Theos-Talk Archives (May 2006 Message tt00505)

Sufilight,

As I wrote earlier, the spiritual  light I see in Alice Bailey's writings and "World Goodwil" does not depend on their ideas, their thesis and descriptions of reality being, say, too much accurate. 

What I see in their vision of things has to do:

1) With their commitment to serve the cause of universal brotherhood with regard to the present moment and future of mankind.  I am sure we can do better then they in many aspects, if we (the theosophical movement) get beyond the closed circuit of swelf-contemplation and discussion about words.

2) With World Goodwill/Arcane School's  ability to discuss world events from a philosophical viewpoint -- with optimism and outside the vicious circle of negative thinking. 


On the other hand, Sufilight, we do know -- don't we?  -- that lack of accuracy is far from being an exclusive property of Alice Bailey's ideas and followers. 

I also would be happy to see some Sufi organization, present worldwide and speaking out to the several nations, as World Goodwill does, about its own version of a healthy future for Mankind.  Is the point clear? 

For instance, in Israel, PEACE NOW, an NGO, has something to say about peace and a better future for Israelies/Palestinians.  

When will we have an Arab/Palestinian conterpart to PEACE NOW?

Many Arab friends criticize the USA and Europe's democracies with important points in their views, but -- do they see ANY mistakes in the top-down, autocratic,  woman disrespectful,  political  and social regimes as the ones in Syria and many other countries?  Some of them don't even criticize Al Qaeda terrorists! 

Theosophy invites us to look at the world as one single process. 

We should criticize western democracies AND Muslim dictatorships. ( While preferring democracies to disctatorships, of course.)  

We should see positive aspects in western AND in Muslim societies. 

Perhaps Theos-talk can be a small "battle field" where we can try something in that direction.  Others are doing the same in many different instances. 

Planetary citizenship will laboriously emerge in this century. 

With best sufi and kabalistic, arab and jewish regards,  


Carlos. 



 




De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Cópia:

Data:Sat, 13 May 2006 00:33:22 +0200

Assunto:Re: Theos-World Theosophy and the U. N.

