Theos-Talk Archives (May 2006 Message tt00465)

Hallo Carlos and all,

My views are:

Carlos wrote:
"I hope I clarified. Goals, premises and principles are of the essence in 
Occultism."

Let us not underestimate the situation. Do you think, that, by calling the 
religion of Islam a hybrid offshoot of Christianity with the tinge of 
Judaism,
that the Bailey's at UN level will be very helpful to the theosophical 
cause???
Is that World Goodwill???

- - -

The Alice A. Bailey groups crystallized thought-patterns.

One aught not underestimate the level of fanatism, which a great number
of members of various Alice A. Bailey groups displays. As a former member
of an Alice A. Bailey group I know about this.
One aught not underestimate the Level of crystallized thought-patterns
among members of various Alice A. Bailey groups.
I here talk about crystallized thought-patterns
of christian vocabulary and a related cultural narrowmindedness.
I also talk about thought-patterns, which often are
letting themselves being cheated by the western Newsmedias
propaganda on cultural narrowmindedness, as well as the
Newsmedias tendencies to heavily propagandize about Christian-related 
western cultural issues
and never talk about some other non-western cultural issues.
And quite important If YOU the reader of this are letting your own very wise
consciousness being cheated and duped in the same manner, how will you then 
understand
the level of problems this issue are creating?

I am talking a bout a real danger or problem here.
If many of the various Bailey groups continues to play the new World Servers
and Saviours, while using their Christian-like vocabulary and - then bad and 
jesuitic activities
might happen to various parts of The Middle East, (known by the 
Bailey-followers as a hybrid offshoot).
It is not only many of the Bailey groups, which are involved in promoting 
this problem.
Other groups in society and at UN level are also involved.

There are certainly "jesuitic" influences involved at the Bailey groups and 
their UN activities.

- - -

Carlos wrote:
"Some theosophists are so busy "being" saints, or  scholars,  that they 
can't think of anything else. "


A few rewritten words from a friends notes.

The role of a Guru

I take a guru or leader to be a sort of psychotherapist. At the very best, 
he keeps people quiet and
polarized around him and gives some sort of meaning to their lives.
Why shouldn't there be room for what we might call "neighborhood 
psychotherapy" - the community looking
after its own? However, why it should be called a spiritual activity rather 
baffles me.
Some are frankly phonies, and they don't try to hide it from me. They
think that I am one, too, so when we meet they begin the most disturbing
conversations. They want to know how I get money, how I control people, and
so on. But they feel safety in numbers. They actually feel there is 
something wrong
with what they are doing, and they feel better if they talk to somebody else 
who is doing it.
I always tell them that I think it would be much better if they gave up the 
guru role in
their own minds and realize that they are providing a perfectly good social
service.
And their general reaction to this advice?
Sometimes they laugh and sometimes they cry. The general impression is
that one of us is wrong. Because I don't make the same kind of noises that
they do, they seem to believe that either I am a lunatic or that I am
starting some new kind of con. Perhaps I have found a new racket.

I must tell you that I have not renounced the Eastern technique of
pretending to be interested in what another person is saying, even 
pretending
to be on his side. Therefore, I am able to draw out gurus and get them to
commit themselves to an extent that a Westerner, because of his conscience,
could not do. The Westerner would not allow certain things to go
unchallenged and would not trick, as it were, another person. So he doesn't
find out the truth.

People are always looking for leaders; that does not mean that
this is the time for a leader. The problems that a leader would be
able to resolve have not been identified. Nor does the clamor mean
that those who cry out are suitable followers. Most of the people who
demand a leader seem to have some baby's idea of what a leader
should do. The idea that a leader will walk in and we will all
recognize him and follow him and everybody will be happy strikes me
as a strangely immature atavism. Most of these people, I believe,
want not a leader but excitement. I doubt that those who cry the
loudest would obey a leader if there was one. Talk is cheap, and a
lot of the talk comes from millions of old washerwomen.
(Maybe the leaders at various theosophical groups would consider the above 
section.)

A theosophical teaching method is to be rude to people,
sometimes shouting them down or shooing them away, a technique that
is not customary in cultivated circles. By experience we know that by
giving a certain kind of shock to a person, we can-for a short period-
increase his perception.

We can't live in the world without being conditioned. Even the control
of one's bladder is conditioned. It is absurd to talk, as some do, of
deconditioned or nonconditioned people. But it is possible to see why
conditioning has taken place and why a person's beliefs become 
oversimplified.
Nobody is trying to abolish conditioning, merely to describe it, to make
it possible to change it, and also to see where it needs to operate, and
where it does not.

If you seek to use words, which are not labelling you as belonging to a 
sect,
you might come very far in helping your fellow human beings.

Instead of saying that Theosophy is a body of thought in which you believe 
certain things and don't
believe other things, we say that the theosophical experience has to be 
provoked in a
person. Once provoked, it becomes his own property, rather as a person
masters an art.
A great number of The various Bailey groups who continues to play the
new World Servers and Saviours, while using their Christian-like vocabulary 
are Not
provoking the theosophical experience. They are doing something else. They
use mantras about their very own Christ to justify their narrowminded belief 
in
that the religion of Islam is a hybrid offshoot of Christianity with the 
tinge of Judaism.

There are certainly jesuitic influences involved at the Bailey groups and 
their UN activities.




from
M. Sufilight with peace and love...

<<<<<<< A Sufilight saying >>>>>>>
We, the theosophists don't plan to form an organization with somebody at the 
top and others at the
bottom collecting money or wearing funny clothes or converting people
to theosophy. We view theosophy not as an ideology that molds people to the
right way of belief or action, but as an art or science that can
exert a beneficial influence on individuals or societies, in
accordance with the needs of those individuals and societies.
Instead of saying that Theosophy is a body of thought in which you believe 
certain things and don't
believe other things, we say that the theosophical experience has to be 
provoked in a
person. Once provoked, it becomes his own property, rather as a person
masters an art.
<<<<<<<>>>>>>>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "carlosaveline" <carlosaveline@terra.com.br>
To: "theos-talk" <theos-talk@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 3:33 PM
Subject: Theos-World Theosophy and the U. N.




Sufilight,


Thanks a lot for your commentaries.

I will tell you what I see in World Goddwil's ideas that is useful.

It is their premises, their starting point: the basic ideas that:

a) the esoteric movement can be conscious of its responsibility with the 
future of mankind;

b) that the future of m,ankind is bright, in spite of crisis.

It goes implicitly that as esotericists forget about their co-responsibility 
wirh regard to mankind, they get hypnotized by their own organizational or 
personal navels, so to say.

But as they emerge from personal mayas and think of mankind, their vision 
sight gets brighter.

This is the positive contribution I see in Alice Bailey's texts. And perhaps 
I should mention World Godwill's commitment to universal brotherhood, human 
rights  and the United Nations (as a long-term project).

As to their precise analysis, everone should make better ones !!

We should NOT leave themes as the future of mankind to persons like
George Walker or Bin Laden, if you know what I mean.

Some theosophists are so busy "being" saints, or  scholars,  that they can't 
think of anything else.

I hope I clarified. Goals, premises and principles are of the essence in 
Occultism.

Regards,    Carlos.




De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Cópia:

Data:Wed, 10 May 2006 23:10:42 +0200

Assunto:[Spam] Re: Theos-World Sufilight, Hitler and the U.N.

> Hallo Carlos and all,
>
> My views are:
>
> Allright I will write a more detailed e-mail.