Theos-Talk Archives (November 2006 Message tt00813)

Christina,

Hi. 

As my written references say, I am working with the India/Adyar/TPH 1978 edition of "The Perfume". 

It is all there, the rascism, the contempt for black people, for indigenous people, the lack of basic information about the profound ethnic mixing which is the main characteristic in Brazil and in a great part of Latin America...

The pride in killing people with firearms...


Best regards,   Carlos. 





De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Cópia:

Data:Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:56:38 -0000

Assunto:[Spam] Theos-World Re: CWL AGAINST BLACK/INDIGENOUS PEOPLES

> -I have no quest book , but the original from TPH Adyar
> Other question:
> If we read the conqueror stories of that Red Indians,Spains and so 
> on who conquered South America,are they good civilized people?
> Also the whites are not always, the only thing I can say Leadbeater 
> better could not write is that the blank is the superior race.
> That is not at all.
> Christina
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "'Cuervo'" wrote:
> >
> > Carlos - Christina et al -
> > 
> > The publishing policy at Quest Books initiated by Helen Zahara 
> when 
> > she came around 1970 was to edit out all negative racial and 
> ethnic 
> > comments, especially in the writings of Leadbeater, though I think 
> > also in Jinarajadasa's introductory book on Theosophy. There are 
> > examples in most of CWL's writings, but it is difficult to find 
> the 
> > originals of some to compare with.
> > 
> > Ken
> > 
> > 
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "carlosaveline" 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Christina,
> > > 
> > > Please look at the pages 167 and 168 of your "The Perfume of 
> > Egypt", TPH 1978 edition, and you will find these quotations which 
> I 
> > comment below:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ooooooooo
> > > 
> > > Leadbeater says about "red indians": 
> > > 
> > > "Of these many tribes had adopted a kind of squalid 
> civilization, 
> > but many others were still savages untamed and untamable ? men who 
> > regarded work of any kind as the deepest degradation ? who hated 
> the 
> > white man with a traditional, unrelenting hatred, and (strange as 
> it 
> > may seen) more than reciprocated the boundless contempt of the 
> blue-
> > blooded hidalgo of Spain. It will be no doubt incomprehensible to 
> > many of us that a half-naked savage can entertain any other 
> feeling 
> > than envy for our superior civilization, however much he may 
> dislike 
> > us; but I can only say that the quite genuine and unaffected 
> feeling 
> > of the Red Indian towards the white man is pure and unmitigated 
> > contempt." 
> > > 
> > > But CWL proceeds (p. 168) to develop his unbrotherly view of 
> human 
> > beings: 
> > > 
> > > "Then came the negro race ? no inconsiderable portion of the 
> > populations, and chiefly in a state of slavery, though the 
> > Government was doing all in its power to remove that curse from 
> its 
> > territories; and last and worst came what were called the half-
> > breeds or half-castes ? a mixed race which seemed, as mixed races 
> > sometimes do, to combine all the worst qualities of both its 
> parent 
> > stocks. Indians, Spaniards, and Negro alike despised them; and 
> they 
> > in turn regarded all alike with a virulent hatred." 
> > > 
> > > We can see in these words some strong `pioneer elements' for the 
> > future ideologies of Nazism and Fascism, and ultimately for the 
> mass-
> > murder attemtps of "ethnic cleansing". Look at it again: 
> > > 
> > > " (...) and last and worst came what were called the half-breeds 
> > or half-castes ? a mixed race which seemed (...) to combine all 
> the 
> > worst qualities of both its parent stocks." 
> > > 
> > > This is Leadbeater. 
> > > 
> > > Brazil has been from the very beginning a miscigenation people 
> and 
> > indigenous people here never present resintence or hated the white 
> > people. Their culture was too primitive for that, say. We have 
> never 
> > had important racial tensions or hatred in Brazil, aas such, 
> though 
> > there was social violence. 
> > > 
> > > Miscigenation is part of the preparation for the next sub-race, 
> as 
> > HPB writes in the "Secret Doctrine". 
> > > 
> > > Regards, Carlos. 
