Carl: Twisting?
Nov 06, 2006 05:11 AM
by carlosaveline
Carl,
Again, personal accusations of "twisting".
Can you keep personal accusations of absence of bona fide apart?
There is no sense in having a dialogue if there is not good will, is there?
What is the point of accusing one of "twisting"?
Think about that and control your anxiety in the discussion, please.
Carlos.
De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
Cópia:
Data:Mon, 06 Nov 2006 02:27:25 -0000
Assunto:[Spam] Theos-World Re: CARL NOW DOES CLARIFY!
> Carlos,
> You wrote: "So there is NOTHING about HPB being an active member of
> any ritualistic
> Organizations in the 19 century."
> Don't twist it around now, for the discussion was if she ever was an
> active mason or not, and on that my answer is that I have never seen
> that. And if she participates in any Masonic lodge meeting, I don't
> know. But if she come, they surely hade let her in.
> But she was a member of more then two Masonic orders, and one of
> this the A.P.R.M. was honorary. The others (inkl. Sat Bhai), read
> for you self:
>
> "My Masonic experience ? if you will so term membership in several
> Eastern Masonic fraternities and esoteric brotherhoods ? is confined
> to the Orient." (HPB Speaks, vol. I p. 31)
>
> You wrote: "As to her 'honorary membership' -- take a look at the
> facsimile copy of HPB's masonic "Adoption" diploma in "HPB Speaks".
> That is honorary, no doubt."
> The Masonic term "Adoption" DOES NOT mean honorary, it means that it
> is female Masonry. The origin of the term is from France, in the
> 1770', when Masonic lodge was founded for women, or mixed. Hence
> women can't (from their point of view, and then of course) rule a
> lodge them self, these female lodges was "Adopted" by a male lodge,
> and the Lodge Mistress reported to the Worshipful Master of the male
> lodge, that had adopted the female lodge.
>
> And plus the Theosophical Society and The Esoteric School of
> Theosophy, of course. The rituals of TS (written by Olcott 1876) and
> EST (based on the old TS-rituals, and rewritten by HPB 1888) were
> inspired of Masonic rituals. In Sweden (in the three society, Point
> Loma, Adyar and the Independent Swedish TS), this rituals was used
> in till after the 1900. I have seen a photograph from a Pasadena EST-
> meeting in Helsingborg from the early 1950's. They were al dressed
> up in dress cotes, wearing the EST-jewels (stars, as designed by KT,
> or on her order) and the lodge room was lighted with candelabras
> (there is no doute what it was; hence one clearly can see HPB's, M's
> and KH's portraits in the background and one of the participants I
> know in person very well). In 2003, we arrange the
> last "celebration" of the White Lotus Day in Gothenburg, after a
> ritual written 1889 by Dr Gustaf Zander, President-Founder of the TS
> in Sweden, Judge's Agent for EST in Scandinavia, disciple of Jasper
> Niemand and corresponding with Judge in till 1896. This was arranged
> together by Pasadena TS and the Swedish TS. 68 people were present,
> and I was in chair.
>
> Don't say that there has not been or are no rituals in the TM. They
> are there, and have been there from the very beginning (1876). If
> branches want to work with them, they are free to do so, if they not
> want to, when don't have to. It is the same in Adyar, today, to. I
> know Adyar lodges that still have a ritual (not the same as the
> original, as far as I know) to initiate new members. I was present
> in one in 1994 (The Wesak Lodge in Sweden).
>
> Carl
>
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "carlosaveline"
> wrote:
> >
> > Carl,
> >
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > So there is NOTHING about HPB being an active member of any
> ritualistic organizations in the 19 century. (See below).
> Excellent, my brother. Facts are facts and this absence of
> evidences is a FACT, for sure.
> >
> > As to her 'honorary membership' -- take a look at the facsimile
> copy of HPB's masonic "Adoption" diploma in "HPB Speaks". That is
> honorary, no doubt.
> >
> > Note that HPB denounced in most vehement terms the "ceremonial
> magic" as a practice for the 19th century.
> >
> > She probably could smelll the uselessness, nay, the harmfulness of
> it in the Aquarius Age...
> >
> > Regards, Carlos.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Cópia:
> >
> > Data:Sat, 04 Nov 2006 14:51:39 -0000
> >
> > Assunto:[Spam] Theos-World Re: HPB and Sat B'hai
> >
> > > Carlos,
> > > My answers are in capital letters.
> > >
> > > Sorry, but whare is the desmonstration that HPB was ever active
> in
> > > such a a
> > > movement? NOTHING, AND THERE IS NOTHING ABOUT ANY "HONORARY
> MEMBERS"
> > > EITHER.
