Theos-Talk Archives (August 2006 Message tt00158)

8/3/2006 10:45 AM

 

Dear Friend:

 

Please see insertions in  [  ]  brackets marked DTB.  

 

You say you have no time to study the mass of material offered so uniquely
in THEOSOPHY . I agree that it is quite overwhelming - but this is not a
quick crib.  It is a lengthy study once that one is convinced of the logic
of the records.  To assure yourself of this, will require time and effort. 

 

None of us can afford any bias or prejudice - we have to be as impartial and
thorough as we can manage - if we are engaging in this as a serous quest.

 

The Index I copy below will afford a synopsis of the subject.

 

 

 

You ask for further comments on:

 

"That for long ages, the "Wise Men" 

 

-----------------------------------------------

 

DTB     [MAHATMAS, SAGES, BUDDHAS, BODHISATTVAS, ETC.  --  DTB] 

 

of the Fifth [ARYAN  --  DTB] Race  

 

DTB     [ our MONADIC EGOS may have been part of this effort as Their
DISCIPLES and PUPILS  --  our HIGHER SELF (ATMA,) is immortal. 

 

The designations such as RACE,  SUB-RACE,  FAMILY RACE, etc. indicate a vast
period of time in the total evolutionary scheme.  We, as immortal EGOS
(Spirit-Minds) reincarnated in those periods and have undergone the
training. teaching and learning relative to that past physical environment.
-DTB]

 

-------------------------------

 

of the stock saved and rescued from the last cataclysm and shifting of
continents, had passed their lives in learning, not teaching. 

 

-------------------------------

DTB     [ As to Enoch, Thoth or Hermes, Orpheus and Kadmus, these are all
generic names, branches and offshoots of the seven primordial sages
(incarnated Dhyan Chohans or Devas, in illusive, not mortal bodies) who
taught Humanity all it knew, and whose earliest disciples assumed their
master's names. This custom passed from the Fourth to the Fifth Race. Hence
the sameness of the traditions about Hermes (of whom Egyptologists count
five) Enoch, etc., they are all inventors of letters; NONE OF THEM DIES BUT
STILL LIVES, AND THEY ARE THE FIRST INITIATORS INTO, AND FOUNDERS OF THE
MYSTERIES. The Genesis of Enoch disappeared only very lately among the
Kabalists. Guillaume Postel saw it. It was most certainly in a great measure
a transcript from the books of Hermes, and far anterior to the Books of
Moses, as Eliphas Levi tells his readers."  S D  II  267 fn  DTB]

DTB     ["The Third Race was pre-eminently the bright shadow, at first, of
the gods, whom tradition exiles on Earth after the allegorical war in
Heaven; which became still more allegorical on Earth, for it was the war
between spirit and matter. This war will last till the inner and divine man
adjusts his outer terrestrial self to his own spiritual nature. Till then
the dark and fierce passions of the former will be at eternal feud with his
master, the Divine Man. But the animal will be tamed one day, because its
nature will be changed, and harmony will reign once more between the two as
before the "Fall," when even mortal man was created by the Elements and was
not born. "  S D   II  268 ]

----------------------------------

How did they do so? 

 

It is answered: by checking, testing, and verifying in every department of
nature the traditions of old by the independent visions of great adepts;
i.e., men who have developed and perfected their physical, mental, psychic,
and spiritual organisations to the utmost possible degree. 

 

DTB     [ see S D   I  327, 341,   II  136, 191  --  DTB]

 

-------------------------------------------

 

No vision of one adept was accepted till it was checked and confirmed by the
visions-so 
obtained as to stand as independent evidence-of other adepts, and by
centuries of experiences." (SD, I, Summing Up, p. 273)  

 

DTB     [ see S D  I  p. 39  -- DTB]

 

------------------------------------------------

 

 

My understanding is subject to review of course. The quotes I offer are
confirmation elsewhere in the SECRET DOCTRINE of those you  quoted and asked
about.

