Theos-Talk Archives (August 2006 Message tt00107)

An Author's job is to present the evidence - not to comment on it.  What don't you get about that?????
Cass

carlosaveline <carlosaveline@terra.com.br> wrote:                                  Daniel, 
 
 In your book you do not say you do not believe these "testimonies"; and you don't  say their authors are liars in your opinion.  This is new. Congratulations. For some mysterious factor, you seem to be evolving.   
 
 Carlos. 
 
 De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
 
 Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
 
 Cópia:
 
 Data:Wed, 02 Aug 2006 18:26:21 -0000
 
 Assunto:Theos-World Carlos and His Laughing Plus Other Points He Ignores
 
 > Carlos wrote:
 > 
 > ===============================================
 > I had to laugh, physically and nicely, upon reading this sentence in
 > your message:
 > 
 > " ( ... ) I don't believe in the Coulombs or in Soloviof.
 > I believe both the Coulombs and Soloviof turned against
 > Madame Blavatsky and lied about her."
 > 
 > As a good laugh is always good for health, I must thank you.
 > 
 > I will probably quote these two sentences of yours in the future!
 > 
 > So you do CONFESS you do KNOW you are circulating poison, false 
 > dollars, lies,SLANDERS.
 > 
 > Thanks for your transparency,
 > =======================================================
 > 
 > 
 > First I give a quote from HPB. What HPB writes is apparently
 > something Aveline chooses to forget:
 > 
 > "...in the world mental as in the world spiritual each man
 > must progress by his own efforts. The writer cannot do the
 > reader's thinking for him, nor would the latter be any the
 > better off if such vicarious thought were possible..."
 > 
 > Now my comments.
 > 
 > I gave my opinion about the Coulomb material in
 > my book and I give below my reasons for including such
 > material:
 > 
 > In regards to Aveline's comments about the adding of
 > negative accounts by Coulomb and Hodgson, etc. to the
 > TPH Wheaton edition of my book THE ESOTERIC WORLD OF
 > MADAME BLAVATSKY, it was MY decision to add them so that readers
 > could see what the charges against HPB actually were,
 > ESPECIALLY since many of the other accounts by
 > "friendly" witnesses refer to these charges, and even
 > make comments about the charges, etc.
 > 
 > I saw no good reason to hide the "negative" accounts
 > from readers....
 > 
 > One might conclude from his various comments at Theos-Talk that Mr. 
 > Aveline doesn't want readers to read these accounts for themselves 
 > and come to THEIR OWN conclusions.
 > 
 > Also by giving these accounts in my book, the reader
 > can start to UNDERSTAND the RELEVANCE of what the
 > other witnesses say in their accounts.
 > 
 > Furthermore, I was motivated to include them in light
 > of what Madame Blavatsky once wrote:
 > 
 > "...Contrast alone can enable us to appreciate things
 > at their right value; and unless a judge compares
 > notes and hears both sides he can hardly come to a
 > correct decision." H.P. Blavatsky. The Theosophist,
 > July, 1881, p. 218.
 > 
 > I wanted the reader to be able to compare notes and
 > hear both sides. 
 > 
 > What is wrong with that? 
 > 
 > Doesn't Mr. Aveline want readers to do THEIR OWN comparing of
 > notes, etc.?
 > 
 > And CONTRARY to what Mr. Aveline has written before, some of the
 > editorial notes in my book do call the reader's
 > attention to the conflicting testimony and even to the
 > falsity of the charges against HPB.
 > 
 > Here are some of the notes to the readers in my book:
 > 
 > p. 185: "Her phenomena and the reality of her teachers
 > were both controversial matters, eliciting both
 > believing acceptance (sometimes with independent
 > confirmation) and skeptical rejection, as the
 > following selections will illustrate."
 > 
 > p. 205: "Emma Coulomb later claimed that she
 > collaborated with HPB at Adyar, as she had earlier in
 > Bombay, in producing false phenomena; however, her
 > descriptions of what she did are not consistent with
 > the observatations of others, who witnessed the
 > phenomena, both Indian and Westerners, as some of the
 > following selections demonstrate."
 > 
 > p. 263: "Meanwhile, a vicious attack on Blavatsky by
 > two of her staff members at Adyar, Alexis and Emma
 > Coulomb, was rapidly building up....She wished to sue
 > the couple, already dismissed from Adyar for their
 > gross libel concerning her supposedly fraudulent
 > production of psychic phenomena...."
 > 
 > p. 264: "The Coulomb attack, as was later evident, had
 > no solid foundation whatsoever. It was based on forged
 > and partially forged letters, purporting to have been
 > written by H.P. Blavatsky, with instructions to
 > arrange fraudulent psychic phenomena of various
 > kinds."
 > 
 > p. 264: "In 1963, Adlai Waterman....refuted Hodgson's
 > contentions against Madame Blavatsky....Another
 > refutation of some of Hodgson's charges against HPB is
 > Vernon Harison's article...."
 > 
 > p. 406: "In May 1884, the Coulomb couple were expelled
 > from the Theosophial Society for theft, attempted
 > extortion and slander...."
 > 
 > One might conclude that Mr. Aveline either didn't
 > carefully read my book to know about these notes or
 > else he didn't want his readers to know that I had
 > added such comments.
 > 
 > Surely the perceptive reader of all of these notes,
 > etc. in my book will be able to see that one should
 > take what these writers [Coulomb and Hodgson] say with
 > a few grains of salt.
 > 
 > Furthermore, I specifically selected the material by
 > Coulomb and Hodgson to put in JUXTAPOSITION with other
 > accounts which show that what they (Coulomb and
 > Hodgson) say about, for example, the appearances of
 > the Masters, must surely be off the mark, to say the
 > least or as I believe.....wrong...false.
 > 
 > See also: 
 > http://blavatskyarchives.com/mahatmasapparitions.htm
 > 
 > If anything, the accounts by the above "enemies" of
 > HPB found next to other accounts will make the reader
 > .... THINK .... about the charges and their validity.
 > 
 > And if they are perceptive at all, they should (at the
 > very least) conclude that the Coulomb/Hodgson charges
 > should not be taken at face value WITHOUT carefully
 > considering other material which is ALSO FOUND in the
 > book or what can be found in greater detail in the
 > Waterman and Harrison books.
 > 
 > Some of the thoughtful readers of my book may actually
 > dig deeper and try to determine for themselves what
 > really happened....instead of believing either Aveline
 > or me!!
 > 
 > Daniel
 > BLAVATSKY STUDY CENTER
 > http://blavatskyarchives.com
 > http://theosophy.info
 > 
 > ========================================================
 > "...none but the logician, the investigator, the dauntless
 > explorer should meddle with books like this. Such delvers
 > after truth have the courage of their opinions."
 > H.P. Blavatsky
 > 
 > "...Contrast alone can enable us to appreciate things at
 > their right value; and unless a judge compares notes and
 > hears both sides he can hardly come to a correct decision."
 > H.P. Blavatsky
 > 
 > "...in the world mental as in the world spiritual each man
 > must progress by his own efforts. The writer cannot do the
 > reader's thinking for him, nor would the latter be any the
 > better off if such vicarious thought were possible..."
 > H.P. Blavatsky
 > =======================================================
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > Yahoo! Groups Links
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
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