> > >
> > > Did she write about that in a letter not forged? What about
> > > originals of her
> > > statement that she belonged to it? ASK TILLETT, AND THE
> RESEARCHERS
> > > IN QC IN LONDON.
> > >
> > > Did any of her contemporaries (loyal theosophists) write about
> such
> > > an active
> > > membership? NO< ANF I HAVE NEVER SAID THAT EITHER.
> > >
> > > What did Olcott tie about this? SORRY, BUT I DON"T UNDERSTAND
> THIS
> > > QUESTION. SAY IT IN OUTHER WORDS, PLEASE.
> > >
> > >
> > > And then, Boris de Zirkoff? S. Cranston? Did Boris include
> anything
> > > about that
> > > in HPB's Collected Writings? WAY DO ASK THAT TO ME? SORRY, THEY
> ARE
> > > BOTH DEAD, IF THEY WASEN'T, YOU SHOULD HAVE ASKED THEM THAT, AND
> NOT
> > > ME. I THINK THERE IS A FOTNOT IN BCW, BUT I HAVE TO LOOK TO BE
> SURE.
> > >
> > >
> > > I am talking about good old theosophical sources. (You know
> there is
> > > a lot of
> > > people talking to HPB and the Masters around the corner or
> useing
> > > their names
> > > for their own purposes.) YES, I KNOW THAT VERY MUCH. BUT THE
> FACT
> > > THAT THERE ARE THINGS ABOUT HBP AND THE MASTER, THAT YOU DON'T
> > > HAPPENED TO LIKE, DOESEN'T MAKE THEM UNTRUE OR FALSE.
> > >
> > >
> > > Carl
> > >
> > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "carlosaveline"
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Carl,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Sorry, but whare is the desmonstration that HPB was ever
> active in
> > > such a a movement?
> > > >
> > > > Did she write about that in a letter not forged? What about
> > > originals of her statement that she belonged to it?
> > > >
> > > > Did any of her contemporaries (loyal theosophists) write about
> > > such an active membership?
> > > >
> > > > What did Olcott tie about this?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > And then, Boris de Zirkoff? S. Cranston? Did Boris include
> > > anything about that in HPB's Collected Writings?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I am talking about good old theosophical sources. (You know
> there
> > > is a lot of people talking to HPB and the Masters around the
> corner
> > > or useing their names for their own purposes.)
> > > >
> > > > In bona fide, Carlos.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > >
> > > > Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > >
> > > > Cópia:
> > > >
> > > > Data:Sat, 04 Nov 2006 13:26:42 -0000
> > > >
> > > > Assunto:[Spam] Theos-World Re: HPB and Sat B'hai
> > > >
> > > > > Carlos,
> > > > > See the "Sat Bhai Code" below. Do you see anything about
> > > > > any "honorary member" there?
> > > > >
> > > > > Carl
> > > > > ______________________________________________
> > > > > CODE
> > > > > OF
> > > > > THE ROYAL ORIENTAL ORDER
> > > > > OF
> > > > > SIKHA (APEX) AND THE SAT BHAI
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > RAHU
> > > > > REPRESENTATIVE OF ARTIRAM
> > > > > AND OF
> > > > > THE SAT BHAI OF PRAG
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > THE CODE OF SIKHA (APEX), &c.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > (1) This Oriental Order embraces the Perfect Terrestrial
> Zone of
> > > 360
> > > > > degrees, and the Mystic Zone inclusive of all others, and
> > > occupies
> > > > > the highest point of the Masonic fabric. Therefore, while
> under
> > > its
> > > > > benign influence, justice is done to all, and innovations
> > > > > inconsistent with the grand principles of harmony, and a
> just
> > > > > equality, regulated to the varied circumstances of the
> social
> > > scale,
> > > > > are righteously condemned.
> > > > > (2) This Paramount Order is divided into two, namely, that
> of
> > > Sikha
> > > > > (Apex), the Supreme and Ultimate Mundane, and of the Sat
> Bhai of
> > > > > Pryaya.
> > > > > (3) It is a fundamental principle, that there has been a
> regular
> > > > > succession from the East of the whole Order; but more
> especially
> > > of
> > > > > the Sat Bhai, and without this succession, the chief title
> of
> > > the
> > > > > Order to universal respect could not exist. This being so,
> the
> > > > > Sponsor by whom the succession has been kept up, and such
> > > Sponsors
> > > > > as have been adopted into it, must in their dual capacity,
> as
> > > well
> > > > > as individually, be incapable of deposition or supersession,
> for
> > > > > without them, and the possession by the original Sponsor of
> the
> > > Red
> > > > > Ribbon of the Order, there could not possibly be any
> succession,
> > > and
> > > > > consequently there could be no Order.
