Theos-Talk Archives (April 2006 Message tt00397)

Cass,

Thanks again. 

Philosophy students and  scholars say that Plato's Dialogues were exoteric, 
i. e., clearly public material.

Now, the Pythagorean texts Plato bought and from which he started to 
teach and to write, combining them with Socrates's teachings --  those Pythagorean texts were, indeed far more reserved, but they did not seem to have appeared at all!

So Plato's  Dialogues, and this is consensus among Historians of Philosophy, are not esoteric, were not reserved.  

There is even a semi-dramatization in them in an effort to turn them more popular, or easier to understand, etc.  If you want me to, I can bring you proper bibliographical references on that. 

But I do not think you got my point. 

What I say is that anyone can put the WORDS of the esoteric teachings of HPB in the Internet.  Yet WORDS are not the WISDOM.  Dead letter is not the spirit.  Vulgarizing WORDS scarcely transmits anything.  Recondite truths will remain recondite.  In that sense, also "The Secret Doctrine" has long and many "esoteric", or PRIVATE passages which only the right kind of LOOK can open to the mind.  The same happens to many another text by HPB, Plato, Plotinus, and so on. 

There is a proper way to study philosophy, esoterically or exoterically, and the proper way is by trying to live it, gradually and patiently. Then the doors of knowledge will open inch by inch. 

Throwing WORDS at people's face all at once will not help them get the truth in their hearts and minds.  And truth is not in the WORDS, though the words 
can POINT to the truth. 

This point is much beyond the question of having or not having PRIVATE texts. 

Of course, having PRIVATE texts is no guarantee, too. I have no corporative viewpoint, as esoteric wisdom is no corporate or bureaucratic theme, and it is not linked to "party lines". 

Best regards,  Carlos. 
 



De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com

Cópia:

Data:Tue, 18 Apr 2006 20:05:28 -0700 (PDT)

Assunto:Re: Theos-World Plato and Cass

> Dear Carlos
> I think you have missed the point I was trying to make. Yes, Plato's Timeaus was esoteric and still did not cause any souls to be lost through its publication.
> Cass
> 
> carlosaveline wrote: 
> 
> Dear Cass,
> 
> No writing by Plato was esoteric. Clearly so. 
> 
> His esoteric lessons -- as Historians of Philosophy report, did NOT go to paper, as long as it is known today. 
> 
> And they certainly did not go to the Internet either.
> 
> Always nice to talk about classical philosophy. 
> 
> Best regards, Carlos. 
> 
> 
> 
> De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> 
> Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> 
> C�pia:
> 
> Data:Mon, 17 Apr 2006 21:45:31 -0700 (PDT)
> 
> Assunto:Re: Theos-World Wisdom Is Not Just Words
> 
> > Carlos,
> > There didn't seem to be a problem when Plato's "Timeaus" was recorded for history, so why are you so concerned about internet access to HPB's talks on esotericism. Is this just for those who sit at the feet of Socrates? Even Socrates had his Diogenis
> > 
> > Cass 
> > 
> > carlosaveline wrote: 
> > Dear Friends,
> > 
> > Daniel Caldwell writes, in the text he mentions below: 
> > 
> > "Since I first published The Esoteric Papers of Madame Blavatsky in early 2005, students of the United Lodge of Theosophists 'tradition' have written to me 'protesting' that I should not have published these private papers which HPB had originally intended only for her esoteric school students. Some of these ULT students even believe that this publication is an 'injustice' to HPB and the Mahatmas and that I have also created 'bad' karma for myself." 
> > "I should also point out that some of these ULT students who have strongly objected to my publishing of HPB's esoteric papers have admitted to me that they also have access to these esoteric papers of H.P.B. and even read and study them. Therefore one might seriously ask: who has given permission to these present-day ULT students to read and study these esoteric papers which were originally published by H.P.B. decades before they were even born? "
> > My answer: 
> > I hope Daniel did not have to invent or fabricate those "ULT students" whom he says wrote to him "protesting". 
> > But Daniel entirely misses the point I am raising. 
> > I am not discussing here the publication of HPB's Esoteric Section papers. Boris de Zirkoff published them in the "Collected Writings", volume XII, and I have nothing to say here about such a publication. That is a more complex issue, which would have to be discussed in a proper way.
> > The point I am making here is that pouring HPB's Esoteric Papers into the Internet is a wild form of mental pollution. 
> > A serious and balanced editor must have some empathy and responsibility with regard to the texts he edits and publishes. 
> > It is obvious that putting information in the Internet is not the same as stimulating people's consciousness and conscience. 
> > Anyone who has respect for the wisdom tradition knows that information must be handled with care -- and not thrown out at people's faces just to show them "how much information you have". 
> > On the other hand, it is also important the way material is presented. 
> > Boris de Zirkoff published the Esoteric School Papers in a respectful way. One might discuss whether he should have published those papers or not -- but putting them in the internet is an entirely different thing, even if they have not been adulterated. 
> > We all know what is the Internet these says. How many "trollers" and liars circulate fake texts in the internet? Worldwide, police departments have to put more and more policemen in action to fight various kinds of internet criminals.
> > The main point, though, is to perceive the difference between WORDS and CONSCIOUSNESS.
> > Any irresponsible editor can copy texts and put them -- perhaps without altering them -- into the Internet. 
> > Only living Schools (either Esoteric or not) can preserve the SPIRIT which is beyond the DEAD LETTER. 
> > Human beings are still irreplaceable. Fortunately so.
> > Theosophy is not WORDS only. Words are but one of its many tools. 
> > Best regards, Carlos. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > De:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > 
> > Para:theos-talk@yahoogroups.com
> > 
> > C�pia:
> > 
> > Data:Mon, 17 Apr 2006 16:02:51 -0000
> > 
> > Assunto:Theos-World The Publication of HPB's Esoteric Papers
> > 
> > > The Publication of HPB's Esoteric Papers
> > > 
> > > See:
> > > 
> > > http://blavatskyarchives.com/moreonhpbesotericpapers.htm
> > > 
> > > Daniel
> > > http://hpb.cc
> > > 
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> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
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