Theos-Talk Archives (November 2006 Message tt00415)

Marie,

Have you seen what I have seen?


Carlos. 


De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Cópia:

Data:Mon, 06 Nov 2006 15:56:24 -0500

Assunto:Re: Theos-World CWL & Adyar Masonry

> 
> Carlos, your wrote: "
> Thanks. 
> 
> Not wanting to intrude too much in the personal lives of peoples, I have been to the USA and known some TSA people in other places as well; and I guess such influential people as Joy Mills and John Algeo, among many others, are "members of it all".
> 
> I would like to be too much specific, more than I have being.
> 
> Of course, Algeo is not "an ES man", though.
> 
> I am trying to keep to the general historical trends and avoiding personal details. 
> 
> As to intermediate leaders, lodge presidents, etc., I cannot tell.
> 
> "Everything" is active in Krotona, of course. And in Wheaton. So things are "shared", inclusive physical things, among the various "instances of the Adyar movement".
> 
> Regards, Carlos. "
> 
> _______________________________
> 
> It would be better not to make statements about what organizations prominent members of the Adyar TSA do or do not belong to because.....one can be very much mistaken, do you not agree? 
> 
> Marie
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: carlosaveline@terra.com.br
> To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 7:49 AM
> Subject: Theos-World CWL & Adyar Masonry
> 
> 
> Marie,
> 
> Thanks. 
> 
> Not wanting to intrude too much in the personal lives of peoples, I have been to the USA and known some TSA people in other places as well; and I guess such influential people as Joy Mills and John Algeo, among many others, are "members of it all".
> 
> I would like to be too much specific, more than I have being.
> 
> Of course, Algeo is not "an ES man", though.
> 
> I am trying to keep to the general historical trends and avoiding personal details. 
> 
> As to intermediate leaders, lodge presidents, etc., I cannot tell.
> 
> "Everything" is active in Krotona, of course. And in Wheaton. So things are "shared", inclusive physical things, among the various "instances of the Adyar movement".
> 
> Regards, Carlos. 
> 
> De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> 
> Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> 
> Cópia:
> 
> Data:Sun, 05 Nov 2006 13:58:21 -0500
> 
> Assunto:Re: Theos-World To Konstantin on CWL & Adyar Masonry
> 
> > Carlos, you partially wrote:
> > 
> > "LCC and co-masonry do not have their own buildings, or ways to 'get' new people outside the TS. They have to use the TS buildings, and they generally 'feed' or vampirize the Adyar TS in many ways, besides being a powerful influence, though disguised, over its leaders. They use the Ts as a façade to get neophites -- and they take people away from the ES, too, since they offer "occult status" to people, and the ES has "much less possibilities" in that department of Vanity. 
> > 
> > It has been so that TS leaders, national and international, "have" to be masons. A 'political need' to get to power. But masons 'do not have' to be fellows of the Adyar TS. "
> > 
> > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> > 
> > I just want to declare that I have personally know TSA in America persons of high administrative rank that were and are still, members of all three: co-masonry, L.C.C. and the Esoteric Section. Membership in each or all of these organizations does seem to be helpful for the advancement of personal ambitions within the Society. 
> > 
> > But perhaps this is due to the "birds of a feather flock together" syndrome which afflicts most of humanity. I am going to suggest, however, that most TSA members high in the administration are probably ES members, but few of those are also co-masons and/or L.C.C. members. And at least with the Wheaton TSA, the L.C.C. members there rent the use of churches for their services, and do not use the TSA buildings. The TSA does rent out space to the co-masonic meetings, however.
> > 
> > Marie
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: carlosaveline@terra.com.br
> > To: theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 6:57 AM
> > Subject: Theos-World To Konstantin on CWL & Adyar Masonry
> > 
> > 
> > Konstantin,
> > 
> > Thanks for the info and clarifications. 
> > 
> > By the end of your helpful message, you say: 
> > 
> > "I understand the purpose of LCC and co-masonry as to theosophize 
> > masonry, not to masonize or catholocize theosophy."
> > 
> > Not at all, Konstantin. I have seen that in Brazil, in Adyar, in the USA -- and have definite news about that from other countries, as the UK, Netherlands, Australia, and so on. You can check it yourself. 
> > 
