Theos-Talk Archives (April 2006 Message tt00606)

Actually I think quite highly of 
Mr. Crosbie.  I am thankful that
Mr. Crosbie founded both the ULT
and THEOSOPHY magazine.  That is
why I recommended that Kessinger
reprint the early volumes of THEOSOPHY
magazine.

I even bought a used copy of the
original Volume I of THEOSOPHY
magazine and sent it to Kessinger
and said here it is please reprint it.

See:

Theosophy Magazine:  Reprints of Volumes I-IV
http://blavatskyarchives.com/theosophymag.htm

I'm sure Carlos will view this as some kind
of an "attack"!!  :)

Or consider my "attack" here on the Theosophy Co.:

Recommended Blavatsky Books from the Theosophy Company
http://blavatskyarchives.com/theosohyco.htm

But it is true I can be critical of some of the
publications of the Theosophy Company.  For example:

Reprint of A Modern Panarion by the Theosophy Company
http://blavatskyarchives.com/modernpanarion.htm

But having said all of the above, is Carlos suggesting
that the independent student, the independent researcher
should just accept at face value any and all statements
made by Mr. Crosbie or about Mr. Crosbie?

Take this statement made in the pages of Theosophy magazine
after Crosbie died:

"Robert Crosbie preserved unbroken the link of the Second [Esoteric] 
Section of the Theosophical Movement from the passing of Mr. Judge 
in 1896, and in 1907 - just eleven years later - made that link once 
more Four Square amongst men. In the year 1909 the Third Section was 
restored by the formation of the United Lodge of 
Theosophists....There is always one Witness on the scene. After the 
death of Mr Judge, Robert Crosbie kept the link unbroken."
Theosophy magazine, August, 1919.

Now is this a factual statement?  Should we just beleive it
because it is in THEOSOPHY magazine?  

Did Mr. Crosbie really keep the link unbroken?  And how do the 
writers know that?

Dr. Stokes who was a frank commentator on Theosophicl history had 
some interesting comments on this statement.  I will try to find 
them and post them later.

But exactly what was Mr. Crosbie doing between 1896 when Judge died 
and for most of the years up to 1907.  Well, readers might want to 
know that Mr. Crosbie was basically defending and promoting Mrs. 
Tingley and her claims to be the unbroken link after Judge died.

Read Mr. Crosbie's own words:

Robert Crosbie on Katherine Tingley
http://blavatskyarchives.com/stokescrosbie.htm

Here is what Mr. Crosbie said as late as 1902:

=====================================================
". . . We who have the privilege of assembling at this place and 
taking part in this ceremony of sweet and grateful remembrance---
know that the establishment of this great Center [by Mrs. Tingley at 
Point Loma, California] is a realization of what William Q. Judge 
lived for, worked for, hoped for, and we cannot but feel deep in our 
hearts that he knows and rejoices with us today. 

We feel that he knows of the self-sacrificing efforts made by the 
faithful ones, and that those efforts have been called forth by his 
chosen successor [Mrs. Tingley], of whom he said, "she is true as 
steel, as clear as diamond, and as lasting as time."  

By her work has she [Mrs. Tingley] shown to all men her fitness to 
demonstrate the principles laid down by H.P. Blavatsky and W.Q. 
Judge, by making them practical in the daily life of mankind. 

Her [Mrs. Tingley's] work and our work stand today as an offering of 
gratitude and love to that noble soul and loving human heart, whom 
we knew as W.Q. Judge." 
========================================================

Notice what Mr. Crosbie said above in 1902 about Mrs. Tingley and 
Judge:

===================================================
We feel that he [Judge] knows of the self-sacrificing efforts made 
by the faithful ones, and that those efforts have been called forth 
by his chosen successor [Mrs. Tingley], of whom he said, [in 
his 'occult diary'] "she is true as steel, as clear as diamond, and 
as lasting as time."   
=======================================================

So did Mr. Crosbie know what he was talking about when he said this 
in 1902 or did he know what he was talking about when he totally 
reversed himself in a document written only 5 years later:

=====================================================
She tried of course in every way to change my determination, but 
finding me unchangeable, she let me go, and as I afterwards heard, 
gave out that she had sent me away for "bad conduct" - just what I 
do not know.  This of course, to "save her own face" as the Chinese 
say. I am quite will aware of her capacities in the above direction 
form the history of others who had discovered her real character, 
and left; there is no slander too low or mean for her to use in such 
cases to justify herself. Sorry as I am to say it, such is the 
character of Katherine Tingley, the Leader of the Theosophical 
Movement Throughout the World, as she styles herself - (there is 
more of it that is simply too nauseating to write.) It was a hard 
schooling for me, but it had its good uses and effects. I feel no 
enmity towards her; I truly pity her and would help her do right any 
time it might be in my power. I also feel most deeply towards those 
who are held in mental bondage by her; but nothing can be done - 
they must open their own eyes, they mare not in a condition to have 
them opened by anyone else.
=====================================================

Some serious students of Blavatsky and Tingley have suggested that 
this shows he became a "victim" of pledge-fever.  He took a pledge 
to Mrs. Tingley in 1897 which reads:

======================================================
"I . . . recognizing the person called Purple [Mrs. Tingley] as 
being the agent of the Master I serve . . . do hereby unreservedly 
pledge myself, by my Higher Self, to unquestioning loyalty, devotion 
and obedience to her and to her support and defence as such agent, 
under any and all circumstances and conditions to the extent of my 
available means, utmost exertion, and with my life if need be. . . . 

So Help me my Higher Self. 

(Signed) Robert Crosbie 

Witness my hand, this 22d day of May, Eighteen hundred and Ninety-
seven." 
======================================================

Some students say that he "failed" and as a result of that failure, 
turned against Mrs. Tingley.

I am not saying I believe this or disbelieve it.

And I am NOT suggesting that Mr. Crosbie was insincere when he 
supported Mrs. Tingley or that he was insincere when he rejected her 
claims.  He may have believed whatever he said and when he said it 
and, of course, persons have the right to change their minds.

But if one can question statements made by Mrs. Besant, Mr. 
Leadbeater, Mrs. Tingley, Mrs. Bailey then why not Mr. Crosbie?

They may have all been sincere in their pronouncements but all of 
them or some of them may have been equally wrong or deluded.

Remember what the Masters said about various individuals and ask if 
these statements might have some applications to later individuals:

------------------------------------

"[Rai Salig Ram is] — a truly good man — yet a devotee of another 
error. Not his guru's voice — his own. The voice of a pure, 
unselfish, earnest soul, absorbed in misguided, misdirected 
mysticism."
------------------------------------

"You have scarcely learned the elements of self-control in 
psychism. . . . Your vivid creative fancy [imagination] evokes 
illusive Gurus and chelas, and puts into their mouths words coined 
the instant before in the mint of your mind, unknown to yourself. 
The false appears as real, as the true, and you have no exact method 
of detection, since you are yet prone to force your communications 
to agree with your preconceptions...."  
-------------------------------

". . . So is Jesus and John the Baptist [clearly visible and 
audible] to Edward Maitland; [who is] as true and as honest and 
sincere as S.M. . . . And does not E. Maitland see Hermes the first 
and second and Elijah, etc." 

"Finally does not Mrs. [Anna] Kingsford feel as sure as S.M. with 
regard to ... [Imperator] that she saw and conversed with 
God!! . . . And who purer or more truthful than that woman or 
Maitland!"

"Mystery, mystery will you exclaim. IGNORANCE we answer; the 
creation of that we believe in and want to see. . . . " 
----------------------------------------------------

Whether these statements might also be applied to some of the later 
individuals, such as Mrs. Besant or Mr. Leadbeater or Mrs. Tingley 
or Mr. Crosbie, I would suggest that the thoughtful independent 
student who wants to think thru the issues for himself (herself) and 
not just naively accept what any theosophical group might promote, 
would carefully consider all of this.  Whether he can come to any 
certain decision or not is left for each student to decide.

And if the ULT in its archives has relevant documents that will 
throw additional light on this subject, then I encourage the ULT to 
release those documents for independent researchers.  And I applaud 
Carlos your call for the Adyar TS to release documents that would 
throw additional light on the Judge case.  Other archives should be 
encouraged to follow suit by allowing researchers and students to 
have access to relevant documents on Judge, Tingley and Crosbie.

No present day student who believes in the motto:  "There is no 
religion higher than Truth" could possibly object or fear the 
release of all relevant documents which will allow seekers of truth 
to understand better what all of these historical events were and 
what was true or not true.

Daniel
http://hpb.cc