> > > > > (4) But, inasmuch as worldly considerations, in their narrow
> > > sense,
> > > > > are alien to the spiritual instructions of the Sponsors,
> they
> > > have
> > > > > been permitted to delegate their administrative and
> executive
> > > > > powers, in large measure, to the Arch Censors, who are
> > > accordingly
> > > > > charged with such duties, while the legislative function,
> and
> > > the
> > > > > veto, personal as well as dual, remains with the former, as
> an
> > > > > unalienable inheritance, within the Perfect Circle, as
> > > transmitted
> > > > > by the Sat Bhai of Pryaya.
> > > > > (5) At any moment of supreme peril to the occidental home of
> the
> > > > > Order of Sikha (Apex), and of the Sat Bhai, it shall be the
> > > > > imperative duty of the First Sponsor, who holds the Red
> Ribbon
> > > of
> > > > > the Order, to summon the Arch Arbiter, the Second Sponsor,
> and
> > > one
> > > > > Arch Censor, and in their presence to break the seal of the
> > > letter
> > > > > from Prag, that contains the special mandate of the Lord of
> the
> > > > > Perfect Circle, and of the Sat Bhai, such mandate being
> > > absolutely
> > > > > irresistible, and of effect over the whole of this Code. And
> > > with
> > > > > the exception of this one reservation, this Code shall be
> > > > > irrevocable and incapable of abrogation, and the Sponsors,
> and
> > > Arch
> > > > > Censors are charged with its application to the organisation
> of
> > > the
> > > > > mystic subjects of the Lord of the Perfect Terrestrial Zone.
> > > > > (6) Within the Perfect Circle, the mystic numbers Nine and
> Seven
> > > are
> > > > > pre-eminent, and while the Lord of the Perfect Circle and
> the
> > > > > Sponsors complete the higher number, the lower, under the
> > > immediate
> > > > > influence of the Sat Bhai, is subdivided into seven classes,
> > > namely:-
> > > > > (1). Arch Censors. (2). Arch Couriers. (3). Arch Ministers.
> (4).
> > > > > Arch Heralds. (5). Arch Scribes. (6). Arch Auditors. (7).
> Arch
> > > > > Mutes.
> > > > > (7) The Arch Censors, being of the highest dignity of the
> Sat
> > > Bhai,
> > > > > rule the six subordinate classes, and each, in his own
> > > jurisdiction,
> > > > > is paramount. In this grade all are equal, and there is no
> > > priority.
> > > > > (8) Each Member of each Censorial Section of the six
> subordinate
> > > > > classes, shall be known personaily only to his own Censor,
> and
> > > to
> > > > > the Sponsors under the Lord of the Perfect Zone and in the
> chain
> > > of
> > > > > secrecy as well as of responsibility (nccessary for the
> > > exclusion of
> > > > > the uninitiated), every second link is locked downwards by
> > > symbols,
> > > > > signs and countersignshence, the Arch Censor is only known
> to
> > > his
> > > > > own Arch Couriers, each of the latter to his own Arch
> Ministers,
> > > and
> > > > > so on.
> > > > > (9) No one can be admitted to the four higher classes of the
> Sat
> > > > > Bhai who has not been previously initiated in the Mystery of
> > > > > Freemasonry; and it is a fundamental decree, that the
> classes
> > > Arch
> > > > > Censor, and Arch Courier are closed against all but Master
> > > Masons,
> > > > > and those of higher degree. But the three lower classes are
> open
> > > to
> > > > > both sexes, at the discretion of each Arch Censor, within
> his
> > > own
> > > > > jurisdiction.
> > > > > (10) In order to preserve the due relation between the
> various
> > > > > grades, and to distinguish those of greater exaltation, a
> system
> > > of
> > > > > numbers pervades the whole, so that each individual may be
> > > clearly
> > > > > distinguished. But mystic names, conferred by the Sponsors,
> > > pertain
> > > > > exclusively to the four higher classes of the Sat Bhai; the
> > > lower
> > > > > receiving only ordinary names. These numbers run thus,
> > > throughout
> > > > > the combined Order of Sikha (Apex) and the Sat Bhai:-
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Sikha (Apex)-the Supreme Mundane 1
> > > > > ................... 2/1 [In a circle.
