Theos-Talk Archives (August 2006 Message tt00123)

Cass says: 
 
" I laughed out loud at the suggestion that anyone would believe the crap that came out of the Coulombs mouth about her, it didn't take a Jung to figure out the motives behind their deceit. If anything, the publishing of these letters, stands in evidence of their guilt and not of HPB's ingenuity."

But it too late to say that. Why not before?

Carlos. 
De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Cópia:

Data:Wed, 2 Aug 2006 17:37:12 -0700 (PDT)

Assunto:[Spam] Re: Theos-World GREETINGS TO DANIEL

> I have not known or heard of many journalists who are truth seekers. A story at any expense. Masters also stated our Conscience can only tell us what is wrong, and not what is right. If you are questioning everything, why not question if HPB was a fraud. You clearly have not read enough Theosophy to know this for yourself. When one reads her words, her thoughts, her tone, her genuineness is apparent. One one reads Leadbeater, his tone, his thoughts, his genuineness is always couched in sermonic lectures about his knowledge, about his truth, his arrogance and his intellectuality. 
> 
> I laughed out loud at the suggestion that anyone would believe the crap that came out of the Coulombs mouth about her, it didn't take a Jung to figure out the motives behind their deceit. If anything, the publishing of these letters, stands in evidence of their guilt and not of HPB's ingenuity.
> 
> Cass
> 
> carlosaveline wrote: 
> 
> Daniel,
> 
> I am open to facts. 
> 
> I have no blind faith. As a journalist and as a truth-seeker, I have respect for evidences. If you study the Mahatma Letters, you will see that this is exactly what the MASTERS expect from Aspirants to Discipleship, and also from regular disciples. 
> 
> Their rules say that one can doubt anything at any time, as long as one is faithful TO ONE'S OWN CONSCIENCE. It is rather naive of you to think otherwise. You should study more Theosophy. 
> 
> So I am open to questioning everything and have no blind belief. Besides, I had confidence in TPHs! I thought I was reading Letters of HPB. 
> 
> When I saw a letter by HPB offering herself as a Spy, I had to see what was going on. Seeing that, investigating it, was not nice. 
> 
> When I saw Algeo was simply circulating slanders in a coward and disguised way, I started thinking about the effects of such reading in other students, less experienced than I. 
> 
> I hope that helps. 
> 
> I am opening my process for you and you can laugh at it as much as you can. 
> 
> No problem, as this is also an exercise of self-examination for me. Everything is multidimensionally connected to healthy inner tests -- at least if one tries to seach for truth and to practice truthfulness. 
> 
> Yes, Daniel, aspirants to discipleship are formally entitled and authorized to doubt everything, and to see things for themselves -- as long as they remain loyal to their own higher selves! 
> 
> Loyalty is inner, not outer. Got it?
> 
> Best regards and greetings to your Antahkarana, 
> 
> Carlos Cardoso Aveline 
> 
> De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> 
> Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> 
> Cópia:
> 
> Data:Wed, 02 Aug 2006 15:28:17 -0000
> 
> Assunto:Theos-World IMHO, Most revealing comments from Carlos
> 
> > Carlos, below you write some very revealing comments.
> > I quote them first and follow them up with my own
> > observations.
> > 
> > First your revealing comments:
> > 
> > ===================================================
> > When I first read Letter Seven and other idiocies in Algeo's volume, 
> > in the first semester of 2004, I painfully doubted HPB. At first, I 
> > just could not think USA TPH could publish a fake and slanderous 
> > action.
> > 
> > Then I stopped to think, went through the "sources" of that fake 
> > text, saw it came from Soloviof, understood it all, and called from 
> > my rural home and library in Brasilia to a friend, a long standing 
> > editor in the English language (not a ULT member):
> > 
> > -- "Tell me, am I dreaming, or Soloviof cannot be taken as a source 
> > of any historical information on HPB? Take a look at Sylvia 
> > Cranston! What happened to Algeo and the TPH?"
> > 
> > And the person said:
> > 
> > -- "You are right. Soloviof can be no source".
> > 
> > Then I stopped doubting HPB. And still I checked that with Algeo
> > himself, with Radha Burnier, Dara Eklund, Joy Mills and many others,
> > before getting tougher.
> > 
> > So, I clearly put TRUTH and FACTS well above any current opinion of 
> > mine. 
> > ====================================================
> > 
> > Now my comments:
> > 
> > Your very first sentence is very revealing to me:
> > 
> > "When I first read Letter Seven and other idiocies in Algeo's 
> > volume, in the first semester of 2004, I painfully doubted HPB."
> > 
> > Let me get this straight. Are you saying that only 2 and 1/2 years 
> > ago that you, the great defender of HPB against all slanderers and 
> > libel-propagators, had doubts about HPB?????
> > 
> > You even emphasize your doubt by saying it was painful:
> > 
> > I .......... PAINFULLY DOUBTED ............... HPB.
