Theos-Talk Archives (April 2006 Message tt00392)

OK, I guess what Moses' message was, one must eat the snake to gain wisdom.

Cass

Vincent <vblaz2004@sbcglobal.net> wrote: Cass-

It's not a point that I'm trying to make.  It's merely a biblical 
reference on the topic, from which people can draw their own 
conclusions.

Blessings

Vince

--- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, Cass Silva  wrote:
>
> Sorry Vincent,
> But I do not understand the point you are trying to make?
> Cass
> 
> Vincent  wrote: Numbers 21 
>  6 The LORD sent fiery serpents among the people and they bit the 
> people, so that many people of Israel died. 
>  7 So the people came to Moses and said, "We have sinned, because 
we 
> have spoken against the LORD and you; intercede with the LORD, 
that 
> He may remove the serpents from us." And Moses interceded for the 
> people. 
>  8 Then the LORD said to Moses, "Make a fiery serpent, and set it 
on 
> a standard; and it shall come about, that everyone who is bitten, 
> when he looks at it, he will live." 
>  9 And Moses made a bronze serpent and set it on the standard; and 
> it came about, that if a serpent bit any man, when he looked to 
the 
> bronze serpent, he lived. 
>  (NAS95)
> 
> 2 Kings 18 
>  1 Now it came about in the third year of Hoshea, the son of Elah 
> king of Israel, that Hezekiah the son of Ahaz king of Judah became 
> king. 
>  2 He was twenty-five years old when he became king, and he 
reigned 
> twenty-nine years in Jerusalem; and his mother's name was Abi the 
> daughter of Zechariah. 
>  3 He did right in the sight of the LORD, according to all that 
his 
> father David had done. 
>  4 He removed the high places and broke down the sacred pillars 
and 
> cut down the Asherah. He also broke in pieces the bronze serpent 
> that Moses had made, for until those days the sons of Israel 
burned 
> incense to it; and it was called Nehushtan. 
>  (NAS95)
> 
> --- In theos-talk@yahoogroups.com, "Kathy"  wrote:
> >
> > http://www.plim.org/2Luciferian.htm
> >  
> > Luciferian Worship: It's beginning in Serpent, Dragon, and Sun 
> Worship
> > By Dr. Lee Warren, B.A., D.D. & Edited by Dr. DeVita Brown, 
B.A., 
> D.D.
> > (c) 2000 PLIM REPORT, Vol. 9 #3
> > Feel free to copy and circulate this article for non-commercial
> > purposes provided the Web site and author are mentioned. 
> > See Related Articles in Esoteric Mysteries Revealed 
> > 
> > Introduction
> > When one speaks of Luciferian worship, the very idea comes as 
both 
> a
> > shock and an enigma for most people. Many people, especially
> > Christians, find it very hard to believe that someone would 
worship
> > Lucifer, the fallen angel, or Satan. Even non-religious people 
in 
> our
> > culture find Luciferian worship hard to swallow. Their attitude 
is
> > primarily shaped by the fact that we live in a largely Judeo-
> Christian
> > culture where Lucifer is anathema or an abomination being 
directly
> > opposed to God.
> > Most students of the Bible and Christian ministers do not 
> understand
> > the philosophy or the rationale for the worship of Lucifer 
because
> > they have a superficial understanding of ancient religious 
history 
> and
> > a total lack of understanding of the purpose of Elohim.
> > What is the intent of this article?
> > To understand the worship of Lucifer today and the rationale 
behind
> > it, an investigation of the ancient pagan religions' worship of
> > serpents and dragons must be undertaken. This worship existed 
> before
> > the formation of Israel. Obtaining knowledge of the pagan beliefs
> > gives an understanding of the Luciferian argument that Lucifer 
is 
> not
> > evil and points out their lack of understanding of the purpose of
> > Elohim. From this investigation it will be shown that Elohim 
> created
> > Israel to be the light for the Gentile nations because they were
> > walking in darkness spiritually.
