Theos-Talk Archives (August 2006 Message tt00554)

My 2 cents:

Animals are not bound to Karma, as humans are.  

Animals are Holy Spiritual and of the God-head

Humans are Holy Spiritual and of the God-head and also Holy Logoic -
or have the selfhood to ask "who am I".

Scientifically speaking, we could classify the differences between 
animals and humans by comparing the levels of Consciencness: 
starting from crystals, to vegetation, to insect and animals and 
then to humans as:

Animals have the sensitivity (like that of crystals responding to 
sound etc), the sensibility of plants and trees responding to light, 
air etc, and primarily they have instinct.

Humans have sensitivity (like that of crystals responding to sound 
etc), the sensibility of plants and trees responding to light, air 
etc, and they have instinct but humans also have the "self-awareness 
or the selfhood - which we Chistians call the Logos, or being Holy 
Logoic.

Logos Student


--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, leonmaurer@... wrote:
>
> Hi Dallas,
> 
> Assuming you are referring to the ideas of "morphogenetic fields" 
as the 
> theoretical scientific basis of evolution as well as psychic 
phenomena, etc. -- 
> the only reference I could recommend, besides my ABC theory -- 
which calls these 
> "morphogenetic" fields "coenergetic hyperspace fields" -- is the 
book, New 
> Science of Life by Rupert Sheldrake.   Also   see, 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rupert_Sheldrake
> 
> As for the rest, I think most of it is covered by the HPB 
references you gave 
> in the Secret Doctrine -- from which all of this can be logically 
deduced.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> Lenny
> 
> 
> In a message dated 8/20/06 8:38:48 PM, dalval14@... writes:
> 
> 
> > 8/20/2006 5:13 PM
> > 
> > Lenny thanks,
> > 
> > Sounds reasonable.   Are there any actual references to this ?
> > 
> > I found in SECRET DOCTRINE:
> > 
> > --------------------------------------
> > 
> >     Courtesy of THEOSOPHICAL PUBLISHING HOUSE, Pasadena  ]
> > 
> > BRAIN
> > 
> > activity electric phenomena I 85
> > pe & human II 193n, 646n, 661, 676, 682
> > Atlantean, & nervous centers II 761
> > -change & thought I 124n
> > Chochmah [Hokhmah] or I 352
> > dreamless sleep & I 266
> > eyes grow fr within II 295
> > gray matter of, & sexual acts II 296
> > heart &, of sun I 541
> > human, needed for speech II 661
> > intellect & II 301
> > mammalian II 301
> > normal & abnormal states of II 296
> > our, has softened II 250
> > of Paleolithic man II 686n
> > particles record thought I 104
> > physical, forgets II 424
> > reacts on pineal gland II 296, 301-2
> > registers memory II 301
> > size of, & intellect II 168n, 522-3
> > sound & I 554, 565
> > -stuff on physical plane I 291
> > 
> > 
> > Cerebellum, seat of animal proclivities II 297-301
> > Cerebral Hemispheres, forepart of, & human intellect II 301
> > Cerebration, & chylification I 297
> > 
> > 
> > ======================================
> > 
> > Best wishesm
> > 
> > Dallas
> > 
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
----
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: LeonMaurer@... [mailto:LeonMaurer@...]
> > Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 12:39 PM
> > To: study@...
> > Subject: [bn-study] Re: Difference between humans and animals?
> > 
> > Dallas, scribe, et al,
> > 
> > Please accept my original answers to Scribe's question as being 
with respect
> > to the physical evolutionary changes that would be obvious from a
> > "Darwinist" or scientific materialist's point of view -- which 
denies the
> > existence of the higher order astral and mental fields separate 
from (but
> > connected metaphysically to) the physical brain itself.
> > 
> > Apparently, then, with respect to Dallas' references to the 
theosophical
> > truths -- we could say that Man's expanded brain might come 
first -- since
> > the "lighting up of Manas" or mind of the former animal-man 
would induce
> > thought, which would excite the brain's neurons and cause the 
cerebellum to
> > expand and grow accordingly. 
> > 
> > This new thinking ability, both rational and intuitive, would, 
in turn,
> > generate new ideas that would eventually require the capability 
for
> > producing imagined  and mentally planned artifacts such as 
clothing,
> > weapons, and shelters that would be inspired by Man's physical 
needs for
> > surviving in a hostile world -- further accelerating the growth 
