Theos-Talk Archives (May 2006 Message tt00061)

Daniel,


Thanks a lot. 

There seems to be real progress, here (see below) .  Now you clarify you do NOT claim to be a Theosophist. 

That is honest of you and I thank you for that. This is one more thing you have in Common with Paul Johnson.  We still have to see about John Algeo -- who is the vice-president of the Adyar TS.  (I hope in the future he can be as sincere as you.)  

The next step, then  would be for you to have respect for HPB.

As you said, we can always hope.

Best regards,   Carlos. 

 



De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Cópia:

Data:Tue, 02 May 2006 21:11:50 -0000

Assunto:Theos-World Re: Daniel: Circulating Poison or False Dollars?

> Carlos,
> 
> Just three points, since I see no good reason to go over all
> of your prose.
> 
> You write:
> 
> =======================================================
> Editors are supposed to be responsible for the AUTHENTICITY of what 
> they publish. They are fired, and sued, if they publish lies. 
> Ask "The New York Times" about that.
> =======================================================
> 
> It's interesting that in the scholarly review of my book in
> THEOSOPHICAL HISTORY this point was not brought up.
> 
> Actually the reviewer thought I should have added more "negative" 
> accounts. I guess you can't please anyone! shucks :)
> 
> You also write:
> 
> ====================================================
> I hope you change your position for the better. It depends on you. 
> ====================================================
> 
> Golly, thanks Carlos you really show concern. Well, you can always
> continue to hope...........
> 
> Maybe I will just change my position for the worse just to be 
> contrary! :) Stop it Chuck!!
> 
> You also say:
> 
> =============================================================
> Paul Johnson, who says HPB was a fraud, at least does not pretend 
> to be a theosophist. 
> =============================================================
> 
> Does Paul say HPB was a fraud? 
> 
> Anyway, are you saying I'm pretending to be a theosophist?
> 
> I don't believe I have ever claimed to wear that label.
> 
> I think I may have said I was a student of Theosophy and especially 
> a student of H.P.B.'s life, work, writings and teachings.
> 
> Anyway end of my comments.
> 
> Daniel
> 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "carlosaveline" 
> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > Daniel,
> > 
> > Are you circulating false dollar bills, and "letting people to 
> decide for themselves"? 
> > 
> > And you warn them that the false dollar bills "might be false", 
> but this only at the end of your book, in those notes which rare 
> readers will look for... 
> > 
> > Do you work in a drugstore, and you put poison in the pills, and 
> then you add in very small letters that those pills "may be true, or 
> may be false"? 
> > 
> > Would any serious historian compile "false and true" texts by 
> famous authors? 
> > 
> > Would any museum of Art exhibit "false and authentic" Rembrandts, 
> or Picassos, so that "people can decide for themselves" ? 
> > 
> > I hope you can see the absolute lack of common sense of 
> circulating false dollars, or poison, or false works of art, or 
> false texts. 
> > 
> > Editors are supposed to be responsible for the AUTHENTICITY of 
> what they publish. They are fired, and sued, if they publish lies. 
> Ask "The New York Times" about that. 
> > 
> > If HPB were alive, she would likely try to put you to jail, 
> Daniel. This time no Theosophist would make her keep silent, 
> since the reasons to keep her silent in the 19th century (to protect 
> Masters names) do not exist any longer.
> > 
> > You are taking advantage of the fact that HPB is not alive, just 
> like Soloviof did. He waited for her death in order to publish his 
> own lies... While the Coulombs, well paid by the VATICAN -- 
> published their slanders while she was alive. 
> > 
> > I hope you change your position for the better. It depends on you. 
> > 
> > Paul Johnson, who says HPB was a fraud, at least does not pretend 
> to be a theosophist. 
> > 
> > Best regards, Carlos. 
> > 
> > 
> > De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > 
> > Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > 
> > Cópia:
> > 
> > Data:Tue, 02 May 2006 20:12:58 -0000
> > 
> > Assunto:Theos-World Carlos, sometimes I feel like I'm talking to a 
> wall
> > 
> > > Carlos,
> > > 
> > > I want readers to make up their own minds concerning
> > > what the Coulombs/Hodgson say. It looks like both you and I
> > > have made up our own minds and it looks like we both agree as
> > > to the "truthfulness/falsity" of what the Coulombs say.
> > > 
> > > And in my book and as I have quoted from it more than
> > > once, I warn the reader about the Coulomb material but
> > > how can they make up their own minds if they do not read at 
> least 
> > > some of the material?
> > > 
> > > Since I quoted in my book defenders and supporters of HPB writing
> > > about these Coulomb/Hodgson charges and even making comments
> > > about some of the charges, doesn't it make sense to quote at