> > > > > Sponsors ................... 2/2 "
> > > > > ................... 2/3 "
> > > > > A. Censor ................... 3/1 3/2 3/3 &c.
> > > > > [In a triangle.
> > > > > A. Courier .................... 4/1 &c. [In an
> > > > > ellipse.
> > > > > A. Minister ................... 5/1 &c. [In a
> > > > > parallelogram.
> > > > > A. Herald ................... 6/1 &c. [In a
> > > > > lozenge.
> > > > > A. Scribe ................... 7/1 &c. [Plain.
> > > > >
> > > > > A. Auditor ................... 8/1 &c. [Plain.
> > > > >
> > > > > A. Mute .................... 9/1 &c. [Plain.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Furthermore, to distinguish these grades within their
> special
> > > > > Circles, the svmbol of each Arch Censor is prefixed to the
> > > number of
> > > > > the inferior grade in the manner shown in plate 1, figure 1.
> > > > >
> > > > > 4/1
> > > > > The Arch Courier 1, of Indra.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > But as the A. C. has three symbols, the first is placed
> before
> > > the
> > > > > Couriers, the second before the Ministers, and the third
> before
> > > the
> > > > > Heralds. (11) Each member of each grade nominates seven
> > > assistants,
> > > > > and these seven, in like manner, seven probationers; but
> these
> > > > > receive only the simple number of their superior, a red
> line,
> > > drawn
> > > > > horizontally through which, indicates an assistant, and a
> red
> > > one,
> > > > > vertically, a probationer. These auxiliaries qualify to
> become
> > > Arch
> > > > > Mutes, but are not considered as within the Perfect Circle,
> nor
> > > are
> > > > > they admitted to its mysteries; they, however, are taught
> that
> > > the
> > > > > mystery came from Pryaya, and are employed to advance the
> cause
> > > of
> > > > > universal harmony, and their authority is a brief prescript
> > > signed
> > > > > by the immediate superior, by which their subordination, on
> the
> > > > > pledged word, is secured.
> > > > > (12) The Obligation, on the simple word of honour of the
> > > candidate,
> > > > > in every class throughout the combined Order, is accepted as
> > > > > sufficient. None but men of reputed honour, true to their
> word,
> > > are
> > > > > admitted, and to such men, experience shows, that the
> pledged
> > > word
> > > > > is as inviolable as the solemn oath, the latter as profane,
> > > being
> > > > > excluded from the presence of the Lord of the Perfect
> Circle.
> > > > > (13) Every member of the Order is bound to be in possession
> of a
> > > > > mandate or commission, signed in cipher by the Sponsors, and
> > > > > endorsed in like manner, by their respective Arch Censors,
> > > according
> > > > > to the system of locked links.
> > > > > (14) The Arch Censors are not necessarily known by their
> > > personal
> > > > > names to each other, but they may hold congress, under the
> > > sanction
> > > > > of the sponsors, for the discussion of important matters
> > > connected
> > > > > with their own jurisdiction, and within its limits; but one
> > > > > dissencient voice, whether the whole be present or not,
> shall
> > > > > invalidate any regulation framed by such congress, and the
> veto
> > > of
> > > > > the Sponsors, individual as well as dual, will have the same
> > > effect,
> > > > > the object being to protect the perhaps farther seeing,
> > > minority, a
> > > > > policy taught by the history of mankind.
> > > > > (15) The Sponsors are to be furnished with quarterly
> reports,
> > > > > commencing on the first day of each year, by each Censor,
> who in
> > > > > like manner will- be furnished with the necessary report, by
> his
> > > > > subordinates, and, a return of moneys due and paid, shall be
> > > > > comprised in these reports, in addition to administrative
> > > details.
> > > > > (16) These reports will be framed according to the nature of
> the
> > > > > duties of each class thus: The Arch Censors have the
> > > superintendence
> > > > > of the Masonic world, from 360 ° to 19 °; the Arch Couriers
> from
> > > 18
> > > > > ° to 11 %#176;;- The Arch Ministers from 10 ° to 4 °; the
> Arch
> > > > > Heralds from 3 ° to 1 °. The Arch Scribes are charged with
> > > fiscal
> > > > > details, the payment of fees for charters, and commissions
> to
> > > the
> > > > > Arch Illuminator for materials and work supplied, and the
> fees
> > > on
> > > > > admission, and exaltation, as settled, and regulated by the
> Arch
> > > > > Censors, the latter being charged with a general
> supervision.
> > > The
> > > > > Arch Auditors and Arch Mutes are charged with the collection
> of
> > > > > important information from all sources, public and private.
