Theos-Talk Archives (November 2006 Message tt00790)

Carlos I read the book many times and I scanned it for Anand to put 
it on his website.
If you read well pages 167/8/9/ and 170 you see who were the bad 
ones.
All are conquerors and murderes.RedIndians against half breeds and 
so on.
I don't know with what kind of eyes you read.
Also Leadbeater discribes a situation playing in the South of that 
country and he was not involved and had not shown any feeling of 
himself in it.
So it is very discutable to speak about him if he was Nazi or what 
kind of that.
The more I read about the idiot things people bring this man in bad 
light, the more I go to discover nothing is true;  all are false 
accuses.
One positive thing in this case is , now we go to read his real 
workand to see the worth of it.
Christina












--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "carlosaveline" 
<carlosaveline@...> wrote:
>
> Christina,
> 
> I see you did not read the book. 
> 
> Leadbeater's contempt for black people, for indigenous people and 
for what he calls "half-blood" people has been already shown by me, 
here today, whether you look at it or not. 
> 
> I quoted the pages, I wrote about that to Ms. Joy Mills, she 
confirmed my views in a personal letter which later went public in 
Brazil;  I sent the correspondence to Radha Burnier;  she avoided 
commenting the topic 
> but did not question my documentation of the facts. 
> 
> I have discussed this with many people, no one questioned my 
quotations. 
> 
> As to killing native people, I will bring more quotations, 
specifically on that, by tomorrow. 
> 
> Please accept the facts. 
> 
> Regards,  Carlos. 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> 
> Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> 
> Cópia:
> 
> Data:Mon, 13 Nov 2006 15:37:45 -0000
> 
> Assunto:[Spam] Theos-World real story of The perfume of Egypt.
> 
> > 
> > Carlos you give wrong statement of that book:
> > Now I have the book for my nose and readed back this story
> > 
> > -At first - Saved by the ghost - is not the longest story and it 
is 
> > not what you present of it.All the coloured people have fight 
with 
> > each other and they hatred whites and it plays in the time 
> > leadbeater was a young boy.Nothing of killing people by any 
white 
> > head.
> > Baron's room, at the camp of matinez and the flight and 
possiibly 
> > others are much longer stories.
> > In a meantime the whole book will be to read at 
www.Anandgholap.net
> > 
> > Christina
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "carlosaveline" 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Christina, 
> > > 
> > > Hi. 
> > > 
> > > You say: 
> > > 
> > > "This book only shows how karma is working. Nothing special 
about 
> > coloured people."
> > > 
> > > I say, please read below. 
> > > 
> > > oooooooo
> > > 
> > > 
> > > In a footnote to his autobiographical Postface in the 
book "The 
> > Seven
> > > Veils of Consciousness", C. Jinarajadasa states that that the 
true 
> > story of his
> > > own "previous (and glorious) death in Brazil" is narrated in 
the 
> > chapter "Saved by a Ghost", of the book "The Perfume of Egypt" 
(2).
> > > 
> > > C.J. believed everything CWL said, and he also writes in the 
note 
> > that the same old silver crucifix which is mentioned in that 
story 
> > was in his possession, as he wrote "The Seven Veils of 
> > Consciousness".
> > > 
> > > As to Leadbeater, in the preface of his 'The Perfume of 
Egypt", he 
> > makes a
> > > solemn statement:
> > > 
> > > "The stories in this book happen to be true."
> > > 
> > > Along "Saved By a Ghost", the longest story of the volume, 
> > Leadbeater proudly describes how he killed numerous black people 
and 
> > indigenous people in South America during his youth.
> > > 
> > > Of course, common sense says that the story is as illusory as 
the 
> > visits
> > > Leabeater made to physical plane civilizations in Mars and 
Mercury.
> > > 
> > > But even if it were presented as a `short novel' pure and 
simple, 
> > and not as an autobiographical narration, the content of the 
text 
> > reveals too much of racism and disrespect against black people, 
> > indigenous people and their right to live. Leadbeater also uses 
the 
> > term "race" not in its theosophical meaning, but in the 
> > nationalistic way, as if each country had its own 'race', 
> > anticipating what Adolf Hitler would do decades later.
> > > 
> > > At p. 167 of the Adyar edition, one starts to read his 
description 
> > of Brazilian
> > > people:
> > > 
> > > "First came the descendants of Spanish and Portuguese 
conquerors ? 
> > a haughty, indolent race; a race courtly and hospitable, by no 
means 
> > without its good qualities, but yet one whose strongest 
> > characteristic was an immeasurable contempt (or the affectation 
of 
> > it) for all other races whatsoever".
> > > 
> > > The amount of illusions-per-line is outstanding here.
> > > 
> > > First, Spanish people were never `conquerors' in Brazil. The 
> > country was
> > > `discovered' and made a colony by Portugal. Second, Portuguese 
> > people are not a race; and they cannot be easily described 
> > as `indolent'. Third, Portuguese people generaly did not 
> > show `contempt' for other `races', and it is for this reason 
that 
> > miscigenation ? intermarriage ? was from the first the main 
> > anthropological characteristic of the emerging Brazilian nation. 
> > Portuguese people easily created strong personal links with 
black 
> > people and indigenous people. (Of course, colonization was also 
> > violent.)