> > Israel's purpose at first was to bring light to the pagans 
> concerning
> > the one Elohim (or true God) and then finally, the Messiah would 
> come
> > to bring light unto the world (Jn. 8:12). Thus, there are two
> > mysteries in operation, namely, the Mystery of Iniquity and the
> > Mystery of Righteousness both functioning through time, which 
> began in
> > the realm of eternity (Rom. 16:25; 2 Thess. 2:7).
> > These are some of the questions that this article will address.
> > Did pagans have a notion of Lucifer? 
> > How did the pagans perceive evil? 
> > How was the pagan perception of evil different from that of the
> > Israelites, the Messiah, and the Apostles? 
> > What meaning did the serpent, the dragon, and the sun have in 
pagan
> > culture? 
> > This article will not look at the aspect of Lucifer being 
> the "light
> > bearer" and/or "energy", due to space and the desire to remain 
> focused
> > on the topic. However, this article will center on the ancient
> > culture's worship of the serpent, the dragon, and the sun and 
will
> > show that they were worshipped in ignorance. In fact, the spirits
> > deceived the pagans into this false worship. Those that worship
> > Lucifer today use the historical worship of Lucifer as a
> > rationalization for their worship, which shows their gross
> > misunderstanding of the matter.
> > 
> > Was Lucifer always personified?
> > Today worshippers of Lucifer feel that he has received a "bum 
rap"
> > from Christians and Jews who personify him as evil. One of the 
most
> > quoted authorities on the subject is H. P. Blavatsky, who was the
> > founder of the Theosophical Society. Quoting from her book Secret
> > Doctrine (Theosophical Press), she explains the various ancient
> > culture views and philosophy of evil. She writes: "Antiquity 
knew 
> of
> > no isolated, thoroughly and absolute bad "god of evil." Pagan 
> thought
> > represented good and evil as twin brothers born of the same
> > mother�Nature�In the beginning the symbols of Good and Evil 
were 
> mere
> > abstraction Light and Darkness. This led to the primal [original]
> > twins, Osiris-Typhon, Ormazd-Ahriman, and finally Cain-Abel�
(Vol. 
> 1,
> > p. 412); �."
> > From this statement Good and Evil are believed to be co-equal and
> > consider twins. She further states that ancient philosophy
> > "�recognizing neither Good or Evil as a fundamental or 
independent
> > power, but starting from the Absolute All (universal Perfection
> > eternally), �(Vol. 1; p.73)."
> > She goes on to say that to "�every people except the Christian
> > nations, the Devil is to this day no worse an entity than the
> > opposites aspect in the dual nature of the so-called Creator. One
> > cannot claim God as the synthesis of the whole universe, as
> > Omnipresent and Omniscient and Infinite, and then divorce him 
from
> > evil. As there is far more evil than good in the world, it 
follows 
> on
> > logical grounds that either God must include evil, or stand as 
the
> > direct cause of it, or else surrender his claims to 
absoluteness. 
> ��
> > Indeed evil is but the antagonizing blind force in nature; it is
> > reaction, oppositions and contrast �evil for some, good for 
others
> > (Vol. 1; p. 413)."
> > H. P. Blavatsky states the following about the Christian
> > interpretation of evil. "It was left with the early and ignorant
> > Christian fathers to degrade the philosophical and highly 
> scientific
> > idea of this emblem (the Dragon) into absurd superstition called 
> the
> > "Devil." They took if from the Zoroastrian [Persian], who saw the
> > devils or the Evil in the Hindu Devas, and the word Evil thus 
> became
> > by double transmutation D'Evil in every tongue (Diabolos, Diable,
> > Diavolo, Teufeel)." From the above quotes one can began to 
> understand
> > the basis of evil in the ancient cultures.
> > Have many cultures worshipped serpents and dragons?
> > Historically, Luciferians point to the fact that the great 
ancient
> > civilizations worshipped serpents and dragons for thousand of 
> years,
> > along with the sun, before Moses and the prophets wrote the Old 
> Testament.
