Theos-Talk Archives (May 2007 Message tt00009)

Dear Cass
Thank you for your response and interesting perspective.

You write, "I would think that newcomers to Theosophy would rightly 
say to themselves, "they cannot even agree on the teachings".

Yes, you raise an eternal dilemma. 
In pointing out the differing versions of theosophy, those of us who 
think that Madame Blavatsky and her teachers shared the most 
authentic, albeit necessarily imperfect version of Theosophy, create 
not only the possibility of what you suggest for student/inquirers 
but also run the risk of protesting too much and thereby creating an 
allure for pseudo or neo-theosophy. 
Moreover, we run the additional risks of generating antagonistic 
energies which in themselves may potentially be counter-productive as 
well as appearing as dogmatists ourselves.

My decision to challenge obvious contradictions and deceptions in the 
various literatures arises after observing the effects of pseudo/neo-
theosophy on the mindsets of many people. Where Madame Blavatsky and 
the Mahatmas' Theosophy encourages and facilitates an open, non-
dogmatic and ever-inquiring mind to me, certain other later versions 
do not. They are mostly authoritarian in style opening the way for 
blind-minded obedience to their holy writ. This is not for me 
the "new continent of thought" promoted by the Mahatmas and is not 
that to which they were referring when Madame Blavatsky re-introduced 
the term Theosophy to the modern age.

It seems to me that so long as people blindly follow and accept 
others' pronouncements, INCLUDING those of the Mahatmas and Madame 
Blavatsky, we as a humanity will never fully think for ourselves and 
will continue to think, speak and act largely from our often fear-
based, habit, conditioned, reactive mindset produced and inherited 
from skandhas, parents, school, peers, society and culture.

Perhaps only when we truly liberate our minds will we see beyond 
these distinctions and limitations and will indeed begin to develop a 
nucleus of the Brotherhood (Unity) of humanity. Until then, many of 
us will continue to follow like sheep whichever person, group or 
organisation happens to tell us either that which we would like to 
hear or how we would like things to be.

In the meantime, please don't feel too "frustrated". We are each 
doing what we think to be the right thing. Perhaps there is a place 
for all honest and truthful avenues of approach?

