Theos-Talk Archives (November 2006 Message tt00724)

Hi Don,
I think you may have misread Adelasie's email, I am under the impression that she is saying that as Jake sees homosexuality as repulsive, it may be his karma to experience homosexuality in order that he will learn the lesson of being isolated and ridiculed by a section of society?  
Cass

----- Original Message ----
From: Rodolfo Don <rrdon27@earthlink.net>
To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2006 2:01:53 AM
Subject: Re: Theos-World Sex Questions









  


    
            Hi Adelasie,



I did not break any rule of Universal Brotherhood when I responded to  

Jake's first message. It wasn't me who was denying the right to be a  

sexually accepted being to anyone or to any group. It was Jake. In my  

response to him I only quoted Theosophical principles, to prove to  

him that he was wrong.



I don't understand why you mention to me about bigotry and hatred.  

Look at my first response to him and tell me where did I break any  

rule against Universal Brotherhood. And then read Jake's message with  

the same judging eyes as you read mine.



Fraternally,



Rodolfo Don



On Nov 11, 2006, at 6:33 AM, adelasie wrote:



> Hi Rodolfo,

>

> It's useful to remember karma and reincarnation when we are

> expressing bigotry and hatred in a theosophical forum. According to

> the teachings, each entity incarnates in all conditions in order to

> learn all there is to learn. So we may expect, if we find some one or

> other of the human conditions to be personally repulsive, that we

> will one day find oursleves in that very condition. Wisdom is not

> based on separatism. It is based on the consciousness of unity.

> Acceptance is a good tool to cultivate in one's own consciousness.

>

> Adelasie

>

> .

>

> 



Adelasie: This is my answer to Jake's original message, below.



A common sense response to a Very Queer Opinion



It has been determined that homosexuals are born with the  

predisposition to that sexual orientation. I myself was born that  

way, and I remember when I was in kindergarten I knew what my  

preferences were. Being homophobic goes against Universal  

Brotherhood, just like denying to them every human right that  

heterosexuals enjoy. Pretend that homosexuals should hide their own  

nature goes against Truth that should be honored by every  

Theosophist. Truth in thought, action and truth to himself or herself.



And about the comment that homosexuals that don't rise above their  

own nature (?) have their own higher two principles paralized, I have  

to disappoint you because all my seven principles are functioning  

very well. I am laughing about your retrograde thinking. Look at the  

rest of the world and see all the changes that have taken place in  

just a few years. Only religion with its prejudices and bigotry is  

holding back more changes particularly in very religious countries  

like the Muslim countries, Poland and our own country, U.S.A.



Why do you mention that the Dalai Lama is against "oral sex" in your  

diatribe against gays? Do you mean that oral sex is not practiced by  

heterosexuals? You can't be serious!



Do you know what I think about your little piece of writing below. It  

is promoting hatred and intolerance in a Theosophical list.



Rodolfo Don



============ ========= ========= ========= =



On Oct 23, 2006, at 9:05 AM, Mark Jaqua wrote:

A Personal Opinion on a Very Queer Question



I've been wanting to write something on this

for a while, so think I will do so. It could be

called "esoteric," I think. So, if you aren't

"esoteric," don't worry about it.



Nobody writes about homosexuals in relation

to theosophy, because it is far too dangerous

to do so, Homosexuals being a very large

"vested interest." Does Theosophy have any

specific teachings in regard to them? No.

Nothing is said anywhere in the primary literature.

It is "2 Lo 2 go," and brings elevated concepts

down into the muck of lower life - so this

Post is personal opinion. Buddhism has a

precept agains "improper sexual action," and

the Dalai Lama condemned oral sex in an "Out"

magazine interview (Feb-March, 1994) It is

an important issue, and affects the whole

movement, mostly at its more esoteric level

- which where the real life of the Theosophical

Movement comes from. Throughout original

Theosophical literature there is the undercurrent

of the necessity of living a clean and moral

life. In the 19th century any reference to

morality and homosexuals was unnecessary, for

one thing, as it was common accepted truth

that it was immoral. Today that is not the

case and the gay lifestyle and politics is almost

a religion. The militant gay holds his gay

status more important than religion, politics

or anything else (certainly more important

than Theosophy!) The question could be ignored

in the 19th century, but can it today?



Why is this all important to Theosophy?

In my opinion because: (1) any group that

has a significant number of openly homosexuals

in it is DONE FOR, as far as the genuine

normal population being attracted. (I remember

the Buddhist event I went too, with the two

gay guys greeting each other with squeals,

and hugs.) (2) The homosexual, unless he

can rise above or indifferent to it, has

his two higher principles paralyzed. It is

incompatible with any type of Theosophical

"Inner Group." The probationary chela "Fern"

in the MLs is said to have had his two higher

principles paralyzed - from Jesuit training

when he was young. (MLs, p. 330, TUP) It's

the same thing, but from a different source.

