Theos-Talk Archives (November 2006 Message tt00025)

As to these rumours about Rober Crosbie and the ULT origin, I still see nothing but second hand, or rather tenth hand hearsay.  No real sources.


Trees can be evaluated by their fruits. 

As to Hargrove's ES, I can't have any sure opinion.   

It seems this is groundless old stuff  and gossips from people critical to those who do not think like them... 

The key thing today is all real HPB and Theosophy students have much more in common than otherwise.

It is the game of 'indoor enemies' to explore differences among Point Loma, Pasadena, ULT, etc.  


Regards,   Carlos. 




De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Cópia:

Data:Wed, 01 Nov 2006 04:44:57 -0000

Assunto:Theos-World Re: Hargrove's ES

> Greg -
> 
> Actually John Cooper told me that Mrs. Griscom was their ES Head. He 
> also identified her as the writer who used the pseudonym " Cave' " 
> in the small booklets entitled 'Fragments'. One can see this name 
> used in 'The Theosophical Quarterly'. I do not have any reference 
> for this, nor remember if John gave me some idea of reference at the 
> time but it certainly made sense. I had been interested in finding 
> out who " Cave' " was and asked him one day during a vist in the 
> late 1980's I think, while we were searching through Point Loma 
> archives for various historical documents. With some investigation 
> it should become more clear.
> 
> Regarding Point Loma esoteric groups. Regarding the Esoteric Section 
> with its three degrees under dePurucker:
> 
> Though Col. Arthur Conger is alleged to have written the letter 
> closing it and it is typed by someone and has his signature. It was 
> written less than a couple of weeks before his death when he could 
> neither speak nor sign his name from the effects of severe 
> Parkinson's (so the question is who actually wrote this 
> letter ?.....)and also did he or others have any authority to do 
> so ? Certainly from the point of view of the respective secretaries 
> and officers of the three groups appointed by dePurucker, Boris de 
> Zirkoff, Henry T. Edge, Emmett Small and Helen Harris, Col. Conger 
> did not have any such authority nor did James Long, as these 
> individuals were entrusted with their responsibilities by de 
> Purucker. So now so many years later it can be said truthfully that 
> these original Point Loma esoteric groups did not close then, but 
> paradoxically continued though not explicitly as a formal 
> organization...
> 
> Regarding other esoteric groups from the lineage that went from 
> Conger to William Hartley and then in Holland to D.J.P. Kok and now 
> to Herman Vermeulen or in Germany from Hartley to Herman Knobloch to 
> Ms. Ackerman I do not know directly if they have any Esoteric 
> groups, but I would say it is unlikely. They do consider themselves 
> to be 'esoteric lineages' going back through Point Loma to Blavatsky 
> but I have not heard that they have any formal esoteric or secret 
> grops or teachings.
> 
> About Crosbie leaving Point Loma
> 
> I did find last year and passed on to a few 'ULT associates' some 
> documentation Iverson Harris put together about Crosbie leaving 
> Point Loma. (now of course it is packed away in my 'attic' and I 
> cannot immediately access it as like yourself I DO need to have some 
> space to walk between while working on different studies and 
> projects....and sorry to say ULT history is hardly my favorite 
> exciting passtime !) If I remember correctly the results were quite 
> mundane. Crosbie was having monetary difficulties and was one of the 
> very few at Point Loma who received a small monetary stipend for the 
> work he did. This was not sufficient for the needs of he, his wife 
> and very young child, so he elected to leave. This Crosbie had 
> already decided and when Tingley found out she wished he would stay, 
> but did not attempt to change his mind. It is quite probable that 
> all the stories about a conflict between Tingley and Crosbie evolved 
> AFTER Crosbie initiated the ULT, though even in this I have never 
> seen anything written from Tingley or any Point Loma Theosophist at 
> the time nor even heard anything anecdotal said about Robert 
> Crosbie ! From the Point Loma side as far as I know, nothing was 
> even written or said when the ULT published "The Theosophical 
> Movement: 1875 -1925" which contains much that is factually 
> incorrect regarding Point Loma and the Judge - Tingely - Crosbie 
> history. ( Daniel having posted the documents for all to view 
> certainly helps clarify this historical era )...now with the 
> history clarified it would really be a step forward if the 'ULT-
> Theosophy Company' would really withdraw and re-write their 
> embarrassing so-called 'history' which only makes them look 
> backward, cultish and ignorant !
> 
> more later......
> 
> Ken Small - Point Loma Publcations
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, gregory@... wrote:
> >
> > I do not know if Julia Keightley was the OH - as far as I know, 
> his/her
> > identity was not disclosed. But I can provide a little background 
> on
> > Hargrove's ES.
> > 
> > Following the death of W.Q. Judge on March 21, 1896, Ernest temple
> > Hargrove appeared to lead the campaign to bring Katherine Tingley 
> in as
> > his successor, but shortly afterwards broke with Tingley, and 
> resigned as
> > President of the Theosophical Society in America in 1898, and led a
> > breakaway of some two hundred members from the Society which Mrs 
> Tingley
> > then headed.
> > 
> > The Society which Hargrove established, and then led, had its own 
> ES, and
> > he wrote to Mrs Tingley telling her "by Order of the master you 
> have
> > ceased to be the outer Head of the E.S.T. in the interior and true 
> sense. 
> > The Outer Head to follow you has already been appointed by the 
> Master."
> > 
> > In 1908 this Society became "The Theosophical Society with Its
> > Headquarters Based in New York", and published "The Theosophical 
> Forum"
> > and "The Theosophical Quarterly". The Society remained active 
> until it
> > underwent "indrawal" in 1935.
> > 
> > The ES was administered from December, 1898, by a Reference 
> Committee
> > consisting of A.P. Buchman, J.D. Buck, George Coffin, C.A. Griscom,
> > Charles Johnston, Archibald Keightley and William Ludlow. The 
> identity of
> > the OH was never made known to the members, although ES documents 
> prepared
> > by him or her were distributed to them. These included Aids and
> > Suggestions (following the 7 papers previously issued by Judge) and
> > Subsidiary Paper D (follow Judge's Subsidiary Papers A, B and C).
> > 
> > In September, 1900, the Reference Committee proposed four courses 
> of study
> > for members: "The First Course provided a comprehensive knowledge 
> of
> > Theosophical philosophy by means of studying the exoteric 
> Theosophic works
> > in the light of E.S.T. Instructions 1, 2 and 3. The Second Course 
> taught a
> > more advanced philosophy based upon "The Secret Doctrine" and other
> > metaphysical work with the study being based upon the E.S.T. 
> Aids and
> > Suggestions. The Third Course will use Instructions 4, 5 and 6 of 
> the
> > E.T.S. plus other papers to be issued to the School plus some 
> unpublished
> > letters of the Master K.H. The emphasis in this course was 
> to the above
> > with the Upanishads, Veda, Puranas, Bible and other sacred texts. 
> The
> > fourth Course was to be based upon the devotional side of 
> Theosophy and
> > was to study "Light on the Path", "The Voice of the 
> Silence", "Letters
> > That Have Helped Me", "Through the Gates of Gold" and other 
> devotional
> > texts. This course was intended to lead to the development of the 
> Inner
> > Man."
> > 
> > An examining Board sent examination papers to members, and 
> assessed the
> > results.
> > 
> > At the Theosophical Society Convention held on April 30, 1905, it 
> was
> > reported that the School had moved from the phase of Instruction 
> under
> > HPB and WQJ to that of Discipline under the present OH. The School 
> appears
> > to have followed the Society into its period of "indrawal" in 1935.
> > 
> > 
> > Dr Gregory Tillett
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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