of the
> > cerebellum. 
> > 
> > Thus, the evolutionary changes due to mental thought imagery 
that would aid
> > in the "survival of the fittest" through the use of these 
artifacts, would
> > also, through such focussed visualizations and willful intent, 
transform the
> > astral field energies into magnetic holograph images that would 
start
> > attracting physical matter so as to form the necessary changes 
in the
> > physical form -- such as the opposed thumb necessary for 
grasping and making
> > tools to use in making those artifacts.
> > 
> > (Incidentally, this manner of evolutionary change and growth -- 
since it is
> > analogous and  corresponding to the genesis of the universe from 
the
> > absolute zero-point "singularity" -- may answer the question," 
Which came
> > first, the chicken or the egg.":-)
> > 
> > The encoding of these changes in the surviving DNA would then 
spread through
> > the human population coenergetically (i.e., by inductive 
resonance
> > processes) by means of the "morphogenetic fields," such as those 
described
> > by Ruppert Sheldrake -- which would be analogous to the higher 
order,
> > coadunate but not consubstantial coenergetic fields of the 
scientifically
> > consistent ABC theory that is based on the identical theosophical
> > metaphysics described in the book of Dzyan and outlined in the 
Secret
> > Doctrine.
> > 
> > Hope this adds some additional clarity to the way evolution 
works.
> > 
> > Lenny
> > 
> > In a message dated 8/16/06 11:32:46 AM, dalval14@... writes:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 8/16/2006 5:40 AM
> > 
> > Friends:
> > 
> > May I observe in regard to your discussion?
> > 
> > As I see it:  I quote from what you write :
> > 
> > If the "the most important physical change that distinguishes 
Man from
> > the animals was the development of the opposed thumb. " is 
chosen as a
> > physical criterion, then that unique power or intelligence, or 
consciousness
> > which controls and directs the "opposed thumb" ought to be 
identified and
> > investigated.  How and where does it arise.? Who guides it?  
If "I" am the
> > perceiver and director -- then I am always responsible -- and I 
weave my
> > personal Karma from all the choices made in the past, and being 
made now by
> > an act of my will.  When was this change to conscious perception 
and the
> > potentiality for a responsive choice started for we -- who are 
the MANASIC
> > MONADS ?  THEOSOPHY calls it "The LIGHTING UP OF MANAS."   [ 
Quotes:
> > 
> > 
> > "...the Manasa Devas who endowed man with the consciousness of 
his immortal
> > soul:  that consciousness which hinders man "from foreseeing 
death," and
> > makes him know he is immortal.
> > ( Fn.: --  The monad of the animal is as immortal as that of 
man, yet the
> > brute knows nothing of this;  it lives an animal life of 
sensation just as
> > the first human would have lived, when attaining physical 
development in the
> > Third Race, had it not been for the Agnishwatta, and the Manasa 
Pitris.")
> > [Myth of Prometheus, further explained.]        SD II 525
> > 
> > 
> > "Every form on earth and every speck (atom) in Space strives in 
its efforts
> > towards self-formation to follow the model placed for it in 
the "Heavenly
> > Man"...Its [atom's] involution and evolution, its external and 
internal
> > growth and development, have all one and the same object--man;  
man is the
> > highest physical and ultimate form on this earth;  the MONAD in 
the absolute
> > totality and awakened condition--as the culmination of the divine
> > incarnations on Earth."        S D I 183
> > 
> > 
> > "...a law inexorable, by which man lifts himself by degrees from 
the state
> > of a beast to the glory of a God. The rapidity with which this 
is done is
> > different with every living soul;  and the wretches who hug the 
primitive
> > task master,  misery, choose to go slowly through the       
tread-mill
> > course which may give them innumerable lives of physical 
sensation-- whether
> > pleasant or painful, well-beloved because tangible to the very 
lowest
> > senses.  The Theosophist
> > who desires to enter upon occultism takes some of Nature's 
privileges into
> > his own hands, by that very wish, and soon discovers that 
experiences come
> > to him with double quick rapidity.  His business is then to 
recognize that
> > he is under--to him--new and swifter law of Development, and to 
snatch at
> > the lessons that come to him...He sees that it takes a very wise 
