trampling on some pretty 
  tender ground, when you say, as if you or anyone could possibly know, 
  that Krishmamurti failed on the path. It would be more to the point 
  for a theosophist to show compassion for this soul who had a rather 
  difficult path to follow. However, most important here is that the 
  new student, someone who has possibly just joined this list, be able 
  to see another side of the issues you have raised, and learn one of 
  the best lessons of Theosophy, to think for him or herself.

  Adelasie

  On 3 May 2008 at 16:46, ANAND GHOLAP wrote:

  > Dear Friends,
  > 
  > Below is my article on Failure of J. Krishnamurti on the Path of Occultism.
  > 
  > After some time it will be available on my web site at this address.
  > 
  > www.AnandGholap.net/Failure_Of_J_Krishnamurti.htm
  > 
  > -------------------------------------------------
  > 
  > On the path of occultism there are some aspirants who fail. Virtues like truthfulness, love, kindness must be developed to very high degree in order to succeed in occultism. If these qualities are less, person fails on the path of occultism. J. Krishnamurti is example of such failure. 
  > 
  > In Bible, one can read, how one spirit rebelled against God and 
  created doubt about God and His teaching in the minds of Adam and 
  Eve. J. Krishnamurti's speeches are of similar nature. According to 
  him all great teachers and their teachings corrupt minds of people. 
  J. Krishnamurti does not have any respect for even great teachers 
  like Lord Jesus Christ. Anybody who reads J. Krishnamurti's speeches 
  will notice that J. Krishnamurti did not have knowledge of what is 
  written by other spiritual teachers, what is written in religions. 
  Also one can notice that J. Krishnamurti did not have capacity to 
  investigate hidden laws of nature, he was not clairvoyant or 
  occultist. So there is no originality or original, new knowledge in 
  J. Krishnamurti's speeches. This shows that he did not have capacity 
  to study writings of other teachers, and he himself also did not have 
  capacity to find laws of nature. All philosophy of Krishnamurti is 
  based on one principle- to attack teachings of other great teachers. 

  > 
  > According to J. Krishnamurti all great teachers corrupt minds of people, and their teaching is harmful to people. This idea of J. Krishnamurti is ridiculously wrong. It is like saying that if a person is not taught anything, he will be better person. What J. Krishnamurti is saying is uneducated tribal man is better than the educated scientist who discovers solutions to solve problems of humanity. What Krishnamurti is saying is person who never studied any relegion or spiritual teaching is more virtuous than person who studies religions. This is highly misleading and damaging to humanity. Most people on earth, at present stage of evolution are selfish and have all the vices instinctively. And only way to keep them on the path of virtues is to teach them importance of virtues and bad consequences of vices. Lord Jesus Christ, Theosophy and such great teachings do exactly that. And such teaching is absolutely necessary to make people virtuous, loving, kind, truthful. 
  > 
  > J. Krishnamurti attacked teaching of great spiritual teachers. One might think that demonic, evil spirit had taken his possession and made him talk against holy teachers and their teachings. According to Christianity people are saved by faith in Jesus Christ. And Krishnmurti's whole philosophy is intended to destroy faith of people in Godly things, teaching of prophets and saints. When C.W. Leadbeater found J. Krishnamurti, he had expected that J. Krishnamurti would become vehicle for Christ. But this experiment failed miserably. J. Krishnamurti neither understood Theosophy, nor any other teaching. What he could do was only destroy faith of people in all great spiritual and religious teaching. 
  > 
  > C. W. Leadbeater was a great occultist who successfully guided tens of thousand of people in spiritual development. He prepared great Theosophists like C. Jinarajadasa and G. S. Arundale. C. W. Leadbeater could not prepare Krishnamurti because of big weakenesses J. Krishnamurti had. 
  > 
  > Krishnamurti's speeches did much damage to great organization Theosophical Society, Adyar. This damage was done in many ways. Members of TS lost faith in Theosophy because of J. Krishnamurti's speeches. Some officers in TS believed Krishnamurti's speeches are Theosophy. These officers misled many ordinary members of TS and removed faith of members from teaching of Annie Besant and Leadbeater. These officers misled ordinary members of TS by telling them that Krishnamurti's speeches are Theosophy.
  > 
  > Krishnamurti also did much damage to great religions like Christianity. Large number of people lost faith in Christianity because of Krishnamurti's speeches against religions.
  > 
  > Krishnamurti talks about instant knowing of Truth. According to Krishnamurti person knows Truth instantly without long preparation. But the fact is in last 70 years also none came forward and said that he knew Truth by following Krishnamurti's methods.
  > 
  > According to Krishnamurti following Spiritual Master or Guru is harmful and people should not follow any Spiritual Masters. Facts prove that Krishnamurti was wrong here also. History of thousands of years is filled with testimonies of self-realized people about how Spiritual Masters or Gurus helped spiritual development of disciples.
  > 
  > According to J. Krishnamurti spiritual teaching, reading books on spirituality corrupt minds of people. Facts prove that J. Krishnamurti is wrong. There are tens of thousands of testimonies about how Bible and other spiritual books helped people greatly in spiritual development.
  > 
  > J. Krishnamurti failed on the path of occultism and he misled people by removing their faith in great Spiritual Teachers and Theosophy. What people should do now is completely ignore Krishnamurti's speeches and continue studying good spiritual teaching given by great Theosophists like Annie Besant and C.W. Leadbeater.
  > 
  > Readers will get references about J. Krishnamurti or Alcyone in Theosophical literature. These references may be read in order to understand how Krishnamurti was being prepared for higher spiritual growth. J. Krishnamurti later failed. So what he spoke independently should be completely ignored. His speeches are damaging to people.
  > 
  > In the name of Jesus I destroy demonic influence of J. Krishnamurti's speeches on the world.
  > 
  > In the name of Jesus I restore faith of people in great spiritual teaching of Annie Besant and C. W. Leadbeater.
  > 
  > Anand Gholap
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  > 
  > 



   

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]