> > Quoting the book Secret Doctrine by H. P. Blavatsky, it states 
that
> > worship of the dragon and the sun were universal on the 
earthplane.
> > "The tradition of the Dragon and the Sun is echoed in every part 
of
> > the world.�There was a time when the four parts of the world 
were
> > covered with the temples sacred to the Sun and the Dragon: but 
the
> > cult is now preserved mostly in China and the Buddhist countries 
> (p.
> > 378-9, V. II)." The dragon, however, is not the middle age 
concept 
> of
> > a beast with wings breathing fire, but is, in reality, a snake.
> > 
> > The Gentiles at that time did not consider the beasts that they
> > worshipped evil, but were the symbols of wisdom, salvation and 
> eternal
> > life. In essence, the worshipers of Lucifer feel that 
Christendom 
> has
> > gotten the story backwards. The fallacy of this argument is that 
> the
> > Gentile nations attributed all the qualities of Elohim to beasts.
> > Hence, to the ancient peoples the serpent became the embodiment 
of
> > wisdom and life, and through their cultural view was not 
> inherently evil.
> > Do people worship Lucifer today?
> > Primarily many powerful secret societies, such as the Freemasons 
> and
> > other organizations, continue the worship of Lucifer today in the
> > western Christian culture . In most cases Lucifer worship is 
hidden
> > from the public to avoid their adverse reaction. Here are a few 
> quotes
> > from the writings of the Freemasons that illustrate their belief 
> in a
> > "Light" or "Light-bearer", and that "Light" is Lucifer. However, 
> this
> > mystery is revealed only to the masons of the 30th degree and 
> above.
> > Albert Pike wrote in his classic book Morals and Dogma (The 
Supreme
> > Council of the Southern Jurisdictions, A. A. S. R., USA), which 
is
> > mandatory reading for all masons of certain degrees, the 
> following.:
> > `LUCIFER, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give 
to 
> the
> > spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the morning! Is It he who
> > bears the Light. ... ? Doubt it not (p. 321)!"
> > It should be noted that many of the world elitists that believe 
in 
> the
> > New World Order are Luciferian. In fact most of the world 
leaders 
> for
> > the last two thousand years believed in various forms of magic 
and 
> the
> > occult. Christianity was just a front for these people, but you 
> will
> > not find this fact in your history books or lessons taught in 
> school.
> > The book The Occult Conspiracy by Michael Howard (Destiny Books 
> �1989)
> > said that "�many of the famous historical personalities of the 
last
> > 2,000 years, including statesmen, politicians, religious leaders 
> and
> > royalty, were actively involved in the occult, mysticism and 
> magical
> > practices. In addition it will show that many of the major 
> historical
> > events of the period have a hidden significance which can only be
> > explained in terms of an occult conspiracy. The revealing of this
> > conspiracy is integral to any true understanding of world 
history 
> and
> > the development of Western civilization because of its wide-
ranging
> > and far-reaching influence."
> > Did the devil trick the Gentiles?
> > The great Mystery is that the Gentile nations were seduced into
> > believing that they were intercoursing with Gods or righteous 
> angels
> > (Spirits) of Elohim, but in reality they were communing with 
fallen
> > angels (or evil spirits). This occurred according to the purpose 
of
> > Elohim. Darkness was allowed to reign first, then afterward the 
> light
> > was manifest to over throw it. This pattern ties in beautifully 
> with
> > the account in Genesis that states there was darkness that 
covered 
> the
> > face of the earth first, before Elohim brought about the light 
(Gn.
> > 1:1-2).
> > The worship of the Dragon, Serpents, and the Sun are as old as 
time
> > and can be traced throughout pagan history. It began at Babylon,
> > continued in Egypt, and was a part of many great nations, i.e.-
> > Persia, Egypt, Greece, and the Incas in the Americas, to name a 
> few.
> > What is the Biblical perspective of Lucifer as the serpent and 
> dragon?