> > > > > The Sponsors receive no fees, but whatever is voted to them
> by
> > > the
> > > > > Arch Censors, they may accept.
> > > > > (17) The Arch Arbiter is the highest judicial functionary,
> and
> > > is
> > > > > known only by his name within the Perfect Circle, but has no
> > > active
> > > > > part or responsibility in the Order, and is superseded
> > > periodically.
> > > > > (18) In each case when a superior is addressed, he must be
> > > protected
> > > > > by his inferior against the expenses of a correspondence
> which
> > > must
> > > > > necessarily be of vast extent, and which would be oppressive
> to
> > > the
> > > > > superior.
> > > > > (19) The offices of Arch Emissary, Arch Secretary, Arch
> > > Historian,
> > > > > Arch Treasurer, Arch Auditor and Arch Illuminator are
> tentative,
> > > the
> > > > > first, fourth, and fifth being extra to the Order. Of their
> > > > > patronage, the first is in the gift of the Sponsors, the
> second
> > > and
> > > > > sixth of the first Sponsor, or he who holds the Red Ribbon
> and
> > > Bell
> > > > > of the Order, the third, fourth, and fifth, of the Arch
> Censors.
> > > > > (20) Among the archives of the Order are many fragments of
> > > Oriental
> > > > > antiquity, and these comprise various documents in the
> ancient
> > > > > languages of the East. When required to secure in a printed
> > > form,
> > > > > the Book of Sikha (Apex), and Legend of the Red Ribbon, the
> > > first
> > > > > Sponsor will receive proposals from the Arch Censors with
> that
> > > end
> > > > > in view, one grand object of the Order being to incite to a
> > > study of
> > > > > the great truths contained in early Sanskrit literature.
> > > > > (21) No member of the Order can be superseded or expelled,
> nor
> > > shall
> > > > > he have the power to resign his office (and never his
> > > membership)
> > > > > without the final sanction of the Sponsors, under the advice
> of
> > > the
> > > > > Arch Arbiter, or Hindu referee.
> > > > > (22) The R.O.O. of Sikha and the Sat Bhai is the only system
> of
> > > > > Round or Natural Freemasonry.
> > > > > (23) The signs and passwords of this Order are issued only
> by
> > > the
> > > > > First Sponsor triennially, when they are changed at the
> Vernal
> > > > > Equinox. No S.B. can share in the rites and councils of the
> > > Order
> > > > > who is not in possession of the signs and passwords of the
> > > smaller
> > > > > cycles. But the Illuminated who are in the innermost circle
> are
> > > > > exempt from ordinary rules. An Arch Censor may be
> Illuminated
> > > > > without preliminary perfection or maturity, and only the
> > > Illuminated
> > > > > are eligible to succeed to the death vacancy of a Sponsor.
> > > > > (24) The great Lotus Seal of the Order is common to the
> > > > > Jurisdictions of the Order, but its custodian must be
> elected in
> > > the
> > > > > jurisdiction, and subject to the confirmation of the First
> > > Sponsor.
> > > > > (25) The Code of Sikha (Apex) is the sole law of the R.O.O.,
> and
> > > is
> > > > > immutable. But signs and passwords are tentative for fixed
> > > periods,
> > > > > and bye-laws may be permitted tentatively by Rahu, as
> > > representative
> > > > > of Artiram. Nothing is valid without the personal and usual
> lay
> > > > > signature of the Arch Secretary to verity it.
> > > > > (26) The Third Sponsor, as a rule, dormant, may, by the
> > > proclamation
> > > > > of the First Sponsor, be called into activity and duality
> with
> > > him,
> > > > > whereupon the Second Sponsor becomes for a season or seasons
> > > > > dormant. No Sponsor can be also an Arch Censor, but he may
> > > > > temporarily discharge the latter's functions.
> > > > > (27) The Vernal Equinoxes for changing signs and Passwords
> are
> > > in
> > > > > 1877, 1875, 1878, 1881, 1884, 1887, 1890, &c.
> > > > > (28) There are three Seals, viz. -The Great Lotus Seal; the
> Key
> > > Seal
> > > > > of the Arch Secretary; and the First Sponsors Privy Seal;
> There
> > > are
> > > > > also the Arch Censors' segmental Seals.
> > > > > (29) No Ritual can be used which is not stamped with the
> Great
> > > Seal
> > > > > of the Order produced in Ashayana. So also Perfected
> Sadhanams,
> > > > > Marks, and Illuminated Sadhanams are invalid without the
> said
> > > seal
> > > > > and the confirmation of the First Sponsor presiding in
> Ashayana.