Lower manas has to be open to higher manas

and buddhi, and this requires generally a basic

purity in lower manas and the lower self, and

in sex matters this means celibacy or heterosexuality

-

which are in tune with healthy human psychology

and Mother Nature, homosexuality is not. (3)

I think possibly one could say that homosexuals

have Wrecked the whole theosophical movment.

It might be possibly to breakdown the major

splits in Theosophical groups of the gays

vs. the straights, and the types of philosophies

they are inclined to accept. One can certainly

find a basis for this in Leadbeater-based

Neo-Theosophy at Adyar VS. Original Theosophy

at ULT and Point Loma. (Tingley was very

anti-homosexual, and Leadbeater and Wedgewood,

et. al. and their Liberal Catholic Church,

masonry and sex-teachings were homosexuals

and sympathizers. )



I remember reading an account

somewhere that Blavatsky had a deprecatory

nick-name for Leadbeater in reference to

his homosexuality (or pedophilia) - but can't

find the source. Purucker refered to homosexuals

somewhere, I believe, as an abnormality or

something to be pitied, sometimes an

evolutionary throw-back.



I joined an esoteric group about 30

years ago, and the Teacher's idea was that

the only way to go if one was really Serious,

was to be celibate. This isn't easy, wrecked

life with the girlfriend, and set me to mulling

occassionally over the whole sex-question for

the last 30+ years. The results of which I

think I got a lot of answers, some answers I

have to think were "shown" to me in one way

or another, because I don't see how I could

come up with the answers on my own. Some

general observations follow.



How does a person become a homosexual?

Is it something they are born with? I

think at least half are born with the skandas

or karmic tendency, which is something they

can't help. Where does this come from? Its

the karmic result of previous degeneracy,

for one source, I think. The hedonist becomes

jaded and looks for more and more extremes

for kicks. Just normal sex doesn't work

anymore and they fool their minds and experiment

more and more. Several hollywood stars come

to mind - who could have any woman or man

they wanted - but became homosexuals. Also,

people have all and any type of thoughts,

at least occassionally, and if in unhealthy

passivity. Naive persons who have an occassional

queer thought, become obesessed with the idea

that they are queer, when it should just be

ignored or forced out. People also get

obssessed. A male obsessed with a female

bhut (dead "shell" of someone who died early),

can become or urged by it to become queer,

and vice-versa. I know one case, I think,

of a young woman whose drug-addicted father

died, and then she became queer. What modern

psychologist would even consider such a thing!

Personally, I believe there is no such thing

in nature as a homosexual, but only arising

from various human-imposed causes.



Purucker says somewhere that the more

one is attracted to the opposite sex (and

acts on it), the more he becomes like the

opposite sex. This is how it is determined

if one is reincarnated as a male or female.

The hedonist gradually becomes like the

opposite sex, so the most "manly" or "womanly"

person is the celibate. If one gradually,

even in a normal lifestyle becomes and

reincarnates as the opposite sex, then there

must be a certain sort of "neutral point"

that is reached, and a person is born in a

male or female body, but is actually under-sexed

and "neutral" about sex more than most persons.

This could be a blessing, but the more asexual

person - especially nowdays - is convinced

by various propaganda that he is actually

homo-sexual instead of moreso neutral-sexual.

(You Have to be a sex-machine one way or

another! says modern psychology and media!)

How may young confused people who don't know

what to do with all the errant thoughts

put in their heads (put there by gay propaganda)

are convinced they are "gay" and Ruin their

whole lives - when they might have lived a

relatively normal life otherwise and even

cured themselves!! Believing the Politically

Correct propaganda that being a homosexual

is "just another healthy choice" - how many

100,000 young people have irrevocably entered

a lifestyle in which they are innerly-tortued

for life, many committing suicide directly

or in other ways???



In the world in general the homosexuals

are a "vested interest." Speak out in a

significant way about the suicidal immorality

of Society endorsing homosexual lifestyle, and

see what happens to you. A lot are

intelligent people, and a middle-class phenomenom,

and "gays" work together as interest groups.

They permeate the social-work system, the

medical system, and the police departments.

(Try being helpless in a hospital, when the

"gay-network" there of a couple hundred finds

out that you are a loathe-some "homo-phob."

[or "homo-disgusto" ]) People become irrational

when a "hot-spot" is poked. We all have them.

Some psychological complex where we are

vulnerable and out of harmony with ourselves

and nature, and when it is "poked" we feel

raped. "Passion-crimes" are committed when

people's hot-spots get poked.



So, is this a call for a pogrom

on homosexuals. No, of course not. Most are

decent people, and try to be so (excepting

the prison-types. ) There is nothing in Theosophy

or Buddhism that says sick people can't join,

as long as they don't wreck things. 'And we

are most ALL sick in one form or another.

One's open-mindedness and compassion is used

against oneself and theosophy, as often as

for it. But we are in the truth business

- not self-destructive make-believe for the

sake of social harmony, or social consequences

of knowing the real truth - for ourselves

at least.



- jake j.



____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __



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