 

--------------------------------------------

 

                        Courtesy of Pasadena Theosophical Publishing House  

 

>From the SECRET DOCTRINE 

Race(s). See also Humanity, Man, Mankind,

Adamic, our II 6 
androgynous II 96, 134 
astral, & environment II 157 
astral doubles, were II 115 
Bamian statues record II 339-40 
black, brown, older (Winchell) II 695 
w bones & Adamic rib II 193 
born fr gods, universal concept I 323 
born, grow, die II 443-4 
cataclysms &, transition II 500n, 703 
complexions of II 178, 227 &n, 249-50, 282 
condensation of II 151 
creation of II 86-108 
cycles & I 642; II 330-1, 780 
destroyed by fire, water II 725-6 
differences betw II 103, 249-50, 607n 
divine, our, sprang fr II 365 
dying out of II 779-80 
each, has its deva II 538 
each, under a planet II 23-4 


earliest, needed no elements II 160 
early, boneless, ethereal II 149 
early, had no egos II 610 
early Lemurian, roots of mammals II 736 
early, sinless, karma-less II 610 




effects of isolation on II 425 
elect, & highest dhyanis II 276 
ethereal, incorporeal II 194 
ethereal to material & back again II 697 
every, adapted to surroundings II 46 
every, exalts its deity II 507 


evolution of, & embryo II 187-9, 659 
evolution of, performed in Mysteries II 419n 


extinct, near Tchertchen I xxxiii-iv 
fifth, humanity & Mahabharata II 139 


first, & Manu II 307, 311 
first & second, not physical II 108 
first, had three elements II 107, 113 
first, origin of II 86-7 
first, or "self-born" II 164, 198 
first, sexless II 134 
first speaking, or Ad-i II 452 


first three, & three orders of mammals II 713-14 
first two, disappeared in progeny II 609n 
first two, knew no death II 609 
first two, many-shaped II 635 
first, were created, destroyed II 704 
first, without fire II 107, 113 


five, & four Adams II 457, 503-4 
five [in Vishnu Purana] II 322 

fourth developed speech II 198-200 
garments of, (Zohar) II 315 
giant II 754-6 
of half-human monsters II 192 
hermaphrodite (separating) II 134 
human, can breed together II 195 
hybrid, left by third II 714 
Indo-European, height of II 749 
inferior, explained II 162, 249n, 425 
inferior, not always older II 721 
initiates know history of II 133 
initiates veil information re early II 715n 
inner senses atrophied in early II 294 
intellect dormant in early I 210 
intermediate, evolved II 275 

Lemuria's accursed, lived in jungles II 319 
many, disappear without trace II 437 

mindless, some early, remained II 161-2 
mixture of, makes new races II 444 
more ancient than mammals II 56n 
once an organism without organs II 154

 
our, has reached fifth subrace II 471n 


overlap each other II 433n 
oviparous even now II 131 
phoenix stands for, -cycle II 617 

polygenetic origin of II 168, 249 
pralaya of a II 404 
 
predestination in history of I 641 
primeval, huge, filamentoid II 151 
primitive, may be old, relapsed II 721-2 
primitive, was boneless I 583n 

 
red & blue, destroyed II 192 
relics of distant, will be found I 609 
rise & fall of, & writing II 442 

savage & civilized, in all ages II 716 
self-, sweat-, & egg-born II 30, 68, 116-17, 172-3 

seven, & seven rays II 191n 
seven, born simultaneously II 1-12, 77, 329, 611 
seven, in Bible II 747-8 
seven, in Revelation II 565, 748 
seven, in various religions II 617-18 
seven, kept secret I xxxv 
seven kings or seven I 241; II 748 
seven, on Babylonian Tree II 104 
seven rishis are II 139 
seven zones & II 77, 91, 249, 607n 

 

sterility of, explained II 195-6, 780 
superior & inferior, a fallacy II 425 
Talmudists lost sense of forty-nine II 618 


Race that never dies II 67, 275  & fn,  281-2


three ethereal II 669 
three-eyed men of third & fourth II 669 
three great, only remain II 471n, 780

 

 

Root-Race -- Third. See also Lemurians, 

adepts dwelt under pyramids II 351-2 
Adi-Varsha (Eden) of II 203 
agnishvattas incarnated in II 91 
analogy of principles & II 254n 
androgyne II 165, 172, 177, 197 
animalistic, last portion of II 254n 
animal man descended fr I 650 
animals two-sexed during II 184 
ape-like, but thinking & speaking I 191 
ape's ancestor fr man in I 190 &n; II 184-5 &nn, 187, 262, 729n 
architecture fr rishis of I 208-9n 
arupa pitris incarnate in II 93-4 
asuras, rudras incarnated in II 164 
Atlantean conflicts w II 227n 
Atlantean giants fr, females II 275 
Australians descended fr II 199n, 328 


