Re: Theos-World To Carl on the Movement
Nov 30, 2006 04:41 PM
by Cass Silva
Carlos
Are you aware that your tone comes across as arrogance par excellence!
Cass
carlosaveline <carlosaveline@terra.com.br> wrote: Carl,
I see a pattern in you that consists in criticizing the ULT.
After you defended (if I saw it right) ritualism and ritualistic groups which seem to promote dire kundalini experiences , that could be hardly surprising.
Tell me if I misunderstood your position. I would not like to be unfair in that.
Perhaps you would like to specialize yourself in criticizing the ULT. Feel free to do that. The followers of "Bishop" Wedgwood and "Bishop" Leadbeater might be happy with you -- no problem.
Yet -- who preserved the teachings of HPB and Judge, along with Pasadena TS, Point Loma groups, Edmonton Theosophical Society? The ULT did, along with them, and with many an Adyar student; and with support, in most important instances, from Adyar leaders.
In the second half of the 20th century, the HPB's Collected Writings, the books by G. Barborka and Sven Eek are among the many major examples of this cooperation between Adyar and other theosophical groups. This was a major historical fact which I do not forget.
In the first part of 20th century, however, the ULT, the Pasadena TS and Point Loma groups played a key role in preserving the teachings and their Spirit. As they do now. And I don't forget that either.
No ritualistic organization did that. It was a task for Theosophists, regardless of their organizations. And it was well done.
Regards, Carlos.
De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Cópia:
Data:Thu, 30 Nov 2006 10:46:16 -0000
Assunto:Theos-World Re: How We See The Movement
> Carlos,
>
> My sources are not outdated, hence one still can find this in the
> various ULT-web pages, and the two so called historical books "The
> Theosophical Movement 1875-25" is still holed as the truth by the
> ULT-people, and the second one "1875-1950" is still sold buy the TC
> and several ULT lodges. And I heard this kind of ideas in person,
> as late as 2004 from leading ULT-people.
>
> "The Judge Case" has I read, and it is lying next to me right now
> when I'm writing this. And "these problems", as you write, are the
> problems of ULT, and their (or should I say yours) fake view on the
> history of the modern Theosophical Movement.
>
> You wrote:
> "The basic fact is that the common Teaching which unites all groups
> of HPB/Masters students is immensely greater, wider and more
> luminous, as a factor, than those issues in which these groups
> think differently.'
> and
> "We all have a vast field in common, from G. Farthing readers and
> many other
> Adyar members, to the Pasadena TS, the ULT, the Edmonton
> Theosophical Society,
> the Point Loma Groups, and distinguished theosophists as Richard
> Robb, or José
> Ramón Sordo's excellent "Fundación Blavatsky" in Mexico, etc., and
> so on."
>
> Carlos, this is your opinion, and I can guarantee you that if you go
> to the ULT in LA, or else were (especially in the US, in Europe the
> ULT is a little bit more moderate); this is not the opinion there.
>
> And please answerer my questions, and if you don't wont to for some
> reason, tell me way.
>
> Carl
>
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "carlosaveline"
> wrote:
> >
> > Carl,
> >
> > Thanks for your honest posting.
> >
> > You ask:
> >
> > "But then tell me, Carlos. Why is the ULT so negative about
> Hargrove?
> > Hence Pasadena and ULT do not agree a bit about what happened
> > between 1905 and 1909, it's not easy to find out the truth."
> >
> > I say:
> >
> > Your sources might be outdated. And these questions are side-
> issues of scarce real importance now for the movement as a whole.
> >
> > On the other hand, I guess you will see a balanced, thoughtful and
> insightful approach to these problems in Ernest Pelletier's
> book "THE JUDGE CASE". You really should read this book, which
> contains and constitutes a library of information.
> >
> > Pelletier, a Canadian author who is with the Edmonton Theosophical
> Society, is, I guess, very sympathetic towards Hargrove. You can
> see that by yourself. Yet his views are very serene and balanced,
> and the Edmonton Theosophical Society has, to say the least, lots of
> things in common with the ULT, and many a mutual help mechanism
> with ULT associates.
