Theos-Talk Archives (November 2006 Message tt01276)

Carl,

You say: 

"I personally can't see any reason to believe that St. Germain was 
Blavatsky's contra part during the 18th century." 

You are free not to see that,  but both HPB and the ML suggested the idea, which is far from being originally mine. 

Mesmer and others (including Cagliostro) did not have the same degree of occult learning as HPB and St. Germain had.  Both had direct contact with the source, and for both "HOME" was -- in the Himalayas, not in Europe. 

Carlos. 

 
De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Cópia:

Data:Tue, 28 Nov 2006 03:59:31 -0000

Assunto:Theos-World The 18th century Messengers

> The 18th century Messengers
> 
> I personally can't see any reason to believe that St. Germain was 
> Blavatsky's contra part during the 18th century. More are pointing 
> at Dr. Franz Anton Mesmer, which had at his side as co-worker, St. 
> Germain (Mesmer's "Judge"), Cagliostro (Mesmer's "Olcott", the 
> organiser) and initially Chev. Casanova (similar to Crowley in many 
> ways, maybe a fallen lay chela). Both the memoirs of Mesmer and 
> Casanova are giving some interesting information on this subject, 
> and the biographical notes in trial protocol of Cagliostro's as well.
> 
> And there is nothing at al, that are pointing in the direction that 
> Prince Rakoczi and Count St. Germain was one and the same person. 
> 
> Who of al this 18th century occultists, which was (or are today) an 
> Adept, I do not dare to say, but some of them was defiantly Chelas 
> or Lay Chelas.
> 
> Carl
> 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "carlosaveline" 
> wrote:
> >
> > Konstantin,
> > 
> > Thanks.
> > 
> > It is consensus, see Clara Codd's book for example, that St. 
> Germain as 18th century incarnation was not a full Adept. 
> > 
> > Besides, it is a firm consensus and common knowledge that only 
> disciples, and never Adepts, mix with public and political/social 
> events in the way St. Germain (or Cagliostro) interfered.
> > 
> > The reason for that is that an Adept is outside short term human 
> karma and he is not willing to go against evolution and go back in 
> his path. 
> > 
> > This is also a key concept to understand the necessary Autonomy of 
> the Disciple. 
> > 
> > In the ML, Masters explain that if Disciples were not Autonomous 
> and Responsible for their own actions, the Karma would belong to 
> their Teachers, and not to them. 
> > 
> > Therefore St. Germain, who strongly interacted with political, 
> public and social issues, was not an Adept. 
> > 
> > The incarnation in which an Initiate will get the decisive 
> initiation needs to be a new one. Magnetical reasons included. 
> > 
> > Besides, the Leadbeaterian ritualistic fancies, ascribed to St. 
> Germain, clash in substance and content with the Masters' teachings, 
> while we know that the Teachings of different Masters never clash 
> except in wording. 
> > 
> > Finally, you can see that the large amount of wild 
> ritualisticfancies (including the ER) created by poor Leadbeater and 
> ascribed to "St. Germain" were no more than fancies, while an Adept 
> does not do that kind of thing. 
> > 
> > So, you see there is a mass of hints and evidences about that. 
> > 
> > Regards, Carlos. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > 
> > Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > 
> > Cópia:
> > 
> > Data:Sun, 26 Nov 2006 17:31:35 -0000
> > 
> > Assunto:Theos-World Re: St. Germain Not Leadbeaterian, At All
> > 
> > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "carlosaveline" 
> > > wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Rakoczi is a name which also corresponds to the same 
> incarnation as 
> > > "St. Germain".
> > > 
> > > As far I know, nor Leadbeater neither any other theosophical 
> author 
> > > who regards St. Germain an adept, didn't hold an opinion that he 
> died 
> > > in the end of 18th century.
> > > Leadbeater when wrote about 1911 meant certainly the same 
> incarnation.
> > > 
> > > From the other sources we can conclude that St. Germain was an 
> adept 
> > > already in 18th century, otherwise it would be hard to explain 
> how the 
> > > old ladies recognized in him a man whom they knew in their 
> youth, and 
> > > still looking young when they were already old.
> > > 
> > > So Leadbeater had to need to invent any new names and 
> incarnations.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
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