awakening of mind in, karmic II 198 
babes walked when born II 197 
Bamian statues & II 340 
began in northern regions II 329 
begat its progeny II 267 
bisexual II 135, 197 
w bones II 172, 183, 193 
bright shadow of gods II 268 
built boats before houses II 399n 
civilization drowned II 426 
civilization higher than Greek, Roman, & Egyptian II 429-30 
climate semitropical II 329 
colored light yellow II 250 
continent II 7, 8, 328 
cross in circle or I 5 
cyclopean structures of II 317 
Daksha & II 183 
deluge not a curse II 410 
deluge story applied to II 140 &n 
demigods of II 319 
description of, at zenith II 171-2 
destroyed twice I 439n 
deva-man of, & 3rd eye II 302 
dhyanis incarnated in I 188; II 47n, 165, 228 
disappeared at end of Secondary Age II 714 
divine instructors & kings of II 194, 198, 201, 318, 359 
divine ones of, & kriyasakti II 636-7 
Dragons of Wisdom adepts of II 210 
Earth's waist, navel appeared for II 400 
Easter Island statues & II 340 
Eastern Africa submerged in II 327 
egg-born (oviparous) II 116, 123, 165-6, 173, 177, 181, 197 
endowed w mind II 47n, 89, 248 
"eternal spring" ended w separation II 201 
Eva (Hebrew) & II 129-30 
fallen "Serpent" (wisdom) descends on II 230 
fell in North & Central Asia II 763n 
fell into generation II 609 
fell into pride II 271-2 
first intellectual race II 211 
first lands frozen over at time of II 201 
first physical race II 46, 156-7, 789 
first really human race II 329 
fought giant monsters II 9 
generation of bronze (Hesiod) II 97 
Genesis 3 & II 46n, 410 
geological deluge ended II 313 
giant, ape-like, astral II 688n 
giants, monsters produced in II 192-3 
gods of, male & female II 135 
hermaphrodite (separating) II 30, 134, 167 
hybrid races left by II 714 
Ida legend refers to II 147-8 
intermediate race produced by II 275 
Jared symbol of elect of II 597n 
Jurassic, appeared in II 156 
Kabiri, etc, incarnated in elect of II 360 
knew death only toward close II 609 
kriyasakti used by II 173-4, 181 
last remnant of II 220 
last semi-spiritual race II 134 
late, fell into sin II 319 
lunar pitris build bodies of II 110 
male, female born fr shells II 197 
male Moon sacred to I 397 
mammals fr man in II 186 
man an animal intellectually until II 161 
manasa pitris awakened I 180-1, 539n; II 525n 
man's spiritual origins in II 165-6n 
manushyas created woman II 140 


mid-, eighteen million years ago II 156-7;  I  150fn,,


mind awakened in mid- I 180-1; II 254-5 
mind-born & will-born II 156 
mind-born sons of II 204 
mindless at separation I 190; II 267 
mindless, bred w animals II 184-5, 191-3, 201 


Mysteries revealed to II 281 

nirmanakayas & II 94, 201 
nomads, savages of II 318 


oral records of fourth race fr II 530 
origin of culture II 782n 
perished before Eocene II 313 
Popol Vuh re II 160 
pre-tertiary giants II 9 
produced unconsciously I 207 
psycho-spiritual mentally II 298-9n 
religion of II 272-3 
reproduction, three methods of II 132, 197 
Secondary Age & II 713 
secrets of nature public in II 319 
semi-human during first half of II 685-6 
Senzar fr second race devas I xliii 
separation ended satya-yuga II 201 
Seth, Adam's third son symbol of II 469

 
sexes separated before mind I 207; II 191, 198, 228 
sex fr hermaphrodites II 177-8 
sexual in later II 3, 125, 132, 167, 182, 609 
sight at beginning of II 299 


Sin of Mindless among II 184-5, 191-2, 683 


solid after midpoint & Fall II 250 
Sons of Will & Yoga among I 207; II 163, 173, 181, 199, 220 
speech developed w mind II 198 
sweat-born & II 67-8, 131-3, 148, 172, 177, 198 
tau symbol of, up to Fall I 5 
third Adam, man of "dust" or II 457-8 
third eye of II 288-302, 306 
third round & I 188-9, 190 
thought transference II 199 
three aspects of II 254n 
transformation of sexes during II 147 
two sexes during fifth subrace of II 715n 
Vaivasvata Manu & II 148-9 
Vasishtha-Daksha's sons in II 78 
vehicle of Lords of Wisdom II 172 
Venus under influence of II 24 
Wondrous Being descended in I 207 
Zeus divides, man (Plato) II 177