> Hallo Carlos and all,
> 
> My views are:
> 
> Carlos wrote:
> "I hope I clarified. Goals, premises and principles are of the essence in 
> Occultism."
> 
> Let us not underestimate the situation. Do you think, that, by calling the 
> religion of Islam a hybrid offshoot of Christianity with the tinge of 
> Judaism,
> that the Bailey's at UN level will be very helpful to the theosophical 
> cause???
> Is that World Goodwill???
> 
> - - -
> 
> The Alice A. Bailey groups crystallized thought-patterns.
> 
> One aught not underestimate the level of fanatism, which a great number
> of members of various Alice A. Bailey groups displays. As a former member
> of an Alice A. Bailey group I know about this.
> One aught not underestimate the Level of crystallized thought-patterns
> among members of various Alice A. Bailey groups.
> I here talk about crystallized thought-patterns
> of christian vocabulary and a related cultural narrowmindedness.
> I also talk about thought-patterns, which often are
> letting themselves being cheated by the western Newsmedias
> propaganda on cultural narrowmindedness, as well as the
> Newsmedias tendencies to heavily propagandize about Christian-related 
> western cultural issues
> and never talk about some other non-western cultural issues.
> And quite important If YOU the reader of this are letting your own very wise
> consciousness being cheated and duped in the same manner, how will you then 
> understand
> the level of problems this issue are creating?
> 
> I am talking a bout a real danger or problem here.
> If many of the various Bailey groups continues to play the new World Servers
> and Saviours, while using their Christian-like vocabulary and - then bad and 
> jesuitic activities
> might happen to various parts of The Middle East, (known by the 
> Bailey-followers as a hybrid offshoot).
> It is not only many of the Bailey groups, which are involved in promoting 
> this problem.
> Other groups in society and at UN level are also involved.
> 
> There are certainly "jesuitic" influences involved at the Bailey groups and 
> their UN activities.
> 
> - - -
> 
> Carlos wrote:
> "Some theosophists are so busy "being" saints, or scholars, that they 
> can't think of anything else. "
> 
> 
> A few rewritten words from a friends notes.
> 
> The role of a Guru
> 
> I take a guru or leader to be a sort of psychotherapist. At the very best, 
> he keeps people quiet and
> polarized around him and gives some sort of meaning to their lives.
> Why shouldn't there be room for what we might call "neighborhood 
> psychotherapy" - the community looking
> after its own? However, why it should be called a spiritual activity rather 
> baffles me.
> Some are frankly phonies, and they don't try to hide it from me. They
> think that I am one, too, so when we meet they begin the most disturbing
> conversations. They want to know how I get money, how I control people, and
> so on. But they feel safety in numbers. They actually feel there is 
> something wrong
> with what they are doing, and they feel better if they talk to somebody else 
> who is doing it.
> I always tell them that I think it would be much better if they gave up the 
> guru role in
> their own minds and realize that they are providing a perfectly good social
> service.
> And their general reaction to this advice?
> Sometimes they laugh and sometimes they cry. The general impression is
> that one of us is wrong. Because I don't make the same kind of noises that
> they do, they seem to believe that either I am a lunatic or that I am
> starting some new kind of con. Perhaps I have found a new racket.
> 
> I must tell you that I have not renounced the Eastern technique of
> pretending to be interested in what another person is saying, even 
> pretending
> to be on his side. Therefore, I am able to draw out gurus and get them to
> commit themselves to an extent that a Westerner, because of his conscience,
> could not do. The Westerner would not allow certain things to go
> unchallenged and would not trick, as it were, another person. So he doesn't
> find out the truth.
> 
> People are always looking for leaders; that does not mean that
> this is the time for a leader. The problems that a leader would be
> able to resolve have not been identified. Nor does the clamor mean
> that those who cry out are suitable followers. Most of the people who
> demand a leader seem to have some baby's idea of what a leader
> should do. The idea that a leader will walk in and we will all
> recognize him and follow him and everybody will be happy strikes me
> as a strangely immature atavism. Most of these people, I believe,
> want not a leader but excitement. I doubt that those who cry the
> loudest would obey a leader if there was one. Talk is cheap, and a
> lot of the talk comes from millions of old washerwomen.
> (Maybe the leaders at various theosophical groups would consider the above 
> section.)
> 
> A theosophical teaching method is to be rude to people,
> sometimes shouting them down or shooing them away, a technique that
> is not customary in cultivated circles. By experience we know that by
> giving a certain kind of shock to a person, we can-for a short period-
> increase his perception.
> 
> We can't live in the world without being conditioned. Even the control
> of one's bladder is conditioned. It is absurd to talk, as some do, of
> deconditioned or nonconditioned people. But it is possible to see why
> conditioning has taken place and why a person's beliefs become 
> oversimplified.
> Nobody is trying to abolish conditioning, merely to describe it, to make
> it possible to change it, and also to see where it needs to operate, and
> where it does not.
> 
> If you seek to use words, which are not labelling you as belonging to a 
> sect,
> you might come very far in helping your fellow human beings.
> 
> Instead of saying that Theosophy is a body of thought in which you believe 
> certain things and don't
> believe other things, we say that the theosophical experience has to be 
> provoked in a
> person. Once provoked, it becomes his own property, rather as a person
> masters an art.
> A great number of The various Bailey groups who continues to play the
> new World Servers and Saviours, while using their Christian-like vocabulary 
> are Not
> provoking the theosophical experience. They are doing something else. They
> use mantras about their very own Christ to justify their narrowminded belief 
> in
> that the religion of Islam is a hybrid offshoot of Christianity with the 
> tinge of Judaism.
> 
> There are certainly jesuitic influences involved at the Bailey groups and 
> their UN activities.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> from
> M. Sufilight with peace and love...
> 
> <<<<<<< A Sufilight saying >>>>>>>
> We, the theosophists don't plan to form an organization with somebody at the 
> top and others at the
> bottom collecting money or wearing funny clothes or converting people
> to theosophy. We view theosophy not as an ideology that molds people to the
> right way of belief or action, but as an art or science that can
> exert a beneficial influence on individuals or societies, in
> accordance with the needs of those individuals and societies.
> Instead of saying that Theosophy is a body of thought in which you believe 
> certain things and don't
> believe other things, we say that the theosophical experience has to be 
> provoked in a
> person. Once provoked, it becomes his own property, rather as a person
> masters an art.
> <<<<<<<>>>>>>>
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "carlosaveline" 
> To: "theos-talk" 
> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 3:33 PM
> Subject: Theos-World Theosophy and the U. N.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sufilight,
> 
> 
> Thanks a lot for your commentaries.
> 
> I will tell you what I see in World Goddwil's ideas that is useful.
> 
> It is their premises, their starting point: the basic ideas that:
> 
> a) the esoteric movement can be conscious of its responsibility with the 
> future of mankind;
> 
> b) that the future of m,ankind is bright, in spite of crisis.
> 
> It goes implicitly that as esotericists forget about their co-responsibility 
> wirh regard to mankind, they get hypnotized by their own organizational or 
> personal navels, so to say.
> 
> But as they emerge from personal mayas and think of mankind, their vision 
> sight gets brighter.
> 
> This is the positive contribution I see in Alice Bailey's texts. And perhaps 
> I should mention World Godwill's commitment to universal brotherhood, human 
> rights and the United Nations (as a long-term project).
> 
> As to their precise analysis, everone should make better ones !!
> 
> We should NOT leave themes as the future of mankind to persons like
> George Walker or Bin Laden, if you know what I mean.
> 
> Some theosophists are so busy "being" saints, or scholars, that they can't 
> think of anything else.
> 
> I hope I clarified. Goals, premises and principles are of the essence in 
> Occultism.
> 
> Regards, Carlos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> 
> Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> 
> Cópia:
> 
> Data:Wed, 10 May 2006 23:10:42 +0200
> 
> Assunto:[Spam] Re: Theos-World Sufilight, Hitler and the U.N.
> 
> > Hallo Carlos and all,
> >
> > My views are:
> >
> > Allright I will write a more detailed e-mail.
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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