> >
> > Except for one or two people interested in manipulating and
> exaggerating past differences and past unfortunate events, you will
> not find many HPB students interested in denying one central and
> basic fact.
> >
> > The basic fact is that the common Teaching which unites all
> groups of HPB/Masters students is immensely greater, wider and more
> luminous, as a factor, than those issues in which these groups
> think differently.
> >
> > Only the differences between HPB/Masters students and Leadbeater's
> false clairvoyance and ritualism (which are at psychiatrically
> linked to CWL's pedophily and to his self-importance "initiate"
> delusions) -- only these differences are in fact irreconcilable.
> >
> > I hope you can see that.
> >
> > We all have a vast field in common, from G. Farthing readers and
> many other Adyar members, to the Pasadena TS, the ULT, the Edmonton
> Theosophical Society, the Point Loma Groups, and distinguished
> theosophists as Richard Robb, or José Ramón Sordo's
> excellent "Fundación Blavatsky" in Mexico, etc., and so on.
> >
> > That is my sincere answer to your question.
> >
> > Regards, Carlos.
> >
> >
> > De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Cópia:
> >
> > Data:Tue, 28 Nov 2006 14:31:28 -0000
> >
> > Assunto:[Spam] Theos-World Re: The Birth of the ULT
> >
> > > Carlos,
> > >
> > > I don't know how wrote it ether, but my question was if there is
> any
> > > thru in it. But maybe there is a way to find out. To look in The
> > > Theosophical Quaternaly for this years.
> > > But then tell me, Carlos. Way is the ULT so negative about
> Hargrove?
> > > Hence Pasadena and ULT do not agree a bit about what happened
> > > between 1905 and 1909, it's not easy to find out the truth.
> > >
> > > You wrote:
> > > "Anyway, that which unites Hargrove's students and Crosbie's ,
> and
> > > Purucker's,
> > > and Point Loma's, and Pasadena students is far more important,
> these
> > > days, that
> > > that which is different in them.
> > >
> > > All of them recognize HPB/Masters as their source, and as time
> > > passes the common
> > > "Ocean of Theosophy" will unite them all among them, and also to
> > > Adyar TS
> > > students of classical Theosophy."
> > >
> > > I support you there, but way is this not the opinion of ULT?
> > >
> > > I have Tenbroeck's text, but haven't read it for many years. And
> how
> > > do know this is correct anyway?
> > >
> > > Carl
> > >
> > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "carlosaveline"
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Carl,
> > > >
> > > > I don't know who writes for "Wikipedia" on this issue and
> takes
> > > this illusory vision. Do you know?
> > > >
> > > > You have a correct version on the birth of the ULT from Dallas
> > > Tenbroeck's
> > > > text "Biographical Notes on Robert Crosbie". Let me know if
> you
> > > don't have it.
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, that which unites Hargrove's students and Crosbie's ,
> and
> > > Purucker's, and Point Loma's, and Pasadena students is far more
> > > important, these days, that that which is different in them.
> > > >
> > > > All of them recognize HPB/Masters as their source, and as time
> > > passes the common "Ocean of Theosophy" will unite them all among
> > > them, and also to Adyar TS students of classical Theosophy.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Regards, Carlos.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > >
> > > > Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > >
> > > > Cópia:
> > > >
> > > > Data:Tue, 28 Nov 2006 04:43:07 -0000
> > > >
> > > > Assunto:Theos-World The origin of ULT?
> > > >
> > > > > The origin of ULT?
> > > > >
> > > > > Yesterday I fund this on Wikipedia:
> > > > >
> > > > > "In 1906 or 1907 the Theosophical Society in America
> (Hargrove)
> > > gave
> > > > > Robert Crosbie a deed of foundation to found a lodge in Los
> > > Angeles.
> > > > > Hargrove can thus be seen as an obstetrician to the United
> Lodge
> > > of
> > > > > Theosophists."
> > > > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
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