Root-Race -- Fourth. See also Atlantis (ean), Cyclopes

acme of materiality II 534 
adepts of II 210, 351-2 
agglutinative language of some of II 199 
anthropoids fr late II 193, 195 
arrogant & full of pride II 271-2, 760 
astronomy imparted to, by divine king II 29 
Atlas' daughters seven subraces of II 768 
Atlas symbolizes II 493 
black w sin, became II 227, 250, 319 
born in Secondary Age II 714 
brown & yellow giants II 227n 
catastrophe thinned II 309, 724 
causes of destruction of, (Enoch) II 534 
children of Padmapani (Chenresi) II 173 
civilization of, greater than ours II 429-30 
conflicts of, w third race II 227n 
continent of, belonged to Eocene II 693 
cosmic gods & four elements I 464 
cross out of circle symbol of I 5 
cyclopean civilization gave way to II 769 
daityas, giants of II 31, 151, 183, 276 
deified men of third race II 172 
deluge destroyed II 140, 144 
deluge not a curse II 350, 410 
descending arc ends at middle of II 180 
destroyed in its kali-yuga II 147n 
developed fr third race men II 334 
developed speech II 198-200 
door into human kingdom closed in I 182 
duration of II 10 
early, worshiped spirit alone I 327 
Easter Island statues II 224-5, 316n, 326-7, 331 
eleven buddhas only belong to II 423n 
ethereal prototypes of II 9 
Eye of Siva in II 302 
first "truly human" race II 715n 
fled to high mountains II 724 
fourth Adam "fallen" II 457-8 
fourth continent of II 8 
Genesis 3 refers to early II 410 
gibborim or II 279 
golden-yellow race II 319 
Hanokh (Enoch) gave wisdom of, to Noah II 532 
height of, early Eocene II 433n, 710 
inherited wisdom fr third race II 530 
initiates made Bamian statues II 339 
instructors of II 359 
intelligence of, earthy & impure II 134 
Kabiri incarnated in elect of II 360 
karma gradually changed II 411 
language is perfected in I 189 
last of, invade Europe II 743-4 
lion symbolizes II 533 
magicians of, called dragons II 280n 
Mahabharata re end of II 146 
male heroes of, we worship II 135 
mankind mostly fr seventh subrace of II 178 
mated w lower beings II 284-5 
middle of, man & globe grosser II 250-1 
Neptune symb titanic strength of II 766 
Nereus rules II 766 
Noah symbol of II 597n 
oral records of II 530 
physical origin of later races in early II 165n 
pioneers of, not Atlanteans II 323 
pyramids & adepts of II 351-2 
Rakshasi Bhasha language of II 199 
records since beginning of I 646 
red-yellow II 250 
resorted to body-worship II 279 
semi-demons of II 319 
Seth-Enos II 134 
seventh subrace of, mixed w Aryans II 743 
shadows of pitris dominate to midpoint of II 110 
siddhas of, & fifth race sages II 636 
Sons of Wisdom & II 228 
sorcery & androgyne Moon I 397 
spirits of giant tabernacles of I 225 
third eye & II 294, 302, 306 
third subrace of, & records II 353 
three-eyed in early II 294 
transmitted four elements to fifth race I 342 
two eyes perfected at beginning of II 769 
two sexes in II 125, 173 
Ulysses hero of II 769 
unique I 182 
Vaivasvata & II 140, 309, 313 
Venus story in Puranas & II 30 
war between, & fifth race initiates I 419 
white & black magic began in I 192n; II 211 
wisdom only thru initiation in II 134 
Zeus reigns but Poseidon rules II 766

 

 

Root-Race -- 5th. See also Aryan Race

adepts of II 210, 351-2, 384 
adepts vs Atlantean sorcerers II 384 
age of II 10 
animal propensities in I 610 
anthropoids will die out in I 184 


arhatship at end of I 206-7 
Aryan incorrect name II 434 
in Asia II 280n 


Atlantean deluge & II 144 
Atlantean karma of II 302 
Atlantis sank in infancy of I 650-1; II 147n, 350, 714 