> > 
> > You don't say how long you had those PAINFUL DOUBTS.
> > 
> > Was it only for a few seconds or minutes or hours or days
> > BEFORE you stopped doubting and started thinking???
> > 
> > Furthermore, are you telling me that you knew so little about HPB's 
> > life, about her life's work, about the controversies, about her 
> > struggles, about her teachings, that such PAINFUL DOUBTS could 
> > apparently overwhelm you or at least throw you off balance??
> > 
> > I do NOT know your specific situation, but it would appear to me 
> > that possibly a more well grounded person would not have had such a 
> > emotional reaction as you experienced.
> > 
> > Then you say:
> > 
> > "At first, I just could not think USA TPH could publish a fake and 
> > slanderous action."
> > 
> > But wait think about it....Carlos
> > 
> > Don't you believe that the teachings of Leadbeater are 
> > basically "pseudo-Theosophy"...or even fake?
> > 
> > I don't exactly know what you think about Leadbeater's teachings but 
> > many Blavatsky students are not shy in saying that they are simply 
> > fake....that Leadbeater was a fraud pure and simple....
> > 
> > But if you consider his teachings "pseudo" however you may define 
> > that word, then think: both Adyar TPH and Wheaton publish these 
> > books of Leadbeater...
> > 
> > So why did you (naively??) assume that TPH Adyar or Wheaton would 
> > NOT publish other questionable material????
> > 
> > Or in 2004 did you still believe in Leadbeater's claims and 
> > teachings?
> > 
> > So when you write:
> > 
> > "I just could not think USA TPH could publish a fake and slanderous 
> > action."
> > 
> > you seem to be placing TOO MUCH FAITH and TRUST in a publisher...or 
> > at least so it seems to me.
> > 
> > Turning briefly to my own initial experiences:
> > 
> > When I came to Theosophy and Blavatsky in 1968, I did NOT have any 
> > trust in any of these theosophical publishers. I'm not saying I 
> > mistrusted them BUT how was I to know (being a complete newbie to 
> > all of this) who was telling the truth about HPB? Was a 
> > theosophical author telling me the truth about HPB and Theosophy?
> > Or was some non-theosophical writer telling the truth about all of 
> > this? Some books portray HPB as a fake, others as a genuine 
> > occultist. How is the newbie to know what is what? 
> > 
> > Theosophical publishers could simply be pushing their own propaganda 
> > or agenda. Doesn't society in general view Theosophy as just 
> > a "cult"....one of many of those bizarre occult cults.....That was 
> > the atmosphere in which I was introduced to HPB and Theosophy. 
> > 
> > I wanted to know what I should believe...this view or that 
> > view....how was I to know in 1968 who was telling the truth and who 
> > was telling lies or pushing propaganda?
> > 
> > But in 2004 I assume you had more experience...you must have read in 
> > previous years more widely in Theosophical literature....That you 
> > had thought more about these subjects and had discussed some of 
> > these issues with other Theosophical students....
> > 
> > Or is my assumption wrong? That is, in prior years to 2004 you had 
> > NOT read widely and thought about all these things....
> > 
> > Later you write:
> > 
> > "Then I stopped doubting HPB...."
> > 
> > Peace at last???
> > 
> > At this point I won't comment on any more of your revealing comments.
> > 
> > So now it appears (at least to me) that possibly you want to help 
> > produce a volume in which all the letters that caused you such 
> > PAINFUL doubting are simply removed. That way, others will not have 
> > to go thru such PAINFUL EXPERIENCES.... of doubting HPB.
> > 
> > And you do not want others to read in my book THE ESOTERIC WORLD OF 
> > MADAME BLAVATSKY those disgusting testimonies by Coulomb and company 
> > because they too might experience PAINFUL DOUBT of HPB....
> > 
> > I find this understandable if in fact this is how you view all of 
> > this.
> > 
> > More in my next email.
> > 
> > Daniel
> > http://hpb.cc
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > E-mail classificado pelo Identificador de Spam Inteligente Terra.
> > Para alterar a categoria classificada, visite
> > http://mail.terra.com.br/protected_email/imail/imail.cgi?+_u=carlosaveline&_l=1,1154532557.884131.18659.curepipe.hst.terra.com.br,8407,Des15,Des15
> > 
> > Esta mensagem foi verificada pelo E-mail Protegido Terra.
> > Scan engine: McAfee VirusScan / Atualizado em 01/08/2006 / Versão: 4.4.00/4819
> > Proteja o seu e-mail Terra: http://mail.terra.com.br/
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> E-mail classificado pelo Identificador de Spam Inteligente Terra.
> Para alterar a categoria classificada, visite
> http://mail.terra.com.br/protected_email/imail/imail.cgi?+_u=carlosaveline&_l=1,1154565441.340031.25529.caneria.hst.terra.com.br,13125,20031127114101,20031127114101
> 
> Esta mensagem foi verificada pelo E-mail Protegido Terra.
> Scan engine: McAfee VirusScan / Atualizado em 02/08/2006 / Versão: 4.4.00/4820
> Proteja o seu e-mail Terra: http://mail.terra.com.br/
> 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]