Thanks again Cass.
Kind regards
Nigel


--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Cass Silva <silva_cass@...> wrote:
>
> No I don't thinks so Nigel, it keeps us grounded into intellectual 
debate.  I would think that newcomers to Theosophy would rightly say 
to themselves, "they cannot even agree on the teachings".  As far as 
I am concerned HPB was the messenger chosen, not Leadbeater, not 
Besant, not Bailey, so it is her teachings that I am loyal to.  
Without HPB there would not have been a theosophical society.  If 
others choose to promote CWL et al, then I guess it will come down to 
their motives.  As I said, I think the time has passed when we can 
sit around and muse about right or wrong teachings.
>    
>   People in the world are truly living in fear of the unexpected, 
especially with the doom and gloom predicted by the new agers and the 
2012 apocolypstics.  They need a sound, cohesive, reliable philosophy 
that will assist them in whatever lies ahead for all of humanity.  
Even if we can only change the fear-thinking of a few it will benefit 
all.  
>    
>   HPB herself predicted major changes in the world.  We can smugly 
sit back and take comfort in knowing that if we do not survive the 
next 10 years we will have more opportunities. What about those poor 
souls who are in spiritual limbo?
>    
>   That's my views, I am not trying to push HPB down anyone's 
throats, but provide an alternative viewpoint in relation to death 
and dying.
>    
>   Cheers
>   Cass
> 
> nhcareyta <nhcareyta@...> wrote:
>           Dear Cass
> If I may add a comment to your posting to Leon.
> 
> Your write:
> 
> >We can only assist others if we get HPB's teachings out to the 
> >general public.
> 
> This is such an important statement and I (for what it's worth) 
> commend you for your sentiment. Indeed, some of us are doing that 
as 
> much and as best as we can.
> 
> In so doing we must also challenge those who purport to be, but in 
> some part are clearly not, representing her works.
> 
> When those misrepresentations and deceptions of "100 years ago" are 
> still to this day put forward as representing her work, do we not 
> need to clarify this for sake of theosophical inquirers and 
students?
> 
> Regards
> Nigel
> 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Cass Silva <silva_cass@> wrote:
> >
> > Leon
> > I am so glad you have brought up this issue. I get frustrated 
> when only receive mail about who said what, who did what 100 years 
> ago. It seems to me that the world is going quite mad at the moment 
> and as theosophists we are still dallying with the founders. Is 
this 
> truly what HPB wanted when she gave us the Ancient Teachings?
> > 
> > We can only assist others if we get HPB's teachings out to the 
> general public. I am busy on several forums which are curious about 
> what she actually had to say.
> > 
> > When I see Theos Talk all I can think is about Barbra 
> Streisand, "Talk amongst yourselves"
> > 
> > I think the time for study is over, it is now time for action. 
> Now time to walk the walk.
> > 
> > Cass
> > 
> > 
> > leonmaurer@ wrote:
> > Rad,
> > 
> > Guess that's the way it has to be. One way or the other, the 
planet 
> someday 
> > will have to be cleared of the bulk of its human population that 
> keeps 
> > increasing in greater and greater numbers to eventually reach a 
> point -- which is 
> > not too far off -- where the global ecoology can't support them 
and 
> their 
> > infrastructures any longer. 
> > 
> > Besides, isn't it necessary to make room for the new cycle of the 
> now 
> > infiltrating sixth family race -- with a higher level of 
> mental/moral (Buddhi 
> > nature) development -- so as to continue the human evolution to 
an 
> even higher 
> > level before the sixth subrace appears? (Or is it subrace and 
root 
> race?) I 
> > have no trouble wrapping my mind around that aspect of 
theosophical 
> teachings... 
> > Since the possibility of such round and race evolution it 
> describes, is 
> > perfectly consistent with the ABC model -- which sees evolution, 
on 
> all its levels, 
> > and particularly the physical, much like the "morphic resonance" 
> interaction 
> > of hyperspace morphogenetic or "morphic" fields, as explained by 
> Rupert 
> > Sheldrake in his book "A New science of Life."
> > 
> > Both Blavatsky and I (among many others, I suspect) thought this 
> culling 
> > could be caused by a sudden geographic pole shift, or series of 
> volcanic disasters 
> > due to intelligent nature reflecting back mankind's accumulated 
> evil 
> > thoughts. Or, if it occurred as the result of human actions -- we 
> could have 
> > anticipated a global warming and massive floods, a worldwide 
> pandemic, or a globally 
> > catastrophic nuclear war. 
> > 
> > Who would have thought it could be the lowly bees that were 
> destined (or 
> > chosen) to do the work? They gave us our nourishment, and now, 
they 
> seem to be 
> > taking away.
> > 
> > It's ironic... But looking at the way mankind's greed and 
ignorance 
> of their 
> > true nature have done it to themselves, it seems quite 
appropriate, 
> don't you 
> > think? 
> > 
> > Isn't the purpose of each of our lives, to learn the lessons that 
> we need to 
> > know to arrive at self realization and to achieve a "nucleus," 
then 
> a seed, 
> > and ultimately a tree -- as a universal brotherhood of all 
mankind -
> - so as to 
> > continue its further evolution toward its ultimate godlike 
nature --
> with each 
> > of us a consciously aware part of it? Isn't that the ultimate 
> reward for all 
> > individual points of Mankind's consciousness on this globe who 
> manage to 
> > survive through the whole lifetime of the manvantara without 
losing 
> their 