> > > 
> > > De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > 
> > > Para:"theos-talk" theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > 
> > > Cópia:"carlosaveline" carlosaveline@
> > > 
> > > Data:Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:00:40 -0300
> > > 
> > > Assunto:[Spam] Theos-World CWL AGAINST BLACK AND INDIGENOUS 
> PEOPLES
> > > 
> > > > Dear Friends, 
> > > > 
> > > > This is about Bishop Leadbeater and his imaginary adventures 
> in 
> > South America. 
> > > > 
> > > > C. Jinarajadasa believed he was there with Leadbeater in a 
> > previous body, and that he was his biological younger brother, who 
> > was allegedly killed and 'rediscovered' by CWL in Ceylon. 
> > > > 
> > > > In fact, in a footnote to his autobiographical Postface in the 
> > book "The Seven Veils of Consciousness", C. Jinarajadasa states 
> that 
> > that the true story of his own "previous (and glorious) death in 
> > Brazil" is narrated in the chapter "Saved by a Ghost", of the 
> > book "The Perfume of Egypt" (2). 
> > > > 
> > > > C.J. believed everything CWL said, and he also writes in the 
> > note that the same old silver crucifix which is mentioned in that 
> > story was in his possession, as he wrote "The Seven Veils of 
> > Consciousness". 
> > > > 
> > > > As to Leadbeater, in the preface of his 'The Perfume of 
> Egypt", 
> > he makes a solemn statement: 
> > > > 
> > > > "The stories in this book happen to be true." 
> > > > 
> > > > Along "Saved By a Ghost", the longest story of the volume, 
> > Leadbeater proudly describes how he killed numerous black people 
> and 
> > indigenous people in South America during his youth. 
> > > > 
> > > > Of course, common sense says that the story is as illusory as 
> > the visits Leabeater made to physical plane civilizations in Mars 
> > and Mercury. 
> > > > 
> > > > But even if it were presented as a `short novel' pure and 
> > simple, and not as an autobiographical narration, the content of 
> the 
> > text reveals too much of racism and disrespect against black 
> people, 
> > indigenous people and their right to live. Leadbeater also uses 
> the 
> > term "race" not in its theosophical meaning, but in the 
> > nationalistic way, as if each country had its own 'race', 
> > anticipating what Adolf Hitler would do decades later. 
> > > > 
> > > > At p. 167 of the Adyar edition, one starts to read his 
> > description of Brazilian people: 
> > > > 
> > > > "First came the descendants of Spanish and Portuguese 
> > conquerors ? a haughty, indolent race; a race courtly and 
> > hospitable, by no means without its good qualities, but yet one 
> > whose strongest characteristic was an immeasurable contempt (or 
> the 
> > affectation of it) for all other races whatsoever". 
> > > > 
> > > > The amount of illusions-per-line is outstanding here. 
> > > > 
> > > > First, Spanish people were never `conquerors' in Brazil. The 
> > country was `discovered' and made a colony by Portugal. Second, 
> > Portuguese people are not a race; and they cannot be easily 
> > described as `indolent'. Third, Portuguese people generaly did not 
> > show `contempt' for other `races', and it is for this reason that 
> > miscigenation ? intermarriage ? was from the first the main 
> > anthropological characteristic of the emerging Brazilian nation. 
> > Portuguese people easily created strong personal links with black 
> > people and indigenous people. (Of course, colonization was also 
> > violent.)
> > > > 
> > > > In the next paragraph, "bishop" Leadbeater is even more 
> > surprising: 
> > > > 
> > > > "Next came red indians". 
> > > > 
> > > > Well, there are no `red indians' in Brazil, although the term 
> is 
> > very common in old North American Far West bang-bang stories, in 
> > which hundreds of "bad" Indians get typically killed by a few 
> white 
> > men usually presented as brave heros. 
> > > > 
> > > > Leadbeater says about "red indians": 
> > > > 
> > > > "Of these many tribes had adopted a kind of squalid 
> > civilization, but many others were still savages untamed and 
> > untamable ? men who regarded work of any kind as the deepest 
> > degradation ? who hated the white man with a traditional, 
> > unrelenting hatred, and (strange as it may seen) more than 
> > reciprocated the boundless contempt of the blue-blooded hidalgo of 
> > Spain. It will be no doubt incomprehensible to many of us that a 
