Theos-Talk Archives (November 2006 Message tt00167)

Friends,

I would like to tell Daniel and Gregory that my "dividing line" in occult questions is not "ULT versus Adyar".   

Anyone who reads my texts can see that. 

My "dividing line" is "ritualism" (E.R., Masonry, etc.) versus "E.S. groups".

The reason, as I have often written here, is that ritualisms are classical devices for political control, while esoteric schools as inspired by HPB are designed to: 1) respect the autonomy of the student; 2) to provide him fuel for his self-knowledge and self-liberation. 

I hope Gregory Tillett and Daniel Caldwell can understand what I said in the above lines. 

Kindly observe I am not willing to discuss too much of the Adyar ES here, please.  And if I ever did, I did with respect for it. 

Got it?  

I hope this time I have shown the facts clearly enough.

Best regards,   Carlos. 






I
De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Cópia:

Data:Fri, 03 Nov 2006 03:24:52 -0000

Assunto:Theos-World Gregory Tillett on "Carlos and Privacy"

> Gregory,
> 
> Thank you very much for your posting at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/36890
> 
> I think you hit the nail on the head several times
> in what you write!!
> 
> For example, one of your observations is:
> 
> ============================================================
> Carlos is apparently quite happy for anything about the ER to be 
> published (regardless of the wishes of its members), but not for 
> equivalent material to appear about the DES.
> ============================================================
> 
> Some of my own correspondents who write me about what appears on 
> Theos- Talk have brought this very point up. They are even more 
> blunt than you and say that it appears Carlos has a double-standard.
> 
> Yes, it appears to me like Carlos has a double-standard but I'm open 
> to trying to understand his reasoning in this matter but so far ... I 
> don't know what his reasoning is.
> 
> Of course Carlos may now be a pledged member of the DES and is 
> obligated to refrain from even discussing these matters. Who knows?
> 
> And your other point is even more significant:
> 
> ==========================================================
> However, Carlos, you can't have it both ways. You complain that people
> (like me) make statements without providing evidence. I then suggest 
> how evidence might be obtained, and you claim this would violate the 
> privacy of the organizations concerned!
> 
> So - you either accept that scholars and other commentators who are 
> denied access to sources or information about organizations will be 
> left to engage in speculation without evidence, or you provide 
> information and give access to sources.
> =========================================================
> 
> First of all, I'm sure Carlos will not be providing you with the 
> information and giving you access to DES sources! :)
> 
> I remember years ago that when I started questioning Leadbeater and 
> his history, etc., that my inquiries were meet with all sorts of 
> strange reactions. I mean at the time I thought they were strange!
> 
> I vividly remember when your biography of Leadbeater was first 
> published. Some of my Leadbeater contacts were almost in a crazed 
> state over the book. The typical response I got was that what you 
> wrote was one-sided, biased, ..."oh he's just a scholar" or "he's an 
> outsider" and Tillett didn't have all the facts or didn't want to 
> present all the facts, etc. etc.
> 
> But when I then said well what are the facts, etc. that Tillett left 
> out, they would go either silent or "get vague" or say well the real 
> facts will some out some day! Very few facts were revealed in other 
> words.
> 
> I find the SAME kind of reactions when I have been researching the 
> claims made by Crosbie and about him. 
> 
> It's like the same MINDSET or GROUP THINK is at work - in regards to 
> both Crosbie and Leadbeater. And this can be applied to other 
> subjects and groups, too.
> 
> My general impression/conclusion is that in most if not all of the 
> Theosophical organizations when a student or inquirer or researcher 
> starts asking too many questions, starts "challenging" some of the 
> statements or assumptions of the group involved, starts asking for 
> material that may be considered "controversial", etc. etc., then that 
> person starts being viewed as a "troublemaker", is marginalized, is 
> considered to be an "outsider". He's rocking the boat, etc. etc.
> 
> Walter Carrithers found this to be the typical reaction of the 
> theosophical organizations. The various groups and "officials" loved 
> Walter's work when it was confined to criticism of Coulomb and 
> Hodgson. But when Walter started turning his attention to some of 
> the claims, etc. of the various organizations, he found all sort of 
> roadblocks, etc. set in his way.
> 
> The MINDSET or GROUPTHINK of the particular organization will resist 
> such individuals. And I think this applies to most organizations 
> whether theosophical, religiious or otherwise.
> 
> In the various libraries I've worked at, I see that same group 
> dynamics at work. In other words, the STATUS QUO must be preserved, 
> whatever the status quo may be.
> 
> I'm straying from the subject and running out of time right now but I 
> think there's a lot here and maybe one day soon I will try to jot 
> down more of my thoughts on this and related subjects.
> 
> Daniel
> http://hpb.cc
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> Yahoo! Groups Links
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