Theos-Talk Archives (November 2006 Message tt00351)

Carl,

For someone who does not adheres to CWL, you are showing yourself as rather  sympathetic towards the LCC and "Theosophical" Masonry.  I have no problem with that, but I try to see facts.  

The main point, in order not to have to discuss "real estate matters", is that:

1) LCC and Masonry are exceedingly 'influential' over the Adyar TS, and they, especially Masonry, play the role of "occult division" to the wide detriment of the ES.   The ES is commited to the TS, not so Masonry, which is committed but to itself and to the Leadbeaterian/ritualistic  view of  things.  


2) The most active and agressive Leadbeaterian Adyar TS members, who have been  consistently spreading rumours  and slanders against HPB for many years, are almost all directly linked to the LCC/Masonry.  

3) Although keeping a 'key role' in ritualisms,  Ms. Radha does not belong to this priestlike, aggressive  section of Adyar's neotheosophy.  She respects HPB although she can't stop the ritualists from cowardly attacking Theosophy and HPB's work.

Commentaries? 


Regards,   Carlos. 


De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Cópia:

Data:Mon, 06 Nov 2006 02:51:15 -0000

Assunto:Theos-World Re: To Konstantin on CWL & Adyar Masonry

> Carlos wrote: "LCC and co-masonry do not have their own buildings, 
> or ways to 'get' new people
> outside the TS. They have to use the TS buildings, and they 
> generally 'feed'
> or vampirize the Adyar TS in many ways, besides being a powerful 
> influence,
> though disguised, over its leaders. They use the Ts as a façade to 
> get
> neophites -- and they take people away from the ES, too, since they 
> offer
> "occult status" to people, and the ES has "much less possibilities" 
> in that
> department of Vanity."
> 
> That is not true! Maybe it is like that in Brazil, but I know for 
> sure, and it is easy to prove, that that not is the case in Europe 
> and Australia. The LCC and TS Adyar are totally separated. In some 
> place, they are connected hence same people belongs to both 
> organisations (like in Sydney), but far from every were. In Europe 
> the LCC today in most places has their own church buildings, and a 
> majority of the present LCC-bishops are not members of TS Adyar. In 
> Scandinavia and Germany today, only one bishop of five is a member 
> of TS Adyar. Here in Melbourne is only one active TS-Adyar member 
> (of ca 300) also member of the LCC, but she has not been active in 
> LCC for years. In Victoria are five LCC-priest (in different 
> churches), and none of them are members of TS Adyar. One of them has 
> been, but isn't that any longer.
> 
> There is only one "division" within Co-masonry (one Grand Lodge in 
> the US, and one in the UK) that are connected with TS Adyar, hence 
> they are working after Leadbeater's version of A.A.S.R. The other Co-
> Masonic orders are not, and don't want to.
> 
> Carl 
> 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "carlosaveline" 
> wrote:
> >
> > Konstantin,
> > 
> > Thanks for the info and clarifications. 
> > 
> > By the end of your helpful message, you say: 
> > 
> > 
> > "I understand the purpose of LCC and co-masonry as to theosophize 
> > masonry, not to masonize or catholocize theosophy."
> > 
> > Not at all, Konstantin. I have seen that in Brazil, in Adyar, in 
> the USA -- and have definite news about that from other countries, 
> as the UK, Netherlands, Australia, and so on. You can check it 
> yourself. 
> > 
> > LCC and co-masonry do not have their own buildings, or ways 
> to 'get' new people outside the TS. They have to use the TS 
> buildings, and they generally 'feed' or vampirize the Adyar TS in 
> many ways, besides being a powerful influence, though disguised, 
> over its leaders. They use the Ts as a façade to get neophites -- 
> and they take people away from the ES, too, since they offer "occult 
> status" to people, and the ES has "much less possibilities" in that 
> department of Vanity. 
> > 
> > It has been so that TS leaders, national and international, "have" 
> to be masons. A 'political need' to get to power. But masons 'do 
> not have' to be fellows of the Adyar TS. 
> > 
> > And this structure was created by Leadbeater, mainly to defend 
> himself from the short term karmic consequences of his 
> pedophile 'love for boys' , id est, scandals. (Pedophile practices 
> are crimes, as you know.) 
> > 
> > After Leabeater was rightfully expelled by Henry Olcott from the 
> Adyar TS due to his repeated abuse of children, he had to wait less 
> than a year for the death of Olcott -- and then he came back using 
> various rituals as 'hidden political shields' against the 
> consequences of his criminal actions. 
> > 
> > Then the 'esoteric popery' (as foreseen in the '1900 letter') was 
> created.
> > 
> > By the way: the '1900 letter' was received by A. Besant exactly 
> seven years before 1907, when Leadbeater came back and started 
> creating "theosophical" rituals. Seven years. A cycle. 
> > 
> > 
> > Regards, Carlos. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > 
> > Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > 
> > Cópia:
> > 
> > Data:Sat, 04 Nov 2006 15:53:08 -0000
> > 
> > Assunto:Theos-World Re: Konstantin and Russia
> > 
> > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "carlosaveline" 
> > > wrote:
> > > 
> > > > I would like to ask you a clarification about the meaning of 
> your 
> > > sentences below:
> > > 
> > > "I think it will don't work, because at least certain leaders 
> violate 
> > > principles expressed by Leadbeater in no lesser degree than 
> principles 
> > > expressed by Blavatsky."
> > > 
> > > I mean that those who impose worship and control obviously 
> follow some 
> > > their own principles, not the ideas of Leadbeater. They may use 
> some 
> > > his ideas for their purposes but disconnecting them from the 
> context, 
> > > it's exactly like some church leaders use some ideas from the 
> Gospel 
> > > for their selfish ends.
> > > 
> > > Below are some quotations from CWL. Probably they are not the 
> best, as 
> > > these are the first I could find, nevertheless they reflect 
> clearly 
> > > his views on the authority of the theosophical leaders and 
> freedom of 
> > > thought:
> > > 
> > > "I always said, "Don't believe anything just because I tell you,
> > > because I am liable to make mistakes just as any human being
> > > can." ...
> > > That is only my personal testimony in the matter, and I should
> > > not wish that any human being should base his convictions on
> > > that. He may take it; if he will, as evidence, but it is not
> > > proof; and he must remember that...
> > > 
> > > "The attainment of mental freedom was a necessary step in the 
> process 
> > > of human evolution"
> > > 
> > > "It therefore becomes the duty of every student of occultism to
> > > examine carefully the religious belief of his country and his
> > > period, in order that he may decide for himself what of it is
> > > based upon reason and what is merely a superstitious accretion.
> > > Most men never make any such effort..."
> > > 
> > > Can we say that those leaders who are accused 
> in "leadbeaterianism" 
> > > follow these principles?
> > > 
> > > > Are the LCC or the 'Theosophical Masonry' active there?
> > > 
> > > None of them.
> > > After all, rites play their role. Once a young man who formerly 
> was a 
> > > Satanist, came to our meetins. He disappointed in the Satanism, 
> but 
> > > our talks didn't satisfy him. It happened so that I gave a talk 
> about 
> > > freemasonry. He became deeply interested in it, and wanted to 
> join the 
> > > freemasons, where he was redirected to. I don't know whether he 
> was 
> > > accepted, as I am not a freemason myself; yet I think it would 
> be 
> > > better to direct him to the co-masonic lodge where masonry is 
> > > connected with a bit of theosophy, but unfortunately we have no 
> such 
> > > lodges in Russia.
> > > 
> > > I understand the purpose of LCC and co-masonry as to theosophize 
> > > masonery, not to masonize or catholocize theosophy.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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