> > > The
> > > > > Order holds Ghonslas Ashayanas, and Nidams, to which there
> is no
> > > > > admission without Mandate or Sadhanam. The latter is
> ineffectual
> > > > > unless endorsed by the Arch Secretary in his usual lay
> > > signature.
> > > > > (30) No Sat Bhai can resign, but absolute ignoring of O.B.,
> or
> > > any
> > > > > notoriously gross act of dishonour involves de facto, loss
> of
> > > rank
> > > > > to be signified by the First Sponsor and Arch Secretary.
> > > > > (31) There may be more than one jurisdiction. That of the
> First
> > > > > Sponsor is the paramount. Each may have its own A. Censors,
> &c.;
> > > > > Segments may be exchanged.
> > > > > (32) There are seven Provinces or an Heptarchy in England,
> > > Scotland,
> > > > > and Ireland. Mahanathas rule these by charter under the
> Great
> > > Seal
> > > > > of the Order. The Sponsors form the Court of Appeal of
> these,
> > > but no
> > > > > Sponsor can receive any donative or fee of intrinsic value.
> In
> > > their
> > > > > case gifts must be honorary, such as testimonials on
> parchment.
> > > > > (33) 'The Feathers of the Sat Bhai', Archaeological Tracts
> of
> > > the
> > > > > R.O.O. may be under the editorship of any S.B. duly
> appointed.
> > > > >
> > > > > SYMBOLS, ETC.
> > > > > The symbols, Paroles and countersigns, ancient and modern,
> of
> > > the
> > > > > Royal Oriental Order of Sikha (Apex) and of the Sat Bhai of
> > > Pryaya.
> > > > > (1) The Symbols of Sikha (Apex) are:- (1) The Mundane Egg.
> (2).
> > > The
> > > > > Crossed Square within a Perfect circle. (3). The Fruit of
> the
> > > Sacred
> > > > > Lotus. (4). The Harmonic Octave, expressed by its graphic
> > > expression
> > > > > of a double shell. (5) The Anga. (6) A swan. (7) A Bull.
> [plate
> > > 1,
> > > > > figures 1,2,3,4,5,6,7]. The Symbol of the Sat Bhai is Seven
> Grey
> > > > > Feathers, 2,3, and 2
> > > > > (2) The symbols of the Dual Sponsors are - (1).The Crescent
> > > Moon.
> > > > > (2). The Signs of the Ascending and of the descending Node.
> Of
> > > the
> > > > > first Sponsor-- (1). The Rose. (2) The Kamalata. (3) An
> Arrow.
> > > Of
> > > > > the Second Sponsor--(1). An Unicorn's Horn. (2) The
> Amaranth. Of
> > > the
> > > > > Dormant Sponsor--The Sun in eclipse.
> > > > > The parole or pass-word to the Sponsors is ......... ; the
> sign,
> > > > > touching the......... of the .........
> > > > > (3) The Arch Censors are in the third yug symbolised by a
> Boar
> > > > > avatar (plate 1, figure 18]. Their distinctive symbols are
> three
> > > > > each:-
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. Indra I A Thunderbolt 2 A Lamp 3.
> > > > >
> > > > > 2. Ganesha 1 An EIephant 2 A Conch 3.
> > > > >
> > > > > 3. Agni 1 A Flame 2 A Lotus 3.
> > > > >
> > > > > 4. Surya 1 A Wheel 2 Sunflower 3.
> > > > >
> > > > > 5. Kartikeya 1 A Peacock 2 A Sword 3.
> > > > >
> > > > > 6. Kama 1 A Parrot 2 A Bent Bow 3.
> > > > >
> > > > > 7. Daksha 1 A Dexter Hand 2 An Ear of Wheat
> > > > > 3.
> > > > >
> > > > > The pass-word to the Arch Censors is......... ; the sign,
> > > touching
> > > > > the......... of the right .........
> > > > > (4) The Arch Couriers are in the fourth yug, of which the
> symbol
> > > is
> > > > > a lion-headed man. They have one distinctive symbol each
> placed
> > > > > under their respective A. Censor's first symbol. The
> password to
> > > > > this grade is......... ; the sign, touching the.........
> with
> > > > > the......... forefinger.
> > > > > (5) The Arch Ministers are in the fifth yug, symbolised by
> two
> > > > > interlaced triangles. They have one distinctive symbol each,
> > > placed
> > > > > under their respective A. Censor's second symbol. The
> password
> > > to
> > > > > this grade is......... ; the sign, touching the......... of
> > > > > the.........