> > > least some of the Coulomb/Hodgson material so the reader can
> > > see what some of the charges were, the context, etc.??
> > > 
> > > You seem so afraid to let readers read for themselves, think
> > > for themselves, and come to their own conclusions...
> > > 
> > > If some of the readers of my book come to the conclusion that
> > > what the Coulombs and Hodgson say is true, then so be it.
> > > 
> > > I certainly would DISagree with them on that point and if they
> > > contacted me I would try to show them why that conclusion is 
> wrong,
> > > at least in my opinion.
> > > 
> > > But these readers have a right to read the material, think about 
> it
> > > and come to whatever conclusion they do regardless of what you 
> or I 
> > > may think about it.
> > > 
> > > And I know a number of persons who have read the Coulomb book 
> and 
> > > the Hodgson report in their entirety and believe that Mme. 
> Blavatsky 
> > > was a fraud. 
> > > 
> > > I don't agree with their conclusions and I have from time to 
> time 
> > > tried to discuss with them why I think they are wrong, but these 
> > > people are entitled to their own opinions and conclusions 
> regardless 
> > > of what I may think or what you believe is true.
> > > 
> > > I see no good in further discussing this particular point with 
> you 
> > > since you continue to distort what my true position is by saying 
> I 
> > > circulate slanders and lies.
> > > 
> > > It is too bad that you seem compelled to see me as the enemy but 
> > > that is apparently your perception and you are entitled to it.
> > > 
> > > But I hope that at least some of the readers on this forum will 
> see 
> > > through the smoke screen of what your write. If not, too bad 
> > > because I cannot do other people's thinking for them. I have 
> enough 
> > > of a problem trying to do my own thinking!!!
> > > 
> > > Daniel
> > > http://hpb.cc
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > If that is what you call spreading lies and slanders then
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "carlosaveline" 
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > 
> > > > Daniel,
> > > > 
> > > > What I say about Leadbeater is based in his own writings, 
> properly 
> > > quoted with references, and in other ADYAR respected sources, 
> like 
> > > Mary Lutyens; and also on CWL's own confession as to abusing 
> > > children, quoted from Josephine Ranson's book of Adyar's 
> History. 
> > > > 
> > > > Please remember CWL was expelled by Olcott from the Adyar TS 
> > > because of his "teachings" to young children. No one denies 
> that. 
> > > Hecame back after Olcott died. 
> > > > 
> > > > On the other hand, the slanders and lies you have been 
> circulating 
> > > for years against HPB are "obviously spurious", to quote Radha 
> > > Burnier's letter to me. 
> > > > Radha does not belong to the ULT. She presides Adyar TS. 
> > > > 
> > > > No one says the Coulombs were more than criminal blackmailers 
> > > looking for money. If you would tell the truth about the 
> Coulombs, 
> > > you could not circulate their lies against the Masters, or 
> against 
> > > HPB. 
> > > > 
> > > > You keep ignoring the oceanic moral, intellectual, ethical and 
> > > spiritual difference between CWL and HPB.
> > > > 
> > > > I invite you to recognize facts. No more than that. 
> > > > 
> > > > Regards, Carlos. 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > > 
> > > > Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > > > 
> > > > Cópia:
> > > > 
> > > > Data:Mon, 01 May 2006 21:06:46 -0000
> > > > 
> > > > Assunto:Theos-World Carlos, a question for you
> > > > 
> > > > > Carlos, you write to me:
> > > > > 
> > > > > "I invite you to abandon lies, slanders, and any efforts to 
> sow
> > > > > division, doubts, skepticism and hatred among theosophists 
> and
> > > > > theosophical groups."
> > > > > 
> > > > > So when you have written all that you have about Leadbeater, 
> his
> > > > > activities and teachings and when you have written about 
> what 
> > > you 
> > > > > think Besant and Olcott did to Judge, are you telling us 
> that 
> > > you 
> > > > > don't consider any of that as an effort on your part "to sow 
> > > division, 
> > > > > doubts, skepticism and hatred among theosophists and 
> > > theosophical 
> > > > > groups"? 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Just trying to clarify your thinking as given in what you 
> wrote.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Daniel
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > E-mail classificado pelo Identificador de Spam Inteligente 
> Terra.
> > > > > Para alterar a categoria classificada, visite
> > > > > http://mail.terra.com.br/protected_email/imail/imail.cgi?
> > > 
> +_u=carlosaveline&_l=1,1146517677.622339.7694.alcuta.terra.com.br,351
> > > 2,Des15,Des15
> > > > > 
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> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > E-mail classificado pelo Identificador de Spam Inteligente Terra.
> > > Para alterar a categoria classificada, visite
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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