> > half-naked savage can entertain any other feeling than envy for 
> our 
> > superior civilization, however much he may dislike us; but I can 
> > only say that the quite genuine and unaffected feeling of the Red 
> > Indian towards the white man is pure and unmitigated contempt." 
> > > > 
> > > > What are the problems in these few lines? First, again comes 
> the 
> > Spanish `hidalgo' (nobleman) apparently ruling Brazil, a country 
> > which was independent from Portugal (not Spain), since 1822, and 
> was 
> > never under any "Spanish' ruling class. Second, the `red Indian' 
> > again. Third, indigenous people and did not express hate against 
> > white people, and never actively resisted the domination of 
> European 
> > rulers in Brazil. These two paragraphs simply can't refer to any 
> > South American country. 
> > > > 
> > > > But CWL proceeds (p. 168) to develop his unbrotherly view of 
> > human beings: 
> > > > 
> > > > "Then came the negro race ? no inconsiderable portion of the 
> > populations, and chiefly in a state of slavery, though the 
> > Government was doing all in its power to remove that curse from 
> its 
> > territories; and last and worst came what were called the half-
> > breeds or half-castes ? a mixed race which seemed, as mixed races 
> > sometimes do, to combine all the worst qualities of both its 
> parent 
> > stocks. Indians, Spaniards, and Negro alike despised them; and 
> they 
> > in turn regarded all alike with a virulent hatred." 
> > > > 
> > > > We can see in these words some strong `pioneer elements' for 
> the 
> > future ideologies of Nazism and Fascism, and ultimately for the 
> mass-
> > murder attemtps of "ethnic cleansing". Look at it again: 
> > > > 
> > > > " (...) and last and worst came what were called the half-
> breeds 
> > or half-castes ? a mixed race which seemed (...) to combine all 
> the 
> > worst qualities of both its parent stocks." 
> > > > 
> > > > This is Leadbeater. 
> > > > 
> > > > But -- what about Theosophy? What does esoteric philosophy 
> > really say about the relations between rich and poor nations and 
> > among all different ethnical groups, with their varied kinds of 
> > colours in the skin? In the "Letters from the Masters", the famous 
> > letter known as coming from the "Great Master" says: 
> > > > 
> > > > "To achieve the proposed object, a greater, a wiser, and 
> > especially a more benevolent intermingling of the high and the 
> low, 
> > of the Alpha and the Omega of Society, was determined upon. The 
> > white race must be the first to stretch out the hand of fellowship 
> > to the dark nations, to call the poor despised `nigger' brother. 
> > This prospect may not smile to all, but he is no Theosophist who 
> > objects to his principle" (2) 
> > > > 
> > > > One can only conclude, then, that in writing that paragraph 
> > Leadbeater was "no theosophist". 
> > > > 
> > > > In fact, Leadbeater's vision of human beings as presented in 
> > that long story is not only ethically and culturally unacceptable. 
> > It is also legally criminal, for racism and stimulation of hatred 
> > among people of different skin-colours has been defined as crime 
> in 
> > Brazil a few years ago. 
> > > > 
> > > > One can understand why the Brazilian edition of "Saved By a 
> > Ghost" cannot be found in Brazilian bookshops any longer. Yet it 
> is 
> > still for sale at Adyar, it seems. 
> > > > 
> > > > ( In another posting, I should refer to Leadbeater's proudly 
> > alleged acts of violence leading to death, which, even if seen as 
> > fictional, are profoundly untheosophical. ) 
> > > > 
> > > > Best regards, Carlos. 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > NOTE:
> > > > 
> > > > (1) "The Perfume of Egypt", by C. W. Leadbeater, whose sixth 
> > edition (TPH Adyar, 265 pp.) is dated 1978. 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > (2) "Letters From the Masters of the Wisdom", compiled by C. 
> > Jinarajadasa, Adyar TPH, first series, Letter number one, known 
> > as `the Maha-Chohan Letter' or "the Great Master Letter'. 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
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> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
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> 
> 
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