Bamian statue records II 340 
bull symbolizes II 533 
China one of oldest, nations II 364 
colors of II 249-50, 351 
continent of II 8-9 
cradleland of II 204 
decrease in stature of I 609; II 279 
deified man of third race II 172 
deluges in II 353 
deluges of barbarians in II 742n 
destruction of, (2Peter) II 757 


divine kings of II 351, 353, 359, 436 


early, greeted Venus-Lucifer II 759 
earthly spirit of fourth strong in I 224-5 
earthquakes & eruptions in II 307n 

family races of fourth subrace of II 433 


fifth element (ether) & II 135 
fifth subrace I 319, 471n 


first appearance of II 395 
first deluge of, cosmical II 353 
first glacial period & II 144 
first, second races & II 300 
first symmetrical race II 294 


fourth subrace of I 319; II 433 


hearing limited at beginning of I 535n 
history mostly of I 406; II 351, 444 
idolatry, anthropomorphism in II 503 
inflectional language of II 200 
initiates wrote Rig-Veda II 606 
intellectual replaced spiritual I 225; II 300 
knowledge of writing & II 442 
led away by preconceptions I 298 
lunar-solar worship divided I 397 
magicians called dragons II 280n 
Mahabharata prologue to II 139 
manasa period of races II 300 
man helpless, scrofulous II 411 
midpoint of subrace I xliii, 185, 610 
mode of procreation will be altered I 406 
Mysteries reestablished by II 124 
not entirely Aryan II 429 


now in kali-yuga II 147n 


reincarnation tenets fr fourth race II 760 
rescued fr last cataclysm I 273 
Roman, Gnostic, Greek symbols of II 458 
sages of, & fourth race siddhas II 636 


Sanskrit & I 23; II 200 


serpents redescended & taught II 355 
skeletons nine-twelve feet explained II 293 
some of, have reached adeptship I 206 
sorcery in II 503 
Tau cross & I 5 
third race spirituality coming to I 225 
tribes of, fought Atlanteans II 225 
twenty-four buddhas in II 423 &n 
Vaivasvata saved II 140, 309, 310, 313-14 
Vaivasvata seed of, man II 146-7, 249-50 
volcanic conflagrations will end II 307n 
war between, & fourth race sorcerers I 419 
we are now in II 140n, 434 
White Head or, (Kabbala) II 705-6 
will gradually change II 445-6 
will overlap sixth race II 444-6 
will transmit ether to sixth race I 342 
wisdom dictated to, in Senzar I xliii

 

==================================

 

Well, that is a lot to encompass - takes years of diligent and devoted study
to make sense of all that is advanced from the ancient records.  That is of
course "history."  

 

Assurance may be first derived that it is NOT "SCIENCE - FICTION."  The
logic inherent in the whole curriculum does give this kind of assurance. 

 

Many of the "gaps" in scientific theorizing are filled.

 

Best wishes,

 

 

Dallas

=====================

 

-----Original Message------

On Behalf Of pedro oliveira
Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 5:12 AM
To: 
Subject: Re: Fundamentalism, religion and reason

 

Dear Dallas,

Thank you for your posting. As I find it hard to absorb vast amounts 
of information all at once, and because I am interested in inquiring 
into the question of fundamentalism as deeply as possible, I would 
like to ask you, if I may, for you to give us your comments or 
interpretation of the well-known passage which you just quoted and 
which I copy here:

"That for long ages, the "Wise Men" of the Fifth Race, of the stock 
saved and rescued from the last cataclysm and shifting of 
continents, had passed their lives in learning, not teaching. How 
did they do so? It is answered: by checking, testing, and verifying 
in every department of nature the traditions of old by the 
independent visions of great adepts; i.e., men who have developed 
and perfected their physical, mental, psychic, and spiritual
organisations to the utmost possible degree. No vision of one adept 
was accepted till it was checked and confirmed by the visions-so 
obtained as to stand as independent evidence-of other adepts, and by 
centuries of experiences." (SD, I, Summing Up)

I regard the above passage a core statement not only about the 
origins of Theosophy as a teaching but also about the very soul of 
religion. It seems to me that it is only when this vital spirit of 
learning through checking, testing and verifying, with the wholeness 
of our perception, the received traditions, weakens or dies that 
dogmatism, intolerance and rigidity in spiritual matters arise.

May we have you thoughts on the above?

With warm regards,

Pedro





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