> > > > > (6) The Arch Heralds are in the sixth yug, for which the
> symbol
> > > is
> > > > > an antique crown. They have one distinctive symbol each,
> placed
> > > > > under their respective A. Censor's third symbol. The
> password to
> > > > > this grade is......... the sign, the palms.........
> > > > > (7) The Arch Scribes are in the seventh yug. There are no
> > > symbols in
> > > > > this grade, but the A. Ss. have distinctive numbers in the
> > > Nagara
> > > > > character. Pass-word.......... No sign.
> > > > > (8) The Arch Auditors are in the eighth yug. They have each
> a
> > > > > Devanagri letter before their names, under the Minister's
> > > symbol. No
> > > > > password. No sign.
> > > > > (9) The Arch Mutes are in the ninth yug: They have each a
> letter
> > > in
> > > > > the Devanagri character before their names and under the
> > > Herald's
> > > > > symbol. No pass-word. No sign.
> > > > > Nomenclature of the Arch Grades, under the Lord of the
> Perfect
> > > Zone,
> > > > > 360 °:-
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 1 Sponsor.............. Rahu
> > > > > 2 Sponsor.............. Ketu
> > > > > 3 Kamadyam......... [Dormant]
> > > > > 1 Arch Censor Indra 1 Arch Minister
> > > > > Dhanus
> > > > > 2 " " Ganesha 2 " "
> > > > > Mesha
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 3 " " Agni 3 " "
> > > > > Vrisha
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 4 " " Surya 4 " " Simha
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 5 " " Kartikeya 5 " "
> > > > > Makara
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 6 " " Kama 6 " " Kumba
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 7 " " Daksha 7 " "
> > > > > Karkata
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 1 Arch Courier Kuvera 1 Arch Herald
> > > > > Sanjaya
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 2 " " Vira Badra 2 " "
> > > > > Heri
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 3 " " Bhairava 3 " "
> > > > > Rama
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 4 " " Varuna 4 " "
> > > > > Nareda
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 5 " " Yama 5 " "
> > > > > Agastya
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 6 " " Garuda 6 " " Hotri
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 7 " " Aruna 7 " "
> > > > > Petri
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 1 Arch Scribe Pravaha 1 Arch Auditor Rad
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 2 " " Avaha 2 " " Tara
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 3 " " Udraha 3 " "
> > > > > Nadiyan
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 4 " " Samkaha 4 " "
> > > > > Ankhen
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 5 " " Vivaha 5 " " Kan
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 6 " " Parivaha 6 " "
> > > > > Udaka
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 7 " " Nivaha 7 " " Vayu
> > > > >
> > > > > 1 Arch Mute Kalga fem. Narangi
> > > > > 2 " " Pipat " Angur
> > > > > 3 " " Bat " Zaitun
> > > > > 4 " " Champa " Seb
> > > > > 5 " " Tulasi " Angir
> > > > > 6 " " Singarhar " Badan
> > > > > 7 " " Soma " Anar
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > (10) Oriental garments being disused, except the Grey Choga
> and
> > > Cap,
> > > > > the only mark of membership is a red silk cord of three
> strands,
> > > > > round the neck.
> > > > > The general pass-word is......... The colours of the Order
> are
> > > Red,
> > > > > Blue, White; those of Sponsors, Red, Blue, Yellow; and of
> > > Segments,
> > > > > the Prismatic.
> > > > > MONETARY REGULATIONS
> > > > > Under the supervision of the Arch Censors, Arch Treasurer,
> and
> > > Arch
> > > > > Scribes, and extra to the Order.
> > > > > (1) A reserve fund for charity, and the use of the
> intelligence
> > > > > department, is to be formed.
> > > > > (2) The Sponsors having renounced all Claim on the funds of
> the
> > > > > Order, they may accept donations as offerings to Sikha
> (Apex)
> > > > > without injury to the spiritual element, if voluntarily, and
> > > > > unconditionally made by the Arch Censors.
> > > > > (3) The Arch Censors and their subordinates are entitled to
> > > > > remuneration for actual work done. The Arch Censors'
> regulations
> > > > > must be accepted, if promulgated by the Seven in Congress,
> and
> > > > > unanimous.
> > > > > 4) The Arch Secretary is entitled to recompense for time and
> > > outlay.
> > > > > (5) The Arch Illuminator is entitled to recompense for time
> and
> > > > > outlay, in preparing charters or commissions, &c. His
> charges
> > > have
> > > > > been allowed. For a parchment charter, if required
> illuminated,
> > > one
> > > > > guinea; for a prescript or mandate, two shillings and
> sixpence;
> > > and
> > > > > for symbols of Sponsors and Censors, each one shilling.