man to do
> > good works without danger of doing incalculable harm.  A highly 
developed
> > adept in life may grasp the nettle, and by his great intuitive 
powers, know
> > whom to relieve from pain and whom to leave in the mire that is 
their best
> > teacher...None of us know the darkness which lurks in the depths 
of our own
> > being until some strange and unfamiliar experience rouses the 
whole being
> > into action...The ignorant doing of good works may be vitally 
injurious...it
> > is not the spirit of self-sacrifice, or of devotion, or of 
desire to help
> > that is lacking, but the strength to acquire knowledge and power 
and
> > intuition, so that the deeds done shall really be worthy of the
> > "Buddha-Christ" spirit."          HPB ART, I, p.76-7
> > 
> > 
> > "The whole individuality is centred in the three middle 
Principles or third
> > (MANAS), and fifth (ASTRAL BODY) principles.  During earthly 
life it is all
> > in the fourth (KAMA-MANAS), the center of energy, volition--
will...the
> > individuality survives...to run its seven-fold and upward course 
[ it ] has
> > to assimilate to itself the eternal-life power residing but in 
the seventh
> > (ATMA), and then blend the three (4th, 5th & 7th) into one--the 
6th
> > (BUDDHI).  Those who succeed in doing so become Buddhas, Dhyan 
Chohans,
> > etc...  The chief object of our struggle and initiations is to 
achieve this
> > union while yet on this earth."    M L  (Barker), pp. 77-8
> > 
> > 
> > "...unless the higher Self or Ego gravitates towards its Sun--
the Monad--the
> > lower Ego, or personal Self, will have the upper hand in every 
case.  For it
> > is this Ego, with its fierce selfishness and animal desire to 
live a
> > Senseless life (Tanha), which is the "maker of the tabernacle," 
as Buddha
> > calls it in Dhammapada..."     SD II 110
> > 
> > 
> > "...[the Agnishwatta Pitris] were destined to incarnate as the 
Egos of the
> > forthcoming crop of Mankind.  The human Ego is neither Atman nor 
Buddhi, but
> > the higher Manas:  the intellectual fruition and the 
efflorescence of the
> > intellectual self-conscious Egotism--in the higher spiritual 
sense.  The
> > ancient works refer to it as Karana Sarira on the plane of the 
Sutratma,
> > which is the golden thread on which, like beads, the various 
personalities
> > of this higher Ego are strung...these beings were RETURNING 
NIRVANEES, from
> > preceding Maha-Manvantaras--ages of incalculable 
duration..."        S D
> > II 79
> > 
> > 
> > "...the "Ego" in man is a monad that has gathered to itself 
innumerable
> > experiences through aeons of time, slowly unfolding its latent 
potencies
> > through plane after plane of matter.  It is hence called 
the "eternal
> > pilgrim."
> > 
> > The Manasic, or mind principle, is cosmic and universal.  It is 
the creator
> > of all forms, and the basis of all law in nature.  Not so with
> > consciousness.  Consciousness is a condition of the monad as a 
result of
> > embodiment in matter and the dwelling in a physical form.
> > Self-consciousness, which from the animal plane looking upward 
is the
> > beginning of perfection, from the divine plane looking downwards 
is the
> > perfection of selfishness and the curse of separateness.  it is 
the "world
> > of illusion" that man has created for himself.  "Maya is the 
perceptive
> > faculty of every Ego which considers itself a Unit, separate 
from and
> > independent of the One Infinite and Eternal Sat or 'be-ness'," 
(SD I 329)
> > The "eternal pilgrim" must therefore mount higher, and flee from 
the plane
> > of self-consciousness it has struggled so hard to reach."    
WQJ  Art I
> > p. 29
> > 
> > 
> > ". man's spirit while not individual per se, yet preserves its 
distinct
> > individuality in Paranirvana, owing to the accumulation in it of 
the
> > aggregates, or skandhas that have survived after each death, 
from the
> > highest faculties of the Manas. 
> > 
> > The most spiritual--i.e., the highest and divinest aspirations 
of every
> > personality follow Buddhi and the Seventh Principle into 
Devachan (Swarga)
> > after the death of the Monad...the individuality of the spirit-
soul...is
> > preserved to the end of the great cycle (Maha-Manwantara) when 
each Ego
> > enters Paranirvana, or is merged in Parabrahm...however long 
the "night of
> > Brahma" or even the Universal Pralaya...yet, when it ends, the 
same
> > individual Divine Monad resumes its majestic path of evolution, 