> > conscience or inner light, and perhaps ending up isolated in the 
> world of dark matter? 
> > So, what's lost, if much of the current world population is 
starved 
> out of 
> > existence? Especially, since they are the one's who caused it. 
> Doesn't 
> > perfect justice in the form of karma, as you sow, so hall you 
reap, 
> rule the 
> > world? And, aren't the lives of our descendents as important as 
our 
> present 
> > lives? Especially, if such descendants could be part of the 
> incoming higher 
> > evolved mankind that we will ultimately be reborn into. Much food 
> for thought 
> > here, eh... Even for the skeptics -- who can't imagine or think 
> about any 
> > possibility of consciousness beyond their present material 
> lifetimes. 
> > 
> > BTW, the theosophical origin of the bees and the ants, along with 
> us -- as a 
> > necessary support of the ecology that, in turn, supports the 
> universal 
> > consciousness expressed in Man -- might make sense if we assume 
> that HPB was using a 
> > metaphor, i.e., Moon as a substitute for Mother or primal matter, 
> out of 
> > whose bosom all life arises and evolves. She also taught that the 
> physical moon 
> > was simply the shell of the dead Earth left over from a previous 
> > manifestation or Manvantara -- that was necessary to stay and 
> encircle around so as to 
> > help maintain the orbit of the earth, and support the circadian 
> rhythms of all 
> > life, as well as acting as the mirror to reflect the highest 
> spiritual rays of 
> > the Sun during sleep -- to regenerate the life energy used up 
> during waking 
> > hours.
> > 
> > As I see it, all of that is easily explained, scientifically, by 
> analogy and 
> > correspondence -- from the standpoint of the ABC field's initial 
> radiation, 
> > fractal involution and subsequent evolution -- based on the 
second 
> fundamental 
> > principle of cyclic (harmonic) laws of electrodynamics... That 
act 
> in 
> > conjunction with the (first principle) ineffable zero-point 
origin 
> of mother SPACE with 
> > its abstract motion or spinergy, and the (third principle) 
ultimate 
> purpose 
> > of evolution, supported by reincarnation and karma.
> > 
> > So, maybe the bees are really our saviors -- both in the 
beginning 
> and ending 
> > of our lives on Earth. 
> > 
> > Sounds pretty reasonable to me, and perfectly in accord with the 
> theosophical 
> > teachings.
> > 
> > What do you think?
> > 
> > Len
> > P.S. And that doesn't let me off the hook either... Since back in 
> the early 
> > seventies, I was entrapreneurially working on starting a 
worldwide 
> cellphone 
> > empowered communication network. Was it my good karma to have 
> failed in all 
> > my previous enterprises leading to that one -- which also never 
> could be 
> > consummated due to my lack of sufficient personal wealth? 
Although, 
> there were 
> > plenty of other such electronic business startups that made it 
all 
> the way to 
> > the present morass of bee extermination, and ultimately, a goodly 
> portion of the 
> > human race... If that really is the cause, and not equally greed-
> driven, 
> > worldwide biochemical dispersion, global warming, etc. Either 
> way... Same 
> > difference. We did it to ourselves. And, by now, I think it's 
much 
> too late in 
> > the game to reverse any of it. Somehow, however, it makes me 
happy 
> to have 
> > been a technological business failure. </:-)~
> > 
> > In a message dated 5/2/07 10:02:51 AM, rpera@ writes:
> > 
> > > 
> > > Well,
> > > Â 
> > > Blavatsky said that only bees, ants and rice made it to Earth 
> from the 
> > > Moon. I could never wrap my head around that â??from the 
Moonâ?? 
> stuff, but I have 
> > > always acknowledged another import of her statement: that bees 
> are ESSENTIAL 
> > > to life on this planet.
> > > Â 
> > > The web of life is SO fragile. We got along without cell-
phones 
> for long 
> > > enough after carsâ?¦ dâ??ya think we could give them up to save 
> life as we know 
> > > it? (Then again, perhaps it is that very thing, â??life as we 
> know itâ?? that 
> > > should not be savedâ?¦) Either way, according to Einstein (one 
of 
> your mentors) we
> > > â??ve only got a few years leftâ?¦ Who wouldâ??a thunk it would 
> happen this way? 
> > > Oh, Iâ??m sure a few people did. 
> > > Â 
> > > And there is a certain radical beauty about it: no â??terrorist 
> threatâ??, not 
> > > some â??foreign dictatorâ??, no individual â??evil manâ??, but 
> just us â?" every one 
> > > of us phone-carrying humans is to blame â?" innocently, and yet 
> collectively. 
> > > Weâ??ve â??technologicizedâ?? ourselves into oblivion. Thatâ??s 
> been the 
> > > overriding â??terror visionâ?? all along hasnâ??t it, that 
weâ??d 
> do ourselves in? Hey, we 
> > > were right! I mean wrong� I mean right about being wrong. 
> Wrong-headed, 
> > > that is. Irresponsible, un-steward-like, rushing to permeate 
> the planet with 
> > > deadly, invisible, odorless micro-waves without first testing 
ALL 
> of the 
> > > possible fall-out. 
> > > Â 
> > > Why?
> > > Â 
> > > Greed first, then convenience. Greed on the part of mega-corps 
> who saw how 
> > > marketing cell-phones to everyone and their sister would yield 
> unprecedented 
> > > profit, and our notion of convenience: never having to stop to 
> make a phone 
> > > call, and the seduction of the self-importance that luxury 
> engenders. 
> > > Â 
> > > What a price to pay for it!
> > > Â 
> > > Oh well. Itâ??ll be interesting to see just how selfish humans 
> are when, in 
> > > a very short amount of time weâ??re all squarely faced with 
> letting go of 
> > > something we considered â??Progressâ?? but is in the end the 
> opposite!
> > > Â 
> > > Its been a fun ride (sorta-kinda),
> > > Radames Pera
> > > Â 
> > > Â 