> > > > > (6) The Arch Treasurer is entitled to a percentage on the
> funds,
> > > the
> > > > > same to be fixed by the Arch Censors in Congress.
> > > > > (7) The other Arch Officers receive remuneration according
> to
> > > duties
> > > > > performed, or expenses incurred.
> > > > > (8) The first Occidental Arch Censors, under the
> dispensation of
> > > the
> > > > > Lord of the Perfect Zone, have entered the Circle free; but
> > > their
> > > > > successors, and those of the grades under their
> jurisdiction,
> > > are
> > > > > required to pay the following fees to the Arch Treasurer for
> the
> > > > > Arch Censors:-
> > > > > £ s. d. £ s. d.
> > > > >
> > > > > A. Mute " " A. Auditor " "
> > > > >
> > > > > A. Scribe " " A. Herald "
> > > > > "
> > > > > A. Minister " " A. Courier "
> > > > > "
> > > > > A. Censor £ " "
> > > > > These fees may be regulated from time to time.
> > > > > To obviate the inconvenience of disclosing the titles of the
> > > Order
> > > > > to the outer world, the postal address will be 'Secretary
> (or
> > > other)
> > > > > of the Royal Oriental S. B. Order.'
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "carlosaveline"
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Carl, Tillett, Friends,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > OK.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So HPB was an "honorary member" of the Sat Bhai, and this,
> as
> > > > > early as 1877.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Honorary member is no active member; it means that a
> homage
> > > was
> > > > > made to her.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Not the only one -- as she had a diploma from "Adoption
> > > Masonry",
> > > > > too.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Honorary titles.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Best regards, Carlos.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cópia:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Data:Sat, 4 Nov 2006 07:12:20 +1100 (EST)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Assunto:Theos-World HPB and Sat B'hai
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > In April, 1878, HPB and Colonel Olcott discussed this
> > > > > possibility, and
> > > > > > > concluded that it would serve to restore "the vital
> element
> > > of
> > > > > Oriental
> > > > > > > Mysticism" to the higher degrees. But there were
> objections
> > > from
> > > > > Indian
> > > > > > > members of the TS, and the scheme was abandoned.
> However,
> > > both
> > > > > HPB and
> > > > > > > Olcott were made Honorary Members of the Sat B'hai, on
> > > August 9,
> > > > > 1877.
> > > > > > > HPB was made a member of the sixth degree, level one,
> Arch
> > > > > Auditor; the
> > > > > > > name of this degree and level was Rad, and, like the
> fifth
> > > and
> > > > > seventh
> > > > > > > degrees, was open both non-Masons and to women. HSO was
> made
> > > a
> > > > > member of
> > > > > > > the second degree, sixth level. Arch Courier; the name
> of
> > > this
> > > > > degree was
> > > > > > > Garuda, and it was open only to Master Masons (as was
> the
> > > first
> > > > > degree).
> > > > > > > In Sat B'hai the first degree was the highest, and the
> > > seventh
> > > > > the lowest.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The Royal Oriental Order of Sikha (Apex) and the Sat
> B'hai
> > > seems
> > > > > to have
> > > > > > > been founded by an Anglo-Indian, Captain James Henry
> > > Lawrence
> > > > > Archer of
> > > > > > > the Indian Army, but the organization of the Order was
> > > largely
> > > > > of the work
> > > > > > > of Kenneth Robert Henderson Mackenzie (1833-86), author
> of
> > > > > the "Royal
> > > > > > > Masonic Cyclopaedia" (1877), and a member of the TS. The
> > > first
> > > > > public
> > > > > > > statements about the Order appeared in correspondence
> > > in "The
> > > > > Freemason"
> > > > > > > in early 1871, however although great claims were made
> for
> > > its
> > > > > antiquity
> > > > > > > and importance, and despite Mackenzie's efforts to
> establish
> > > it
> > > > > as a
> > > > > > > working organization, it does not seem to have moved
> much
> > > beyond
> > > > > being a
> > > > > > > plan. By January, 1879, Mackenzie had concluded that the
> > > Order
> > > > > had
> > > > > > > finished.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The Sat B'hai was never adopted for use within the TS.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Information on the membership of HPB and HSO in Sat
> B'hai
> > > comes
> > > > > from the
> > > > > > > archives of the Order which were (and, I believe, still
> are)
> > > in
> > > > > the Yarker
> > > > > > > archives in London, where I had access to them.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Dr Gregory Tillett
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
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