Theos-Talk Archives (November 2006 Message tt00438)

Carlos,

Let me make several points to clarify what you are writing below.

Down thru the years I have been interested in researching various
branches of the Theosophical movement.  A few years ago on Theos-Talk 
I posted a considerable amount of material on Leadbeater, Besant, Neo-
Theosophy, the Adyar Society, etc. etc.

My interest in ULT and Crosibie is no different than the my interest 
in the Adyar TS or the Point Loma TS.

Now my attention over the years on ULT, DES and Crosbie has been 
deepened because of the number of ULT students that have responded to 
some of my research, postings, etc. on ULT, DES and Crosbie.

For example many years ago on Theos-Talk, I posted detailed info that 
showed that the Theosophy Company's edition of THE VOICE OF THE 
SILENCE had been EDITED and was not a "verbatim" edition of HPB's 
original.  I pointed out at the time that a truly "verbatim" edition 
of HPB's original is the one published by Theosophical University 
Press.

I would have thought that ULT students would have welcomed such 
information.  Instead most of the students responded with comments 
either denying what was so obvious or by all sorts of quibbling, etc. 
etc.

So these kinds of responses simply perked my interest even more in 
what might be call the "ULT mindset".  

Why such a concerted effort by some ULT students to deny what was as 
obvious as could be --- that is, that the ULT edition of the VOICE is 
not a facsimile edition of HPB's original and that some unknown 
editor has silently changed and "corrected" HPB's text?

I could give dozens of more examples, but the insight I gained from 
all of this is that in many, many ways, I concluded that many ULT 
students have a certain "mindset" which is very similar in many ways 
with the "mindset" of many Adyar TS students.

That is, an unwillingness to admit the obvious when the facts are 
presented.  I still remain somewhat puzzled even after many years at 
some Leadbeater students who apparently just can't see all the 
contradictions between Blavatsky and Leadbeater and who deny some of 
the most obvious facts about Leadbeater, etc.

Both groups of students seems to have what some might call a "cult" 
mentality.  A GROUP THINK mindset. 

Am I saying that the Adyar TS doesn't do some good work?  Am I saying 
that the ULT doesn't do good work?  Am I saying that ULT or Adyar 
members are not good people, sincere, etc.  No, never said that at 
all.  I have even from time to time pointed out all the good things 
that the ULT has accomplished.  But I am not going to ignore other 
things which seem less than commendable.  For example, when Adyar or 
ULT writers distort the historical record, etc.

In all my comments about ULT, I am not saying that its influence is 
better or "bigger" than Adyar.  I've made no comments whatsoever on 
this.

And when you mention that I criticize ULT or certain aspects of it or 
some of the history written about Crosbie, etc., well, is that bad or 
wrong?

What criticisms have I made that are not accurate, true?  Please if I 
have stated anything about ULT, Crosbie, etc. that you believe is not 
accurate, please state what I have written and then give corrections.

I could say more but I think what I say above gives a little context 
in order to understand what you are writing BELOW.

Daniel
http://hpb.cc


--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Carlos wrote:
>
> Daniel,
> 
> Thanks. 
> 
> If one would judge it by the amount of "attention" you give to the 
ULT, one would think the ULT is much bigger than the Adyar TS, or the 
Pasadena TS!
> 
> I must say that  in my view this is an unconscious homage of yours, 
payed to that  small  network of students, present in some 12 
countries perhaps, called ULT and founded in 1909 by Robert Crosbie 
and a few others.  
> 
> It means, I guess, that you consider the ULT absolutely central to 
the movement nowadays,  since,  in discussing the movement, you can't 
refrain from criticizing it all the time!  And now without using 
false names as you did before!  (Congratulations for that, my 
brother.) 
> 
> Yet I do know the ULT is but an effort to help the movement as a 
whole, with priority for its core, its essence, and to help people 
knolwn themselves better.   
> 
> And I can see other efforts are very important too, different as 
they are. 
> 
> Regards,  Carlos. 
>