> > LCC and co-masonry do not have their own buildings, or ways to 'get' new people outside the TS. They have to use the TS buildings, and they generally 'feed' or vampirize the Adyar TS in many ways, besides being a powerful influence, though disguised, over its leaders. They use the Ts as a façade to get neophites -- and they take people away from the ES, too, since they offer "occult status" to people, and the ES has "much less possibilities" in that department of Vanity. 
> > 
> > It has been so that TS leaders, national and international, "have" to be masons. A 'political need' to get to power. But masons 'do not have' to be fellows of the Adyar TS. 
> > 
> > And this structure was created by Leadbeater, mainly to defend himself from the short term karmic consequences of his pedophile 'love for boys' , id est, scandals. (Pedophile practices are crimes, as you know.) 
> > 
> > After Leabeater was rightfully expelled by Henry Olcott from the Adyar TS due to his repeated abuse of children, he had to wait less than a year for the death of Olcott -- and then he came back using various rituals as 'hidden political shields' against the consequences of his criminal actions. 
> > 
> > Then the 'esoteric popery' (as foreseen in the '1900 letter') was created.
> > 
> > By the way: the '1900 letter' was received by A. Besant exactly seven years before 1907, when Leadbeater came back and started creating "theosophical" rituals. Seven years. A cycle. 
> > 
> > Regards, Carlos. 
> > 
> > De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > 
> > Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > 
> > Cópia:
> > 
> > Data:Sat, 04 Nov 2006 15:53:08 -0000
> > 
> > Assunto:Theos-World Re: Konstantin and Russia
> > 
> > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "carlosaveline" 
> > > wrote:
> > > 
> > > > I would like to ask you a clarification about the meaning of your 
> > > sentences below:
> > > 
> > > "I think it will don't work, because at least certain leaders violate 
> > > principles expressed by Leadbeater in no lesser degree than principles 
> > > expressed by Blavatsky."
> > > 
> > > I mean that those who impose worship and control obviously follow some 
> > > their own principles, not the ideas of Leadbeater. They may use some 
> > > his ideas for their purposes but disconnecting them from the context, 
> > > it's exactly like some church leaders use some ideas from the Gospel 
> > > for their selfish ends.
> > > 
> > > Below are some quotations from CWL. Probably they are not the best, as 
> > > these are the first I could find, nevertheless they reflect clearly 
> > > his views on the authority of the theosophical leaders and freedom of 
> > > thought:
> > > 
> > > "I always said, "Don't believe anything just because I tell you,
> > > because I am liable to make mistakes just as any human being
> > > can." ...
> > > That is only my personal testimony in the matter, and I should
> > > not wish that any human being should base his convictions on
> > > that. He may take it; if he will, as evidence, but it is not
> > > proof; and he must remember that...
> > > 
> > > "The attainment of mental freedom was a necessary step in the process 
> > > of human evolution"
> > > 
> > > "It therefore becomes the duty of every student of occultism to
> > > examine carefully the religious belief of his country and his
> > > period, in order that he may decide for himself what of it is
> > > based upon reason and what is merely a superstitious accretion.
> > > Most men never make any such effort..."
> > > 
> > > Can we say that those leaders who are accused in "leadbeaterianism" 
> > > follow these principles?
> > > 
> > > > Are the LCC or the 'Theosophical Masonry' active there?
> > > 
> > > None of them.
> > > After all, rites play their role. Once a young man who formerly was a 
> > > Satanist, came to our meetins. He disappointed in the Satanism, but 
> > > our talks didn't satisfy him. It happened so that I gave a talk about 
> > > freemasonry. He became deeply interested in it, and wanted to join the 
> > > freemasons, where he was redirected to. I don't know whether he was 
> > > accepted, as I am not a freemason myself; yet I think it would be 
> > > better to direct him to the co-masonic lodge where masonry is 
> > > connected with a bit of theosophy, but unfortunately we have no such 
> > > lodges in Russia.
> > > 
> > > I understand the purpose of LCC and co-masonry as to theosophize 
> > > masonery, not to masonize or catholocize theosophy.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
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> > 
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> > 
> > 
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
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> > 
> > 
> > 
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