Theos-Talk Archives (November 2006 Message tt01370)

Carlos,

My sources are not outdated, hence one still can find this in the 
various ULT-web pages, and the two so called historical books "The 
Theosophical Movement 1875-25" is still holed as the truth by the 
ULT-people, and the second one "1875-1950" is still sold buy the TC 
and several ULT lodges.  And I heard this kind of ideas in person, 
as late as 2004 from leading ULT-people.

"The Judge Case" has I read, and it is lying next to me right now 
when I'm writing this. And "these problems", as you write, are the 
problems of ULT, and their (or should I say yours) fake view on the 
history of the modern Theosophical Movement.

You wrote:
"The basic fact is that  the common Teaching which unites all groups 
of HPB/Masters students is immensely greater, wider and more 
luminous, as a factor,  than those issues in which these groups 
think differently.'
and
"We all have a vast field in common, from G. Farthing readers and 
many other
Adyar members, to the Pasadena TS, the ULT, the Edmonton 
Theosophical Society,
the Point Loma Groups, and distinguished theosophists as Richard 
Robb, or José
Ramón Sordo's excellent "Fundación Blavatsky" in Mexico, etc., and 
so on."

Carlos, this is your opinion, and I can guarantee you that if you go 
to the ULT in LA, or else were (especially in the US, in Europe the 
ULT is a little bit more moderate); this is not the opinion there. 

And please answerer my questions, and if you don't wont to for some 
reason, tell me way. 

Carl

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "carlosaveline" 
<carlosaveline@...> wrote:
>
> Carl,
> 
> Thanks for your honest posting.
> 
> You ask: 
> 
> "But then tell me, Carlos. Why is the ULT so negative about 
Hargrove?
> Hence Pasadena and ULT do not agree a bit about what happened 
> between 1905 and 1909, it's not easy to find out the truth."
> 
> I say:
> 
> Your sources might be outdated. And these questions are side-
issues of scarce real importance now for the movement as a whole. 
> 
> On the other hand, I guess you will see a balanced, thoughtful and 
insightful approach to these problems in Ernest Pelletier's 
book "THE JUDGE CASE". You really should read this book,  which 
contains and constitutes a library of information.
> 
> Pelletier, a Canadian author who is with the Edmonton Theosophical 
Society,  is, I guess, very sympathetic towards Hargrove. You can 
see that by yourself.  Yet his views are very serene and balanced, 
and the Edmonton Theosophical Society has, to say the least, lots of 
things in common with the ULT,  and many a mutual help mechanism 
with ULT associates.   
> 
> Except for one or two people interested in manipulating and 
exaggerating past differences and past unfortunate events, you will 
not find many HPB students interested in denying one central and 
basic fact. 
> 
> The basic fact is that  the common Teaching which unites all 
groups of HPB/Masters students is immensely greater, wider and more 
luminous, as a factor,  than those issues in which these groups 
think differently.
> 
> Only the differences between HPB/Masters students and Leadbeater's 
false clairvoyance and ritualism (which are at psychiatrically 
linked to CWL's  pedophily and to his self-importance "initiate" 
delusions) -- only  these differences are in fact irreconcilable.  
> 
> I hope you can see that.  
> 
> We all have a vast field in common, from G. Farthing readers and 
many other Adyar members,  to the Pasadena TS, the ULT, the Edmonton 
Theosophical Society, the Point Loma Groups, and distinguished 
theosophists as Richard Robb, or José Ramón Sordo's 
excellent "Fundación Blavatsky" in Mexico, etc., and so on. 
> 
> That is my sincere answer to your question. 
> 
> Regards,   Carlos. 
> 
> 
> De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> 
> Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> 
> Cópia:
> 
> Data:Tue, 28 Nov 2006 14:31:28 -0000
> 
> Assunto:[Spam] Theos-World Re: The Birth of the ULT
> 
> > Carlos,
> > 
> > I don't know how wrote it ether, but my question was if there is 
any 
> > thru in it. But maybe there is a way to find out. To look in The 
> > Theosophical Quaternaly for this years.
> > But then tell me, Carlos. Way is the ULT so negative about 
Hargrove?
> > Hence Pasadena and ULT do not agree a bit about what happened 
> > between 1905 and 1909, it's not easy to find out the truth.
> > 
> > You wrote:
> > "Anyway, that which unites Hargrove's students and Crosbie's , 
and 
> > Purucker's,
> > and Point Loma's, and Pasadena students is far more important, 
these 
> > days, that
> > that which is different in them.
> > 
> > All of them recognize HPB/Masters as their source, and as time 
> > passes the common
> > "Ocean of Theosophy" will unite them all among them, and also to 
> > Adyar TS
> > students of classical Theosophy."
> > 
> > I support you there, but way is this not the opinion of ULT?
> > 
> > I have Tenbroeck's text, but haven't read it for many years. And 
how 
> > do know this is correct anyway?
> > 
> > Carl
> > 
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "carlosaveline" 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Carl,
> > > 
> > > I don't know who writes for "Wikipedia" on this issue and 
takes 
> > this illusory vision. Do you know? 
> > > 
> > > You have a correct version on the birth of the ULT from Dallas 
> > Tenbroeck's
> > > text "Biographical Notes on Robert Crosbie". Let me know if 
you 
> > don't have it. 
> > > 
> > > Anyway, that which unites Hargrove's students and Crosbie's , 
and 
> > Purucker's, and Point Loma's, and Pasadena students is far more 
> > important, these days, that that which is different in them. 
> > > 
> > > All of them recognize HPB/Masters as their source, and as time 
> > passes the common "Ocean of Theosophy" will unite them all among 
> > them, and also to Adyar TS students of classical Theosophy. 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Regards, Carlos.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > 
> > > Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > 
> > > Cópia:
> > > 
> > > Data:Tue, 28 Nov 2006 04:43:07 -0000
> > > 
> > > Assunto:Theos-World The origin of ULT?
> > > 
> > > > The origin of ULT?
> > > > 
> > > > Yesterday I fund this on Wikipedia:
> > > > 
> > > > "In 1906 or 1907 the Theosophical Society in America 
(Hargrove) 
> > gave 
> > > > Robert Crosbie a deed of foundation to found a lodge in Los 
> > Angeles. 
> > > > Hargrove can thus be seen as an obstetrician to the United 
Lodge 
> > of 
> > > > Theosophists."
> > > > 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>