> > > 
> > > Â 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: LeonMaurer@ [mailto:LeonMaurer@]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 9:47 PM
> > > To: undisclosed-recipients:
> > > Subject: Are mobile phones wiping out our bees?
> > > Â 
> > > The Independent newspaper (London), 15 April 2007.
> > > Are mobile phones wiping out our bees?
> > > 
> > > Scientists claim radiation from handsets are to blame for 
> mysterious 'colony 
> > > collapse' of bees
> > > 
> > > By Geoffrey Lean and Harriet Shawcross
> > > 
> > > It seems like the plot of a particularly far-fetched horror 
film. 
> But some 
> > > scientists suggest that our love of the mobile phone could 
cause 
> massive food 
> > > shortages, as the world's harvests fail.
> > > 
> > > They are putting forward the theory that radiation given off by 
> mobile 
> > > phones and other hi-tech gadgets is a possible answer to one of 
> the more bizarre 
> > > mysteries ever to happen in the natural world - the abrupt 
> disappearance of 
> > > the bees that pollinate crops. Late last week, some bee-keepers 
> claimed that 
> > > the phenomenon - which started in the US, then spread to 
> continental Europe - 
> > > was beginning to hit Britain as well.
> > > 
> > > The theory is that radiation from mobile phones interferes with 
> bees' 
> > > navigation systems [cf. the honeybee 'waggle' dance in the 
> psychophysical 
> > > sixth-dimension], preventing the famously homeloving species 
from 
> finding their way 
> > > back to their hives. Improbable as it may seem, there is now 
> evidence to back 
> > > this up.
> > > 
> > > Colony Collapse Disorder (CCD) occurs when a hive's inhabitants 
> suddenly 
> > > disappear, leaving only queens, eggs and a few immature 
workers, 
> like so many 
> > > apian Mary Celestes. The vanished bees are never found, but 
> thought to die 
> > > singly far from home. The parasites, wildlife and other bees 
that 
> normally raid 
> > > the honey and pollen left behind when a colony dies, refuse to 
go 
> anywhere 
> > > near the abandoned hives.
> > > 
> > > The alarm was first sounded last autumn, but has now hit half 
of 
> all 
> > > American states. The West Coast is thought to have lost 60 per 
> cent of its 
> > > commercial bee population, with 70 per cent missing on the East 
> Coast.
> > > 
> > > CCD has since spread to Germany, Switzerland, Spain, Portugal, 
> Italy and 
> > > Greece. And last week John Chapple, one of London's biggest bee-
> keepers, 
> > > announced that 23 of his 40 hives have been abruptly abandoned.
> > > 
> > > Other apiarists have recorded losses in Scotland, Wales and 
north-
> west 
> > > England, but the Department of the Environment, Food and Rural 
> Affairs insisted: 
> > > "There is absolutely no evidence of CCD in the UK."
> > > 
> > > The implications of the spread are alarming. Most of the 
world's 
> crops 
> > > depend on pollination by bees. Albert Einstein once said that 
if 
> the bees 
> > > disappeared, "man would have only four years of life left".
> > > 
> > > No one knows why it is happening. Theories involving mites, 
> pesticides, 
> > > global warming and GM crops have been proposed, but all have 
> drawbacks.
> > > 
> > > German research has long shown that bees' behaviour changes 
near 
> power 
> > > lines.
> > > 
> > > Now a limited study at Landau University has found that bees 
> refuse to 
> > > return to their hives when mobile phones are placed nearby. Dr 
> Jochen Kuhn, who 
> > > carried it out, said this could provide a "hint" to a possible 
> cause.
> > > 
> > > Dr George Carlo, who headed a massive study by the US 
government 
> and mobile 
> > > phone industry of hazards from mobiles in the Nineties, 
said: "I 
> am convinced 
> > > the possibility is real."
> > > 
> > > The case against handsets
> > > 
> > > Evidence of dangers to people from mobile phones is increasing. 
> But proof is 
> > > still lacking, largely because many of the biggest perils, such 
> as cancer, 
> > > take decades to show up.
> > > 
> > > Most research on cancer has so far proved inconclusive. But an 
> official 
> > > Finnish study found that people who used the phones for more 
than 
> 10 years were 
> > > 40 per cent more likely to get a brain tumour on the same side 
as 
> they held 
> > > the handset. [BEB: from memory, there are more handsets per 
> capita in Finland 
> > > than anywhere in the world.]
> > > 
> > > Equally alarming, blue-chip Swedish research revealed that 
> radiation from 
> > > mobile phones killed off brain cells, suggesting that today's 
> teenagers could 
> > > go senile in the prime of their lives. [BEB: I thought they 
> already were.]
> > > 
> > > Studies in India and the US have raised the possibility that 
men 
> who use 
> > > mobile phones heavily have reduced sperm counts. And, more 
> prosaically, doctors 
> > > have identified the condition of "text thumb", a form of RSI 
from 
> constant 
> > > texting.
> > > 
> > > Professor Sir William Stewart, who has headed two official 
> inquiries, warned 
> > > that children under eight should not use mobiles and made a 
> series of safety 
> > > recommendations, largely ignored by ministers.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > **************************************
> > > See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
> > > 
> > 
> > **************************************
> > See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ---------------------------------
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> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> 
> 
> 
>          
> 
>        
> ---------------------------------
> Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
>  Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>