> > One of the most important points that must be understood in the
> > beginning of this investigation is that there are events in 
history
> > that forever change the way one perceives and performs things. 
For
> > example, inventions such as the airplane, automobile, radio, TV,
> > printing press, and computer, forever changed travel and 
> communication.
> > Likewise, the Law of Yahweh given to Moses, the Israelites led by
> > Yahweh, and the coming of Yahshua the Messiah and His Apostles 
led 
> by
> > the Holy Spirit, forever changed the way mankind viewed their 
> Heavenly
> > Father. These Elohim initiated changes brought an increase in
> > mankind's understanding of their creator.
> > Under the pagan system all types of idols were worshipped. The
> > predominant form of worship was toward the Sun, the serpent, and 
> the
> > Dragon. All the attributes of Yahweh were attributed to these 
> idols.
> > Elohim revealed to Israel that He was the only Creator and there 
> was
> > no other God (Deu. 6:4; Isa 42:8). This revelation established
> > monotheism among mankind by demonstrating Elohim's power through 
> His
> > people Israel, via the miraculous overthrowing of Egypt.
> > The death of Pharaoh, his son, and his city changed the dominant 
> pagan
> > mindset of the period.
> > Did the pagans think serpents and dragons symbolized evil?
> > The pagans in the most advanced nations, like Egypt and Babylon, 
> did
> > not perceive serpents and dragons as evil, especially as they 
were
> > portrayed in the Torah (First five books of the Old Testament by
> > Moses) and later in the prophets. Moses was the first person to
> > describe the Archangel Lucifer as the "serpent."
> > He wrote the book of Genesis as the result of a vision he had 
atop 
> Mt.
> > Sinai, "Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the 
> field,
> > which the LORD God had made. � (Gen. 3:1)" Clearly, Moses 
> associated
> > the serpent with Lucifer or the Devil (a fallen angel), created 
by
> > Elohim ( the Word or Son), as was the rest of the angelic 
creation.
> > Isaiah, the prophet, first used the word "Lucifer" in describing 
> the
> > King of Babylon. He wrote, "How art thou fallen from heaven, O
> > Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground,
> > which didst weaken the nations (Isa. 14:12)!" [It should be 
noted 
> that
> > the word "Lucifer" does not appear in most versions of the 
Bible, 
> only
> > in the King James Version and the Living Bible. Other versions 
> called
> > him Light bearer, morning star, etc.]
> > Now the word "dragon" was also associated with a man, for 
Ezekiel 
> the
> > prophet wrote that Yahweh described the king of Egypt as 
> a "dragon."
> > He wrote: "Speak, and say, Thus saith Yahweh Elohim; Behold, I am
> > against thee, Pharaoh king of Egypt, the great dragon that lieth 
in
> > the midst of his rivers, which hath said, My river is mine own, 
> and I
> > have made it for myself (Ezek 29:3)." [ Note: The "dragon" of the
> > ancient world was a "serpent" as the book Secret Doctrine point 
> out.]
> > Now in the book of Revelation from the King James Version of the
> > Bible, the Apostle John confirmed Moses' vision, for he 
associated 
> an
> > angel with the dragon and the serpent, which was the result of 
the
> > vision he received on the Isle of Patmos in AD 96. He 
wrote: "And 
> the
> > great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, 
and
> > Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: �(Rev 12:9)."
> > The point being made here is that in the Hebrew scriptures 
Lucifer 
> was
> > identified as the cause of the rebellion in heaven and the evil 
in 
> the
> > earth plane. He is symbolically described as the dragon, the 
> serpent,
> > and the Son of the Morning. This was contrary to the belief 
system 
> of
> > this pagan era, because for them the Dragon and Serpent were
> > universally worshiped as signs of wisdom. This will be further 
> drawn
> > out later in this article.
> > Did the Gentiles worship serpents and dragons?
