Theos-Talk Archives (December 2006 Message tt00712)

Friends,

The text by Gregory Tillett  which Daniel Caldwell quotes below plainly shows that Dr. Tillett has never had the patience to visit the ULT in Los Angeles or to study its publications, so as to build a dialogue and therefore get to know things.

As to what Caldwell asks with regard to Crosbie, well, it is well known that Crosbie made no "special claims",  and more: the ULT is based on  common sense and on the absence of claims. That was the ULT's special  'landmark' by contrast with what was going on in the movement.

The ULT was among the first theosophical groups  to put things in a more sober level, with a higher level of realism, after HPB and Judge.  

Common sense helped. 

Carlos. 


 



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Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Cópia:

Data:Sun, 17 Dec 2006 15:34:02 -0000

Assunto:Theos-World Was Robert Crosbie Acting UNDER THE DIRECTION of a Master??

> Was Robert Crosbie Acting 
> UNDER THE DIRECTION of a Master??
> -------------------------------------------------------
> 
> In 1887, H.P. Blavatsky wrote to Countess Constance Wachtmeister the
> following:
> 
> "After a long conversation with Master....either I have to return to
> India to die . . . or I have to form ... a nucleus of true
> Theosophists, a school of my own ... with as many mystics as I can
> get to teach them...."
> 
> Later in Sept. 1888 in a letter to John Ransom Bridge, HPB wrote:
> 
> "...I am organizing...a special centre ... of exclusively occult
> students, willing to accept...the teachings of which I am THE CHANNEL
> and which I cannot impart except to pledged members...." caps
> 
> In the "Preliminary Memorandum" issued in Dec. 1888, one finds the
> following:
> 
> "The real Head of the Esoteric Section is a Master, of whom H.P.
> Blavatsky is the mouthpiece for this Section. He is one of those
> Adepts referred to in theosophical literature, and concerned in the
> formation of the Theosophical Society. It is through H.P. Blavatsky
> that each member of this section will be brought more closely than
> hitherto under His influence and care if found worthy of it."
> Quoted from: http://www.katinkahesselink.net/esinstr.htm#prelim1
> 
> From the above, one sees that H.P. Blavatsky formed the Esoteric
> Section AT THE DIRECTION of the Master. And the Master was the REAL
> Head of the Section and H.P. Blavatsky was the MOUTHPIECE of this
> Master for the Section.
> 
> Now consider what the historian Gregory Tillett has written about
> Robert Crosbie and the Dzyan Esoteric School:
> 
> "Within the ULT a separate ES, claiming continuity with that of HPB,
> was established in 1909 with the title 'Dzyan Esoteric School', which
> it claimed was the proper title of the Second [Esoteric] Section of
> the Theosophical Society."
> 
> Dr. Tillett also wrote:
> 
> "The first DES group was established in Los Angeles by Robert Crosbie
> in November 1909...."
> 
> Quoted from:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/36730
> 
> Notice that Dr. Tillett writes that the DES claimed CONTINUITY with
> the ES of HPB.
> 
> Now ponder this:
> 
> If H.P. Blavatsky formed the Esoteric Section in 1888 UNDER THE
> DIRECTION of her Master, then under WHOSE DIRECTION did Robert
> Crosbie form in 1909 the Dzyan Esoteric School?
> 
> And was there a Master who was actually the real Head of the Dzyan
> Esoteric School?
> 
> And if H.P. Blavatsky was the MOUTHPIECE of her Master for the
> Esoteric Section, was Robert Crosbie the "mouthpiece" of a Master for
> the Dzyan Esoteric School?
> 
> These questions seem very relevant and appropriate to ask in light of
> what H.P. Blavatsky wrote and especially since Robert Crosbie himself
> wrote:
> 
> "If, then, the true Theosophical Movement, and THE TRUE CHELAS of the
> School of the Masters are NOT to be found among those [persons, for
> example, Mrs. Besant and Mrs. Tingley] who have lost the point of
> contact with the Masters, while yet loudly proclaiming themselves
> Initiates and Outer and Inner Heads of this, that, and the other
> theosophical society and esoteric section, WHERE MAY THEY [ ... THE
> TRUE CHELAS ...] BE DISCERNED? . . ." Theosophy, March 1915. caps
> added.
> 
> ". . . The various theosophical societies and esoteric sections OF
> THE DAY are in no sense representative of the School of the Masters
> or the Theosophical Movement. . . The Anciently universal Wisdom-
> Religion, the School of the Masters and the Theosophical Movement are
> in unbroken continuity of existence to-day as always. . . ."
> 
> "NOW, as always, they have THEIR REPRESENTATIVES AND AGENTS AMONG
> MEN, who cannot be found out by any but those who have earned the
> right to know them. . . ." Theosophy, February 1915. caps added.
> 
> Since Crosbie founded this secret Dzyan Esoteric School, was he
> himself a "true chela", a "representative" and "agent" of the
> Masters among men?
> 
> Especially since he had in so many words stated that Mrs. Besant,
> Mrs. Tingley, etc had "lost the point of contact with the Masters".
> 
> So was he NOW "the point of contact with the Masters"?
> 
> Also keep in mind that at his death, THEOSOPHY magazine proclaimed in
> no uncertain terms:
> 
> "Robert Crosbie preserved unbroken the link of the Second [Esoteric]
> Section of the Theosophical Movement from the passing of Mr. Judge in
> 1896, and in 1907 - just eleven years later - made that link once
> more Four Square amongst men. In the year 1909 the Third Section was
> restored by the formation of the United Lodge of Theosophists ...."
> 
> "...There is always one Witness on the scene. After the death of Mr.
> Judge, Robert Crosbie kept the link unbroken." Theosophy magazine,
> August, 1919.
> 
> Crosbie believed Judge was the agent and representative of the
> Masters when he was still alive. So if indeed Crosbie kept the
> [esoteric?] link unbroken after Mr. Judge's death, was Crosbie
> the "one Witness"? And what exactly does that term mean?
> 
> one Witness = true Chela = Representative = Agent of the Masters ????
> 
> No doubt, more relevant documents will be coming available which will 
> throw light on these various issues.
> 
> Daniel
> http://hpb.cc
> 


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