Theos-Talk Archives (May 2006 Message tt00591)

Daniel,

Your observations seem sound to me.  It is difficult to know someone's
motives.  Most disagreements are founded upon ignorance and
misunderstanding and consequently motives are unclear.  Some, such as
the Coulombs, are clearly vindictive and act for some perceived
advantage.  We can all have doubts about motive, but such doubts are
better kept to ourselves.  If someone is doing damage by their
statements or actions, the statements or actions can be attacked
without attacking the individual. The intent is always to assume there
is ignorance when there is conflict and try to dispel the ignorance
through debate. If we are going to accuse individuals of conscious
evil, we had best have proof to back up our accusations or else we can
easily be accused of evil ourselves, even if out of ignorance.  If
nothing else, that seems to be what has been clarified on theos-talk
these past months.

Bruce

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "danielhcaldwell"
<danielhcaldwell@...> wrote:
>
> Robert,
> 
> That sounds okay with me.
> 
> Yes, it is unfortunate that "poor Katinka" was ever dragged into the 
> fray to begin with!!
> 
> All I will say is that I do not attribute bad motives or anything of 
> the sorts to Katinka when she gave her personal opinion.  I assume 
> it is her honest and sincere opinion.  
> 
> And I should say here that I do NOT agree with her opinion regarding
> genuine/fake phenomena.  I guess I am foolish and naive enough (I've 
> been accused of being that, too!) to believe that HPB's phenomena 
> were all genuine.  But because I hold a different view from 
> Katinka's doesn't mean that therefore I doubt Katinka's motives or 
> view her character in a negative light, etc.  
> 
> I just believe her opinion is wrong...that her thinking on the 
> subject is probably muddled, but of course that is my thinking on 
> the matter and maybe my thinking is all muddled!
> 
> Yes so we can drop the subject and I hope that we might "stay away 
> from living personalities" and especially from attributing bad 
> motives, etc. to them.
> 
> Daniel
> http://hpb.cc
> 
> 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "robert_b_macd" 
> <robert.b.macdonald@> wrote:
> >
> > Daniel,
> > 
> > Perhaps I am taking things too far, but I think in this refreshing 
> new
> > era for theos-talk, it would be prudent to stay away from living
> > personalities.  If you are implying that you have a problem with
> > Katinka's motives in light of KH's comments, I suspect there are 
> more
> > suitable forums in which to post them.  I prefer to say nothing 
> and to
> > stick to understanding the great wealth that is Theosophy.  I am 
> sure
> > that we can debate theosophy without dragging poor Katinka into the
> > fray.
> > 
> > Bruce
> > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "danielhcaldwell"
> > <danielhcaldwell@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Bruce,
> > >
> > > Thanks for your comments.
> > >
> > > I see that you are contemplating what KH says in relationship to
> > > what the Coulombs did.
> > >
> > > But although we may gain some insights by doing so, my
> > > initial thoughts were about how we might see Katinka's
> > > opinion in relationship to what KH wrote about.
> > >
> > > I assume you are NOT lumping Katinka in the same category
> > > with the Coulombs.
> > >
> > > Daniel
> > > http://hpb.cc
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "robert_b_macd"
> > > robert.b.macdonald@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Daniel points to some wise words here from which we could all
> > > learn a
> > > > little.
> > > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "danielhcaldwell"
> > > > <danielhcaldwell@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Would the following by K.H. apply to Katinka's opinion
> > > > > which has been apparently used AGAINST her here at Theos-Talk
> > > > > in several previous posts????
> > > > >
> > > > > I ask this not to create "discord" here but to get some 
> readers
> > > > > pondering on what seems to me some very important issues that
> > > > > apparently are not carefully considered from time to time in
> > > some of
> > > > > the Theos-Talk postings.
> > > > >
> > > > > Koot Hoomi writes:
> > > > > 
> ===============================================================
> > > > > ...Every Western Theosophist should learn
> > > > > and remember, especially those of them who would be our
> > > followers --
> > > > > that in our Brotherhood, all personalities sink into one 
> idea --
> > > > > abstract right and absolute practical justice for all. And 
> that,
> > > > > though we may not say with the Christians, "return good for
> > > evil" --
> > > > > we repeat with Confucius -- "return good for good; for evil -
> -
> > > > > JUSTICE." Thus, the Theosophists of Mrs. K.'s way of 
> thinking, --
> > > > > were they even to oppose some of us personally to the bitter
> > > end, --
> > > > > are entitled to as much respect and consideration (so long as
> > > they
> > > > > are sincere) from us and their fellow-members of opposite 
> views,
> > > as
> > > > > those who are ready with Mr. Sinnett to follow absolutely 
> but our
> > > > > special teaching. A dutiful regard for these rules in life 
> will
> > > > > always promote the best interests of all concerned....
> > > > > 
> =================================================================
> > > > > http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/mahatma/ml-85.htm
> > > > >
> > > > This quote brings forward the ideas of "sincerity" and the 
> respect
> > > that
> > > > the Master's demonstrate for potential enemies to the 
> Brotherhood's
> > > > teachings.  Nowhere do the Masters deviate from a postion of
> > > Universal
> > > > Brotherhood with respect to students with contrary views, 
> nowhere
> > > does
> > > > the debate sink into concern over motives.  Theosophists 
> concerned
> > > with
> > > > "abstract right and practical justice for all" will, no doubt,
> > > want to
> > > > stay away from personal motive as this can only debase a 
> debate.
> > > For
> > > > example, when the Coulombs accused HPB of fraud, there was no
> > > interest
> > > > in seeking Truth, only an interest in establishing doubt 
> concerning
> > > > HPB's motives and integrity.  The Coulomb's, unable to argue
> > > > intelligently against HPB's presentation of the Wisdom 
> Tradition,
> > > > attempted to cause her harm by levying empty accusations that 
> to my
> > > > knoweldge have never been proven nor has anyone attempted to 
> prove
> > > them.
> > > > They can hardly be described as  "sincere" holders of opposite
> > > views.
> > > > "Justice" certainly dictates that their "evil" accusations be 
> met
> > > with
> > > > opposition by fair-minded men.  "Ingratitude is not among our
> > > vices, nor
> > > > do we imagine you would wish to advise it. . . ."
> > > >
> > > > Bruce
> > > >
> > >
> >
>