> > Ancient idols throughout the world and the ancient writings of 
> these
> > civilizations furnish irrefutable proof that they worshipped the
> > dragon, serpents, and the sun. These idols were universally 
> worshipped
> > as symbols of wisdom.
> > In her book H. P. Blavatsky Isis Unveiled (Theosophical Press) 
she
> > writes the following concerning serpent worship of 
antiquity. "From
> > the remotest antiquity the serpent was held by every people in 
the
> > greatest veneration, as the embodiment of Divine wisdom and the 
> symbol
> > of spirit, �" She goes on to say that the Egyptian god Thoth 
or 
> Hermes
> > were the first to attribute a spiritual quality to serpents. "�
> Hermes
> > or Thoth who was the first to regard the serpent as "the most
> > spirit-like of all the reptiles"; � (Vol. II, p. 489)."
> > She goes on to say that in her research in antiquity it is 
unclear 
> as
> > to why man worshiped the serpent. "The student of mythology 
knows 
> that
> > certain ideas were associated by the peoples of antiquity with 
the
> > serpent, and that it was the favorite symbol of particular 
deities;
> > but why that animal rather than any other was chosen for the 
> purpose
> > is yet uncertain (Vol. II, p. 489)."
> > The book The Two Babylons (Loizeaux Brothers) by Rev. Alexander 
> Hislop
> > confirmed that the Egyptian deity Thoth was the source of serpent
> > worship and it was used in various sacred rites. He quotes an 
> ancient
> > Phoenician writer who was alive during the time of Joshua. "Thoth
> > first attributed something of the divine nature to the serpent 
and 
> the
> > serpent tribe, in which he was followed by the Phoenicians and
> > Egyptians. For this animal was esteemed by him to be the most
> > spiritual of all the reptiles, and of a FIERY nature, inasmuch 
as 
> it
> > exhibits an incredible celerity, moving by its spirit, without 
> either
> > hands or feet. Moreover, it is long-lived, and has the quality of
> > RENEWING ITS YOUTH as. Thoth has laid down in the sacred books; 
> upon
> > which accounts this animal was introduced in the sacred rites and
> > Mysteries (p. 227)."
> > Did the symbol of the serpent represent the sun in paganism?
> > The book The Two Babylons stated that the worship of the serpent 
> was
> > always universally associated with the sun. Quoting Rev. A. 
Hislop:
> > "Along with the sun, as the great fire-god, and, in due time,
> > identified with him, was the serpent worshipped. � In the 
> mythology of
> > the primitive world� the serpent is universally the symbol of 
the 
> sun.
> > "In Egypt, one of the commonest symbols of the sun, or sun-god, 
is 
> a
> > disc with a serpent around it (p. 227)."
> > Rev. A. Hislop goes on to show how the ancients associated the 
> snake
> > with the sun. "The original reason of that identification seems 
> just
> > to have been that, as the sun was the great enlightener of the
> > physical world, so the serpent was held to have been the great
> > enlightener of the spiritual, by giving mankind the "knowledge 
of 
> good
> > and evil." (p. 227)"
> > Were the original inhabitants of the Americas serpent 
worshippers?
> > The earth is full of monuments built to serpents. For example, 
most
> > Americans are startled to discover that the indigenous 
inhabitants 
> of
> > the New World, the American Indians, were serpent worshippers. 
> There
> > are numerous serpent mounds and carved stones of snakes 
throughout 
> the
> > Americas.
> > Bill Still in his book New World Order: The Ancient Plan of 
Secret
> > Societies shows that America was called initially "The Land of 
the
> > Plumed Serpents" by the Indians of Peru. James Pyrse researched 
an
> > article written in the Theosophical Society magazine entitled 
> Lucifer,
> > which gave insight into the word "America."
> > James Pyrse says that the chief god of the Mayan Indians in 
Central
> > America was Quettzalcoatl. In Peru this god was called Amaru and 
> the
> > territory known as Amaruca. Now he states: "Amaruca is literally
> > translated "Land of the Plumed Serpents (p. 45)." He claims that 

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