> > > 
> > > In the next paragraph, "bishop" Leadbeater is even more 
surprising:
> > > 
> > > "Next came red indians".
> > > 
> > > Well, there are no `red indians' in Brazil, although the term 
is 
> > very common in
> > > old North American Far West bang-bang stories, in which 
hundreds 
> > of "bad"
> > > Indians get typically killed by a few white men usually 
presented 
> > as brave
> > > heros.
> > > 
> > > Leadbeater says about "red indians":
> > > 
> > > "Of these many tribes had adopted a kind of squalid 
civilization, 
> > but many
> > > others were still savages untamed and untamable ? men who 
regarded 
> > work of any kind as the deepest degradation ? who hated the 
white 
> > man with a traditional, unrelenting hatred, and (strange as it 
may 
> > seen) more than reciprocated the boundless contempt of the blue-
> > blooded hidalgo of Spain. It will be no doubt incomprehensible 
to 
> > many of us that a half-naked savage can entertain any other 
feeling 
> > than envy for our superior civilization, however much he may 
dislike 
> > us; but I can only say that the quite genuine and unaffected 
feeling 
> > of the Red Indian towards the white man is pure and unmitigated 
> > contempt."
> > > 
> > > What are the problems in these few lines? First, again comes 
the 
> > Spanish
> > > `hidalgo' (nobleman) apparently ruling Brazil, a country which 
was 
> > independent from Portugal (not Spain), since 1822, and was never 
> > under any "Spanish' ruling class. Second, the `red Indian' 
again. 
> > Third, indigenous people and did not express hate against white 
> > people, and never actively resisted the domination of European 
> > rulers in Brazil. These two paragraphs simply can't refer to any 
> > South American country.
> > > 
> > > But CWL proceeds (p. 168) to develop his unbrotherly view of 
human 
> > beings:
> > > 
> > > "Then came the negro race ? no inconsiderable portion of the 
> > populations, and chiefly in a state of slavery, though the 
> > Government was doing all in its power to remove that curse from 
its 
> > territories; and last and worst came what were called the half-
> > breeds or half-castes ? a mixed race which seemed, as mixed 
races 
> > sometimes do, to combine all the worst qualities of both its 
parent 
> > stocks. Indians, Spaniards, and Negro alike despised them; and 
they 
> > in turn regarded all alike with a virulent hatred."
> > > 
> > > We can see in these words some strong `pioneer elements' for 
the 
> > future
> > > ideologies of Nazism and Fascism, and ultimately for the mass-
> > murder attemtps of "ethnic cleansing". Look at it again:
> > > 
> > > " (...) and last and worst came what were called the half-
breeds 
> > or half-castes
> > > ? a mixed race which seemed (...) to combine all the worst 
> > qualities of both its parent stocks."
> > > 
> > > This is Leadbeater.
> > > 
> > > But -- what about Theosophy? What does esoteric philosophy 
really 
> > say about the relations between rich and poor nations and among 
all 
> > different ethnical groups, with their varied kinds of colours in 
the 
> > skin? In the "Letters from the Masters", the famous letter known 
as 
> > coming from the "Great Master" says:
> > > 
> > > "To achieve the proposed object, a greater, a wiser, and 
> > especially a more
> > > benevolent intermingling of the high and the low, of the Alpha 
and 
> > the Omega of Society, was determined upon. The white race must 
be 
> > the first to stretch out the hand of fellowship to the dark 
nations, 
> > to call the poor despised `nigger' brother. This prospect may 
not 
> > smile to all, but he is no Theosophist who objects to his 
principle" 
> > (2)
> > > 
> > > One can only conclude, then, that in writing that paragraph 
> > Leadbeater was "no theosophist".
> > > 
> > > In fact, Leadbeater's vision of human beings as presented in 
that 
> > long story is not only ethically and culturally unacceptable. It 
is 
> > also legally criminal, for
> > > racism and stimulation of hatred among people of different 
skin-
> > colours has been defined as crime in Brazil a few years ago.
> > > 
> > > One can understand why the Brazilian edition of "Saved By a 
Ghost" 
> > cannot be found in Brazilian bookshops any longer. Yet it is 
still 
> > for sale at Adyar, it
> > > seems.
> > > 
> > > ( In another posting, I should refer to Leadbeater's proudly 
> > alleged acts of
> > > violence leading to death, which, even if seen as fictional, 
are 
> > profoundly
> > > untheosophical. )
> > > 
> > > Best regards, Carlos.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > NOTE:
> > > 
> > > (1) "The Perfume of Egypt", by C. W. Leadbeater, whose sixth 
> > edition (TPH Adyar, 265 pp.) is dated 1978.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > (2) "Letters From the Masters of the Wisdom", compiled by C. 
> > Jinarajadasa, Adyar TPH, first series, Letter number one, known 
> > as `the Maha-Chohan Letter' or "the Great Master Letter'.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > 
> > > Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > 
> > > Cópia:
> > > 
> > > Data:Sun, 12 Nov 2006 14:16:36 -0000
> > > 
> > > Assunto:Theos-World The perfume of egypt
> > > 
> > > > This book only shows how karma is working.
> > > > Nothing special about coloured people.
> > > > Christina
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > E-mail classificado pelo Identificador de Spam Inteligente 
Terra.
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> > 
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> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
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