Theos-Talk Archives (November 2006 Message tt00150)

Gregory,

Thank you very much for your posting at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/36890

I think you hit the nail on the head several times
in what you write!!

For example, one of your observations is:

============================================================
Carlos is apparently quite happy for anything about the ER to be 
published (regardless of the wishes of its members), but not for 
equivalent material to appear about the DES.
============================================================

Some of my own correspondents who write me about what appears on 
Theos- Talk have brought this very point up.  They are even more 
blunt than you and say that it appears Carlos has a double-standard.

Yes, it appears to me like Carlos has a double-standard but I'm open 
to trying to understand his reasoning in this matter but so far ... I 
don't know what his reasoning is.

Of course Carlos may now be a pledged member of the DES and is 
obligated to refrain from even discussing these matters.  Who knows?

And your other point is even more significant:

==========================================================
However, Carlos, you can't have it both ways. You complain that people
(like me) make statements without providing evidence. I then suggest 
how evidence might be obtained, and you claim this would violate the 
privacy of the organizations concerned!

So - you either accept that scholars and other commentators who are 
denied access to sources or information about organizations will be 
left to engage in speculation without evidence, or you provide 
information and give access to sources.
=========================================================

First of all, I'm sure Carlos will not be providing you with the 
information and giving you access to DES sources!  :)

I remember years ago that when I started questioning Leadbeater and 
his history, etc., that my inquiries were meet with all sorts of 
strange reactions.  I mean at the time I thought they were strange!

I vividly remember when your biography of Leadbeater was first 
published.  Some of my Leadbeater contacts were almost in a crazed 
state over the book.  The typical response I got was that what you 
wrote was one-sided, biased, ..."oh he's just a scholar" or "he's an 
outsider" and Tillett didn't have all the facts or didn't want to 
present all the facts, etc. etc.

But when I then said well what are the facts, etc. that Tillett left 
out, they would go either silent or "get vague" or say well the real 
facts will some out some day!  Very few facts were revealed in other 
words.

I find the SAME kind of reactions when I have been researching the 
claims made by Crosbie and about him. 

It's like the same MINDSET or GROUP THINK is at work - in regards to 
both Crosbie and Leadbeater. And this can be applied to other 
subjects and groups, too.

My general impression/conclusion is that in most if not all of the 
Theosophical organizations when a student or inquirer or researcher 
starts asking too many questions, starts "challenging" some of the 
statements or assumptions of the group involved, starts asking for 
material that may be considered "controversial", etc. etc., then that 
person starts being viewed as a "troublemaker", is marginalized, is 
considered to be an "outsider".  He's rocking the boat, etc. etc.

Walter Carrithers found this to be the typical reaction of the 
theosophical organizations.  The various groups and "officials" loved 
Walter's work when it was confined to criticism of Coulomb and 
Hodgson.  But when Walter started turning his attention to some of 
the claims, etc. of the various organizations, he found all sort of 
roadblocks, etc. set in his way.

The MINDSET or GROUPTHINK of the particular organization will resist 
such individuals.  And I think this applies to most organizations 
whether theosophical, religiious or otherwise.

In the various libraries I've worked at, I see that same group 
dynamics at work.  In other words, the STATUS QUO must be preserved, 
whatever the status quo may be.

I'm straying from the subject and running out of time right now but I 
think there's a lot here and maybe one day soon I will try to jot 
down more of my thoughts on this and related subjects.

Daniel
http://hpb.cc