Theos-Talk Archives (March 2007 Message tt00166)

Thanks Anton, I know that the ES is a point of contention for some 
within the TS.

I personally have not felt that the problems in the TS come 
specifically from the ES.
However there is I am sure much I don't know about it.

I'll try and briefly explain where I feel some of the conflicts come 
from, leaving aside the Leadbeater issue.

One of the problems I think that continues to play itself is that 
when some new people join the society they feel it is a kind of 
platform for anything and everything.

When the TS doesn't live up to their expectations of what they think 
it should be they can cause quite a bit of turbulence within the 
branch especially if they have joined with a preexisting agenda, like 
promoting some particular hobbyhorse they may be on at the time.

Then you get those who have been involved with the society for some 
years, read a lot of the traditional literature of the society?.they 
may appear to newcomers as being stuck in the past or not 
progressive. 

On the one side there maybe what seems to be a force of expansiveness 
and on the other traditionalism.

Expansiveness and traditionalism have this constant grappling with 
each other.

I would suggest both have a place, however both need to use wisdom, 
otherwise what you get is either lack of direction and purpose on the 
one hand or stagnation and mindless rigidity on the other.

Sometimes we need to drop some aspects that may no longer be 
appropriate.

For example in our branch the speaker used to stand on a stage 
towering above the audience and the president used to sit in a big 
chair on the stage like a king on a throne.

This thankfully was changed so that the president sat with everyone 
else and the speaker stood on the level with rest of the audience.

This was a break from the old hierarchical mindset of superiority and 
a movement towards equality and brotherhood at least in symbolic 
terms as to how the lodge was setup.

Also the invocation was changed to a more gender sensitive and 
inclusive form, once again a symbol of inclusiveness and equality.

The other side of the coin is when people want to overturn everything 
simply because its old.

When we are at a theosophical society set up to study the ANCIENT 
Wisdom this could be problematic however.

Theosophy does speak of a spiritual path although I know Krishnamurti 
spoke very eloquently about moving beyond rigid and superstitious 
ideas about it.
Just a few thoughts 


Cheers

Perry


--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Anton Rozman" <anton_rozman@...> 
wrote:
>
> Hi Perry,
> 
> >if you don't mind sharing with us here what do you think was the 
> catalyst for your being "silently expelled"?<
> 
> Well, maybe the shortest and simplest way to explain this is what 
> Bruce recently described as the "direct conflict of interest in 
> having an E.S. as part of any Theosophical Society".  Although the 
> E.S. was right from the beginning declared to be apart from the 
> Society the fact is, in my opinion, that it was not only part of 
the 
> Society but the major center of power within the Society which was 
> and still is to a large extent actually determining its policy 
(most 
> probably the situation in different national societies differs a 
> lot). So, it is a conflict between the inner autocratic and the 
outer 
> democratic structure of the Society. 
> 
> In my view the creation of the E.S. was an attempt to organize the 
> spiritual path what is impossible and what Krishnamurti tried to 
> explain in his speech "Truth is a Pathless Land".  So, it became to 
> play an ambiguous role within the Society, at one point dividing it 
> (it seems that all major problems and splits within the Society 
> originated in the E.S.), on the other unifying it (after the crisis 
> produced). It was most probably a historical necessity in largely 
> divided world, but in case of positive globalization it is, in my 
> opinion, clog for the expansion of democracy and freedom.
> 
> Warmest regards,
> Anton
> 
> 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "plcoles1" <plcoles1@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello Anton,
> > Stephen Hassan's material is very good and well worth looking at.
> > 
> > You wrote :
> > 
> > "I too went through the experience of being silently expelled 
from 
> the
> > Theosophical Society because of being critical towards the policy 
of
> > local leaders.
> > And the most painful thing in such cases is that one is to a 
large 
> > extent prevented to work for theosophy - what is almost a crime."
> > 
> > I'd say it is a crime, I am very sorry to hear that Anton, if you 
> > don't mind sharing with us here what do you think was the 
catalyst 
> > for your being "silently expelled"?
> > 
> > I agree with you that the internet has opened up new 
opportunities 
> > and ways of sharing theosophy.
> > 
> > Also I agree that we need to transcend the "status of victim" and 
> > feeling disempowered by no longer belonging or being involved in 
a 
> > group, as if the group overly dysfunctional in is an empowerment 
to 
> > be out of it.
> > 
> > What needs to be determined is can change be made from within or 
is 
> > the dysfunction so ingrained that nothing is ever likely to 
change, 
> > however we can only determine this for ourselves which is a 
> personal 
> > journey that may take some time to try and determine.
> > 
> > Also someone who challenges something (whether it is a mindset a 
> > teaching or an organization?) is not necessarily acting from a 
> victim 
> > mentality, although this may in some cases be what's going on, 
here 
> > also the individual needs to questions their own motives and what 
> > psychological baggage they may be carrying.
> > 
> > 
> > Regards
> > 
> > Perry
>