though on a
> > higher, hundredfold perfected and more pure chain of earths 
(266) than
> > before, and brings with it all the essence of compound 
spiritualities from
> > its previous countless rebirths."    HPB ARTICLES  III  265-6
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > "... SPIRITUAL SOUL OR BUDDHI, in close union with Manas, the
> > mind-principle, without which it is no Ego at all, but only the 
Atmic
> > Vehicle. (passive agent)..."Buddhi becomes conscious by the 
accretions it
> > gets from Manas after every new incarnation an death of man."    
(SD I 244)
> > [see HPB Art. III, 265 ]    Key p. 176
> > 
> > 
> > "BUDDHI...The faculty of cognizing the channel through which 
divine
> > knowledge reaches the Ego, the discernment of good and 
evil, "divine
> > consciousness,"  "Spiritual Soul,"  the vehicle of Atma."  SD I 
xix
> > [see also SD I 17 119, 244, 570, 453;  Key 175-6]    
> > 
> > 
> > "OUR CONSCIOUSNESS IS ONE AND NOT MANY, nor different from other
> > consciousness.  It is not waking consciousness, sleeping 
consciousness, or
> > any other but consciousness itself... the consciousness of each 
person is
> > the Witness or Spectator of the actions and experiences of every 
state we
> > are in or pass through.  It therefore follows that the waking 
condition of
> > the mind is not separate consciousness. 
> > 
> > The one consciousness pierces up and down through all the states 
or planes
> > of Being, and serves to uphold the memory...of each state's 
experiences."
> > Gita Notes, p. 98-9
> > 
> > ----------------------------------------
> > 
> > The "opposed thumb" is a phenomenon of the mental idea of 
holding and
> > manipulating; and to this a "purpose" has to be identified at 
the root of
> > this or any action.  The quality of any "purpose" would depend 
on whether it
> > is "SELFISH" or "UNSELFISH." 
> > 
> > The MIND coupled with our Kamic (desires and passions) nature 
makes this
> > possible.  [The "animals" have the faculty, at their stage of 
progress /
> > evolution, of "instinct" but not of that continued identity we 
call mind (or
> > MANAS). [It is the MANAS that reincarnates.  -- see KEY TO 
THEOSOPHY (HPB),
> > some of the advanced individual animal MONADS, HPB states, had 
reached the
> > stage where MANAS could be lit up. 
> > 
> > The PURPOSE of such (or of any human action adds the MORAL 
FACTOR.  Mankind
> > as a whole is in the stage / plane of MIND DEVELOPMENT --  see 
PATANJALI'S
> > YOGA SUTRAS.  It is individualized.  See tables of "human 
principles" in KEY
> > TO THEOSOPHY (HPB) at pp. 91-2, 135-6, 195-6 and the Intervening
> > explanations of the entire process and purpose of  evolution -- 
where the
> > '"PHYSICAL" is shown  to be powered by the karmic motives and 
our present
> > choices / will.  These are resident and dominant in the 
principles of Kama
> > and Mind  (Kama and Manas).
> > 
> > The "moral factor is divisible into the "virtues"  which are 
dual: SELFISH
> > and UNSELFISH, and these distinguish BROTHERHOOD and care for 
others, or the
> > reverse. This in turn invokes not only the monadic, individual 
KARMA, but
> > affects the whole Universe  (composed of  innumerable 
sensitive "life-atoms"
> > or MONADS. 
> > 
> > We are never "alone."  [All our personal thoughts, feelings and 
acts are
> > indelibly recorded by the Lipika on the tablets of the Akasa.] 
But we are
> > surrounded with innumerable living MONADS -- each at their own 
stage of
> > self-development and progress, and all advance (each is affected 
by other
> > MONADS) individually towards the common central and ultimate 
Goal: Supreme
> > PERFECTION in Wisdom and "wise action." (see BHAGAVAD GITA  
(Krishna)  for a
> > treatise on this.)
> > 
> > Best wishes
> > 
> > Dallas
> > 
> > -----------------------------
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Scribe
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 7:28 PM
> > Subject: Re: Difference between humans and animals?
> > 
> > Leonardo,
> > 
> > Thanks so much, that was just great, just the kind of 
information I wanted.
> > And in addition you also hit the nail on the head with problems 
the ID ers
> > have with any sort of "proof" that would satisfy their critics.
> > 
> > Again, "right on"--
> > 
> > Best Regards,
> > Don Ridgway
> > "scribe"
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------------------
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> > 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>